Education or working opinions.

I am looking for a little adivce from someone older and wiser than I. I have been attending college with the intention of teaching. However, we are buying a farm and I have been farming the last 7 years, upwards of 900 acres total hay/pasture/row crop this year. I have a job inteview next week to take a 3rd shift job. This would give me more afternoon/evening time to harvest and hay as well as providing a more comfortable monthly income for our household. So here is the question, do I take the job or finish school? Keep in mind there are no education jobs around here, and in my heart I want to continue expanding our farm rather than teach.

Lots of questions only you can answer. Job skills from where ever you get them is always good but spending money on skills you won't use isn't valuble. I've always said job satisfaction is worth more than money and if farming is what you love then that is where I would start. Can you make a living on the type of farming you are doing. I can tell you working another job and running a farm is tough - my Dad did it for many years and it took years off his life.

My take as a person who worked for 25 years before going back to school to earn a college degree. Finish you education. Whether or not you ever teach, that little piece of paper will significantly enhance your chances of getting a reasonable paying job. Been there - done that.

GET THE DEGREE!!! SWMBO is a Human Resources director and having that on your resume counts. I put a crop in the ground for 40 years in-a-row and had cattle longer than that, but it's harder and harder to make a living by farming full-time.

I can certainly understand your dilema.

I'm 65...newly retired...and have wished many, many times that I had gone on and finished my education. I'll never know what opportunities never came my way. I've had/done mostly satisfying work.

An education can NEVER be taken away. Material things, etc. can be lost.

I look forward to hearing about you graduating sometime in the future.

Best of luck to you.

Rick

You will never regret not getting an education. My granfather had a degree and so does my father. Both logged and farmed for a living. My father finally took a job, but he still farms on the side. They also encourged me to get mine. And I am glad I did.

Get the education first of all. Maybe do both. Paul

That sorry to say is a no brainier. Education first then job. The more knowledge you have the better off you are in the long run. I know if I had a better education I might still be able to work but since I do not and all I know how to do is the hard work type of jobs it leaves me in trouble

By all means finish your degree! At first glance it may seem to be a waste of time and money since you don't plan on using it, but there are many more positive factors that come with a degree. You will have proven to yourself and others that you can stick to a goal and accomplish it....that is the biggy. A teaching degree is one of the most universal studies, and will build character, thought processes and social skills. It will give you a positive outlook on life, it will build your self esteem! I have a teaching degree (and three majors) and have never taught, but it has opened many doors for me in the last 30 years....go for it!

Finish school, around here a lot of farmers are school bus drivers, some teach also. One guy said his health insurance for entire family was less than $200.00 month thru county board of education, state and county both underwrite part of premium to get workers. School still has lots of good hours, summers off, time to work, guy down road is VoAg teacher, raises beef cattle and hay as well, Mark

I'm kind of suprised this question hasn't been asked yet: How close are you to graduation?

If you are withing a few months of graduation, absolutely finish your degree.

If you are several years away from finishing, you should ask youself why you are pursuing a degree that doesn't interest you and has no available jobs. A college degree is important, but so is not wasting money on the wrong one.

Good luck.

Saw a video about the musician Ramblin' Jack Elliott's career. When he was in highschool he ran away from home and joined in a traveling western/rodeo show. He said that an old cowboy gave him some pretty good advice:

"Go back to school and get your diploma. With an education under your belt you can be anything you want to be, INCLUDING a cowboy. If you don't go back to school, you'll never be nothin BUT a cowboy."

Finish school and take the teaching job. While school is in session it will eat into your evenings but imagine all the work you'll get done in June, July and August when you have the entire day.

My BIL farms about 800 acres and teaches school too. Now that he's about to retire (at age 55) he'll be able to farm full time while collecting his pension. He's the first to admit teaching pays pretty well and the benefits are more than he could have gotten anywhere else.

ERIK, I got a BSED in Ohio back in the seventies. Attended school on an ROTC scholarship intending to go to Nam. War ended before I graduated. Went into the Air Force. Flew fighters, taught guys how to dogfight in them. Got out and started flying for a small airline and now I am a Captain for a major airline here in America. Up until college I had never even touched an airplane. The ROTC Colonel who gave me the scholarship said, "Don't worry about your lack of flying experience. We can teach a monkey to fly." Guess he was right.
My Education degree opened up doors I never imagined or planned on. It got me out of the hills of Appalachia and around the world. FINISH SCHOOL!!!

Real Real good advice

Not going with the majority. If the goal is to farm full time before you are middle-aged and the job is reasonably tolerable with a good chance of continued employment (although personally I wouldn't work third shift, I'd seriously consider the job. I went the other route, got an education/good job and was able to retire early/comfortably and farm, but this would be tough to accomplish with the limited salary an education degree generally allows. Certainly delayed my return to farming, but also allowed me to accumulate the necessary assets and be debt free. However it appears you have already started on the desired farming career, so choose the path which most rapidly reaches your goal. An additional issue would be if the job paid benefits unless the wife provides them thru her employment. Also how does she feel about the issue, it would be a big plus if she supports the decision. Might not be too bad to teach high school vocational classes or possibly higher math and science, but I wouldn't consider coping with unruly kids in general education classes. If a community college teaching job is anticipated that looks more attractive.

I am 32 and was sort of in the same situation as you years ago, only not as big of a farm. I wanted to have a landscape'n buisness and went after a degree in horticulture. With a year left in school I figured out that the kind of folks who will spend the kind of money needed for me to make good money (around here anyway) in landscape'n are not the kind of folks I wanted to spend my life around. With a year left I had two hort. classes left I had to take and a bunch of ag electives. I took all my electives in beef science and a tobacco production class. Came home, put out a tobacco crop and started looking for a job. Bounced around a few places, found out that second shift and tobacco don't mix! Ended up on nights working for the local chicken factory, ended up not be'n able to put up them. 6 years ago I got a job as a water treatment operoator with a local city, now I turn river water into something a person can drink. I work 12 hour night shifts, 3 days one week, 4 the next so I can farm half the time. While I do not work in my field of study a change in the state regs about the time I started makes a person with a BS degree much more desireable and in turn I make pretty good money just because of my degree. I went a long way around to say that if you are any where close to get'n done with school, stick it out if you can. That degree can pay for it's self even if you are not in the class room. Unless this 3rd shift gig is one of them once in a life time really great jobs you know will provide good benefits and cash flow forever, I would say pass this one up and finish your degree.

Now I make good money at my night job and make good money sell'n freezer beef. The folks around here who want a Cadillac landscape'n job done on a Kia budget are glad to pay what ever I ask a half a steer, and all I have to do is meet them in the slaughter house parking lot and take their money after their steer is weighed.

This is the best advice I can give you with what I know about your situation, feel free to email me if there is more to it that you don't want made public.

Good luck in what ever you choose to do!

Dave

"Keep in mind there are no education jobs around here, and in my heart I want to continue expanding our farm rather than teach."

I think you answered your own question about what you want to do.

I've yet to hear a person proclaim with joy how they gave up a dream and chose to do what they didn't like to do instead.

Is it practical? Dunno. That's a different question. Same with "is it wise"? But you have made it quite clear what you want to do.

If you are far into your program of studies, complete it and graduate. If you are only a year or two in and have no desire to teach, then change your major and complete your education. To say there are no teaching positions available in your area may only be a temporary thing. Very few college grads are guaranteed to get a position in their field after graduation. It is always a risk. But getting your degree is a risk that pays off more often than not. I am a high school principal - to teach you must love children. But just as importantly, you must love knowledge, learning, and the passing on of tradition. Heck, everyone loves kids but not everyone can teach.

Education jobs are in the crapper--but so is farming. Today"s best be is in health care. I don"t mean being a doctor; just something in the health care fiels.

Common thread is get the BS before dropping higher education cause very difficult thing to return too in a few years. Most don't care what the degree is in just have the paper work in hand and the rest is lay up. In my case never did a face interview only college paper work and hired via the mail and retired 36 years later out 7 years with good health card for life. Don't tough the monkey and you will graduate from college them go for it.

Yes.. as other have said, finish the degree, for a variety of reasons.

One big reason to add that I didn"t see posted - most college programs have a limit on time away from school. Wife went through this when she went back. Usually after 10 years away from college, NONE OF YOUR OLD CREDITS OR EDUCATION APPLY. She already had a bachelors in communication but still had to take a full year of general credits for her new degree. These were classes she took, ACED ("cause I married smarter than me...) , and paid for 11 years prior.

Good luck.

i have a neighbor that is a full time teacher, physical education, coach, and some general classes. he also farms about 800 acres by himself. he is in his late 50's and can early retire next year. has full health insurance benefits and a teacher pension. altho the salary may not be that high, the benefit and retirement package is great, and he has the summers off, along with lots of holidays during the school year.

Is that bit about transfer credit specific to your institution?

When I gathered everything up for a degree about 10 years ago, all the classes I'd taken, some over 20 years ago, counted.

I am a technology Ed professor telling you to finish the degree. While you wait for the job to open (I wish I knew the discipline you are going to teach) Positions near are always more difficult. Volunteer to substitute, and get to do some part time volunteer work at the school you would like to teach in. Worming and warming your way into a position will work. It can work well with that farm!! Jim

Go for it now!

I'm 76, and I still take classes when time permits. You'd be surprised at how many you'll meet in class in your age group.

About ten years ago, I took a class in "Economics of the Health Care Industry". I needed a 400 level Economics class and this looked more interesting than traditional Econ where the prof fills the board with charts and graphs. It was a riot. The prof and I were both older than people the textbooks referred to as "the elderly".

I wish I would have finished some days.Several pretty easy office type jobs I could have had if I would have.I got offered a loan officer job at a small town bank a couple years ago and didn't take it(they didn't know I couldn't spell I guess).I don't want that type of job, but someday I might wish I had the option.

Finish school.Wish I had looking back now.It provides you a fall back option if farming full time doesn't pan out.There always will be a third shift job somewhere with your name on it if you need it.

Vito

No question about it in my opinion--finish school.

If a horrible accident took away your physical ability to farm you might still be able to teach in order to provide for your family.

FEW jobs these days don't require a college degree in some field whether related to the work or not.

I know many teachers. Get a speciality degree. Males are very nice to have in the elementary grades. Someone needs to go in to the boy's bathroom. English, Art, Band, PE, coaches, History degrees, Industrial Arts and AG are a dime a dozen. Math and Biology and about 25 cents a dozen. Chemistry, a little more expensive. Physics teachers are almost impossible to find. Special ED teachers, reading and speach teachers can usually find a job.

Here is the kicker, your first job will be your last job. Schools like to hire the cheap teachers, no experience. Try to move to a different county and get hired with a Masters and 10 years experience...good luck. That's why I said your first job will be your last. I know many teachers with experience that can't get back into the classroom without political pull.
LOL
George

Finish your degree! I graduated high school and went right into the full time work force. I've worked for the man since I was 14. I worked for a major cheese manufacturer for 20+ years and worked my way up to shift supervisor. After 20 years I got the shaft in a sleezy political move by the plant manager and resigned. While I was off work I interviewed with a few local industries. The interviewers all told me "we would love to have your on the floor experience, But without a degree we can't touch you". Luckly I was picked up by a petfood manufacturer quite in my line of training. I really enjoy what I do and who I work for. I more or less forced my 2 kids to go to college, one is at the 2 year mark and 1 graduates with a BS in May. They will have the advantage on me just by having " a degree".

I am going to fall on the side of finishing your education as well. That piece of paper is a credential that says you have the ability to stick to path and achieve a goal. It is a relatively small fraction of people that are actually employed in their field of study anymore, so the fact that you may not be able to find a teaching position only means that you have the credential to possibly open other doors.

Good Luck,

Kirk

Tough questions, and only you can make the decisions for yourself.

I trained to be a teacher in college, but got involved in a totally different career during my Senior year. I stayed in that career and ended up retired medically before I was 50. I got in on a truly wonderful pension system, with benefits much better than if I had a career in education. When I started in this other job, teaching jobs were pretty hard to come by, at least in the Spokane area where I choose to live.

I always wondered if I would have liked being a teacher more than the career (with many different assignments) that I had. I know people that have been teachers that would have chosen nothing else as a career. I also know people who have been teachers who hated it, and some who hated it more and more as the years built up, but they felt trapped by the nearly finished requirement to teach so many years to get a pension. There is a LOT more B.S. in being a teacher today than there was when I was in school 40+ years ago. You have to put up with lots of things that I wonder if I would have been able to tolerate.

In my state, a teacher can get a starting teacher job with a Bachelor's degree, but I believe that teachers are expected to get a Master's degree within so many years after starting teaching. That means Summer school or night classes for years--not so good for farming, or at least the farming I grew up doing.

Also, starting teacher pay is ridiculously low. Around here, it gets better over the years and with more education, but it never gets really high. Under the old system, the teacher's retirement was pretty good, but the current plan is not nearly as good or as secure.

I think if I was trying to make the decisions you are, I would do some research on how easy it is to get a teaching job in your field of expertise or interest within a reasonable commute to your property. You don't want to spend half of your life commuting--it just doesn't pay.

It also might depend somewhat on your family situation. If you have children, I will tell you that they don't get cheaper to raise as they grow older. And lots of young people today have debt from student loans or the dreaded credit cards. You will have to do what you have to do, whatever that is.

Lots of the posters have suggested finishing your degree, and that might be good advice. But maybe not. I would say that completing my degree never earned me a cent more than if I had never done it. Don't get me wrong--I had a great time in college and learned lots of interesting things while getting really good grades. But as far as earning me more money, in the life path I chose, it really didn't increase my money making. Maybe if I had done something else, but not what I did.
I probably would have been upset with myself if I had never finished my Bachelor's, since I was only one quarter from finishing it. But had I would have had to get a Master's for most of the jobs in my major.

As far as the shift work job, might it work into something that pays well, has advancement possibilities, and is fairly secure? In college, I had a friend who worked at a feed plant at night and went to school days. He now is general manager of that feed plant. I don't know if he ever finished his degree, or if he got more education to help get the management positions. But he never would have got there at all if he hadn't been working for the company.

I grew up in a farming community and lots of the people I went to high school with are at the time of their lives when they are thinking about retiring from farming. Not one of my friends has encouraged their kids to continue in farming, even the ones who farmed lots of acres. Instead, most of them have encouraged their kids to take other jobs or careers, and maybe help some with the farming. What will happen to their farms remains to be seen.

You sure wouldn't be the first farmer that had a "town job" to keep the farm going, if you choose that route.

Good luck, and I hope you make the decisions that are right for YOU and your family.

Farming is great but there ain't no money in it. It's a trade-off. independence for monetary wealth. And the American farmer is fast loosing his independence. My advice to young people is learn a 2nd language and take a hard look at options of farming on other continents.

I gave up on college to go to work. Got married, raised 2 kids, buried ny first wife, remarried, and continued to work until the plant closed. Couldn't find a comparable job, and had access to federal education benefits so I went back to school, transferred some of my old college credits, and had an associates degree in 18 months. Then I couldn't get a decent job because I was OVER-qualified. Now I'm over 55, and working for less than $9 an hour with no insurance and no benefits because nobody wants to hire you when you're over 50.

And you want to ask folks like ME for advice? MY advice: follow your heart, and be true to yourself. You'll sleep well at night. Forget about a "career"...saddle tree carvers and buggy whip makers used to think their "careers" would always be in demand, too.

Whatever job you choose, just remember this little ditty:

"Always do your job with plenty of vigor,
'Cause you can ALWAYS be replaced by some other....unfortunate soul." [Usually it's someone younger, and due to their lower level of experience, someone who will work cheaper.]

I beg to differ.

There's LOTS of money in farming; lots of farmers over the years put it there, and never got it back...so it MUST still be there.

Eric,

Go to the interview and make your decision after that. Learn what you can about the job and think about how it will compliment and conflict with your farming. You can turn still turn down the job if they make you an offer. Keep in mind that an employer will consider your job with his company your top and only priority. To him your farm will be "just another hobby" like fishing or hunting.

Is the job part-time or just for the off-season, like school, or is it full time year-round that it could conflict with farming.

Be very realistic about budgeting your time, and know for yourself when you need to be at your farm farming.

Is there enough time to do get everything done on the farm if you work from 11pm to 7:30am, get home at 8am after mom and the kids have left for work daycare and school, eat and wind down for an hour, get to bed at 9 am, sleep for only six hours, get up at 3pm, feed yourself and the kids when they get home from school or you get them home from daycare, farm from 5:30 to 10 pm after mom gets home from work, then go back to the house to cleanup eat and head off to work again? From November thru March that would probably work OK, April through October with 900 acres to farm could be rough.

Reading between the lines it sounds like you are very ambitious, but you maybe stretching yourself very thin to accomplish everything you've started (no offence intended). You have to know your household's priorities and do what supports that. You didn't mention your wife's situation and abilities. Is she working off-farm and already bringing home good pay and medical benefits for the family. Will she be able to go back to a good paying job after your kids are all in school, or will you need to keep your off-farm job for the benefits?

Have you already purchased the extra farmland and need to meet cash payments now or are you still in the planning stage? Commodity prices are very high now. Farmland has been relatively expensive for a a long time and it is still rising to way more than it can cash-flow out at normal prices ($3.00 corn, $5.00 beans). It may be more reasonable to buy land five to ten years from now. In the last big recession good farmland lost 75% of its value from the exuberant late 70's to the lows in the mid 80's. Your extension service should have annual records of land prices and commodity prices in your county.

If you're over halfway to completing your degree (and you're not flunking out) then just finish it. Take electives that fit your needs and interests (accounting, finance) or change your major and get "a degree" in something you're to you're interested in (business, farm management, etc.). A degree of any absolutly kind will make it easier for you to get off farm work at better pay throughout the rest of your life.

It's very hard to go back to school after you quit, most people find they can't go back even if they want to. TonyIN mentioned below that schools don't accept credits after they are a ten years old. Check into that with your school, it used to be courses were only accepted for just five to seven years after the class was completed. If you've been going to school part time the early classes are already a few years old. If you are a good student and you inform your proffessors about your situation at the beginning they are often very flexible to help you stay in their class.

Good luck whatever you decide, you'll do fine.

An education can not be reposed.

I would strongly urge you to finish your education. You love farming and you want to stay with that. I know several teachers who also farm. If the third job pays well with good benefits, you might consider on-line courses and complete your degree that way. But what ever you do, don't give up on completing your education. However, don't burn the candle at both ends. Dying young doesn't benefit anybody, especially your family. Best of luck to you.

Teaching has long been a good paying job with maximum benefits but that may soon change because every state in the union is in a financial mess and major spending cuts are going to be made, since education is usually more than half of the average state budget it is a good candidate for the axe. I don't know why there is so many nay-sayers on here claiming you can't make any money farming, everybody loves to poor mouth but farming is a business just like any other, hard work and careful planning pay off over time. Do what you want to do in this life because it ain't very long.

The responses are too windy to read so pardon if its been said. Why not be an Ag teacher. They are in demand. A fun job. Can work the farm after school spring and fall and cut hay all summer.

I agree... teaching jobs are thin. I know a few who are still searching for a job. But on the other hand. Do your farming.. yet take classes on a part time training. This way you have both ends covered..................Now a days you can take most classed on line...the internet. Hope this helped.

I'm not as old as some but older than many. My opinion is this. If you don't love it don't do it. Money ain't enough to keep you in a job you have NO passion for. Whatever you have a passion for you will succeed at because you will be better at it than someone who just does it for money or is burned out. Work won't be "work" and long hours spent will be satisfaction and not drudgery. If you love it you will do it better than anyone else and then the money is unlimited. I don't care if it is playing piano or playing golf. Farming the land or buying/selling land. The one sure thing about farming is there will always be a ready market for your product! People HAVE to eat! I'm serious , if you don't like it don't do it. It won't get any more "likeable" as years go by. Money made at a job you hate is the hardest dollars you will ever spend! Follow your passion!

If you leave school, you may never go back. If you truly want to teach, then go for it.

Thanks for all the replies. I will interview next week and see how things pan out.

After my post above , I finished reading all below and one big question comes to my mind. What makes all of you think he WANTS to punch a clock for someone else all his life??? The days of getting well off working for someone else are quickly dying. Most entrepaneurs succeeded because of an uncomprimising work ethic applied to their true passion. You only need degrees to work for someone else. Not saying you don't need to get educated , you do , but a degree is just a piece of paper required by Human Resources Dept to quallify you to make some other entrepaneur (who has no degree) rich. Our Fed and State Govt are experts at dangling the proverbial "carrot" out there because what would happen to all those empty billion $ buildings on our "fat" campuses if enrollment even dropped by 25%??? Why do you think Dow Chemical requires a BS just to be "considered" for a janitorial job? Entrepaneurs are what will save this country , clock punchers will be the wheels they ride on. Your choice.

I'd also try to finish your degree. I got out of HS in 1999 and was not going to go to college, maybe VO-TECH and become an electrician. Instead went to a state college in Industrial Technology Engineering. While is school, I started doing handyman work and odd jobs, later getting into accounts with multiple rent houses, then even later larger remodeling jobs. It took me almost 6 years to get a BS (party too much, work too much) but I did it in December 2004.

About a year later in 2005 my girlfriend (now wife) who took a computer programming job at a local manufacturing plant earlier in 2005 gave my resume to an engineer. I interviewed on an entry level engineering job and because of my "skills" wanted me to try multi-craft maintenance. I did and stayed about 5 years, making more than most of the engineers. The automation and robotics experience landed me a Process Control Engineer position at another local plant early 2010.

So if income for your family is important and you are not fed up with school, stay with it. I also play on my little 50 acre spread. As others have said, a degree, even if in another study will take you much farther than not having one. I cannot remember when I last made less than $20/hr and I'm only 30.

Good luck,
CT

I wouldn't be arrogant to give anybody "advice" on this subject. I will give my opinion though.

Teachers have been getting laid off all over the place. And . . . if any degree of fairness ever finds its way into State governments - teachers unions won't keep getting their way.

My point is - getting a four-year BA degree just to get started, then an internship, and then having to get your Master's in X-amount of time may not me worth it to you. That is totally up to you.

From my experience, much of what is required to get a BA in teaching is a farce and a waste of money. Like I said, just my opinion. And yes, a person who really wants to learn something usefull can choose more difficult course work.

I'll add . . don't believe the old story about "it's now or never." Many people do much better when they attend college when older. For myself, there is no way I could of sat in college classes when I was young. But, I found it easy when I was in my 40s. And, I was working two jobs at the same time. Same goes for a Masters degree - which is required in New York if you want to teach long-term. When I was young, I actually believed all teachers and college professors were geniuses. You'll probably feel a little differently, once you experience the working world first, and then got to "higher education." You'll discover some abundant-arts PhDs are smart enough, some are barely-functional idiots, and some even worse.