Marcellus shale: Ot But affects every one

What are your views on this?
I think the bad is if they drill down, and can drill sideways for a few miles that they are taking gas from already in place wells and may render them useless. kinda like pulling the plug and vacuuming it off the bottom probably to be sold to other Country's.

Did you read about drilling under the dead sea? Tel Aviv university doing this. Say not looking for oil, but what? Dave

The Marcellus shale debate is wide open in my county. The population in my county is split down the middle right now. Those that have or are going to lease their land and the ones that don't want them to drill.Things are getting pretty hot right now. We have no gas wells now, so there is not going to be any sucking someone elses well dry. The big argument here is the fracking, destroying the ground water,pollution,pumping the streams dry to get the frack water,destroying the beauty of the land and destroying the roads. The ones that don't want the drilling are trying to get an ordinance to stop the drilling and the landowners that have leased are trying to stop the ordinance. I really don't have a dog in the fight because I don't have enough land to lease an I don't think there will be any drilling very close to me. The state will also be working on tougher laws in the upcoming session. Time will tell.

Horizontal drilling and fracking is going to happen. NY and Pa would be better off spending their money of enforcement and remediation. There is too much big money involved for it not to come to pass.

Stories I've seen on fracking is it can frack up your under ground waters.

Well, there are a lot of misconceptions about this. Regardless of where you are, it always boils down to those who have the mineral rights are for it, those who don't have the mineral rights are opposed to it.
I've been following this forum for many years, and there is always a sentiment against those who want to obstruct the rest of us from enjoying our property rights. I see complaints when some outsider moves in and posts their land. When they complain about the smells or dust or traffic obstruction by tractors. When zoning boards force someone to move their "treasures" out of the front yards.
Mineral ownership is part of the private property rights we enjoy here in the US. When we don't like others telling us how to enjoy our surface land, the same arguement holds for how we choose to develop our mineral resources.
Here are a few things to consider:
1) If it were not for fracture stimulation of wells, you would be paying a lot more for natural gas, propane, and, to a lesser extent, for gasoline. Probaby the majority of all oil and gas wells in the US are frac'd, and almost every well drilled in the northeast (NY, PA, WV, OH, KY, VA) has to be frac'd to be economical. If fraccing were outlawed, US natural gas production will decrease because it will not be economic to drill new wells in many areas.
2) Fraccing of wells is nothing new. In many areas it started in the 50's and 60's. In Appalachia, it has been standard practice since then. Like all things in the US, we've gotten better at it and now we do much larger frac jobs.
3) what is a frac job? The permeability of the shale reservoir rock (the ability for fluids - gas, oil, and water - to flow through the rock) is very low. We mix up a slurry of special sand and water and pump it into the reservoir at very high pressures. It essentially cracks the rock and the sand props open the cracks. These sand filled cracks have much better permeability and allow the fluids to flow back to the well bore. We have to add special chemicals to viscosify the water, so it will carry the sand. But we also add viscosity breakers, so that the viscous frac water (about like maple syrup) turns back into regular viscosity water after a few hours and doesn't plug up the fractures it created. Most of the water flows back to the surface, where it is disposed of according to state regulations.
4) Drinking water occurs at relatively shallow depths. The deeper you go, the saltier the water gets. State regulations require special well casings to isolate the fresh water and prevent comtamination. It depends on where you are, but it is unlikely that you would want to drink the water from a water well once it gets below 1500 or 2000'. The formations that produce oil and gas are ususally much deeper. If a well has been properly cased and cemented (and inspected by the state, which they have the right to do), the chances of surface water contamination is very small. You are probably in more danger from the lead solder in the water pipes in your house.
5) what about the horizontal wells going out for miles and draining the gas? Well, all of the area around the well has to be held under a lease by the drillers of the well. In other words, all of the landowners in the unit or pooled acreage will share in the royalties from the production. Each state generally has rules regarding how much acreage is required around each well. Does this mean that all the gas from a well comes only from the acreage under lease around the well? Maybe. In some cases, yes, but in the case of better wells, sometimes some of the production can come from outside the unit or pool. What can you do to prevent being drained in this case? Drill your own well. We work under the law of capture. If it comes out of your well, and you have the legal rights to the acreage and a unit or pool that conforms to your state's requirements, then the oil or gas is yours.
6) what if you are only the surface owner and don't have the mineral rights? Sorry. You should have bought a place where you got the mineral rights also. You should have known that the mineral owner always has the right to exploit those minerals, even if it means drilling a well right in the middle of your hay pasture. The states have rules about how close you can drill to a house or other structure, or to a water well. Otherwise, it is hard for you to deny and deprive the mineral owner from enjoying the rights of ownership. Just be thankful they just want to drill a well and not strip mine for coal.
7) what about the problems you hear about, where people have problems with their well water? Like anything else man made, problems can occur. Some of these problems may be from old wells. It takes a lot of water to drill and frac a well. In many cases, the drilling company will drill a water well along side of the gas well to provide this water. The high withdraw rates from these water wells may be part of the problem, drawing in contaminants from old nearby gas wells where the casing has corroded or the cement job has failed. Many states require regular testing of these wells, and plugging of these wells if no longer producing. If you are concerned about this, I would recommend you have a water sample taken by a testing facility before any drilling takes place. Let them come out and take the sample, so that they can testify in court later on if required. It would be a lot easier to prove damages later on if you really know what changed. I grew up on well water that was barely fit to drink, it would have been nice if we could have blamed this on somebody other than mother nature.
8) I have a rancher friend that tells me that a mineral supplement is the most important thing for success in raising cattle. And an oil or gas well is the best mineral supplement he has found so far.

As with all things, I have greatly simplified things here. The laws and rules vary in each state. I am a petroleum engineer and originally from WV, but I don't have a dog in this fight.

Dave, they're interested in looking at 500,000 years of climate history, through the past 4 ice ages. A combined team from Israel, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Japan and the US. Plus PLA and Jordan representatives.

Fracking is a prospect in Israel, but in Elah Valley where David and Goliath had their meeting. Apart from destroying archeological sites and a lot of farms with a hundred or so 2 mile long trenches, the project would require "electrical power -- equivalent to half of Israel's entire national supply, plus millions of cubic feet of water in a country entering its worst drought in modern history".

Big argument there, as here. Fortunately, my aquifer is not at risk.

Roy If you owned land say 2000 acres, would you rather have a company come in and drill 3 wells on that land (640) or would you want a company drill 5+ wells on each 640 when they take up 3+ acres per well. When they drill Horizontal they lease the amount of acres for that unit..And for myself with owning no minerals, I had rather they put one location down and drill Horizontal, than a whole bunch of straight holes and yes they are going to put it where they want to..As fracking goes they used to pump high pressure fluid down and then use marbles to keep the formation open..the argument about fracking ruining the water supply, around here they go down 2 to 3 miles deep and all you get is salt water...Good water here is about 400 to 600 ft..The town no nothings try to run the country..Tell then to get off their b+tt and work in or around the OIL FIELD....MAY GOD BLESS THIS USA

Thanks to Dan. That is about as good as a short explaination can get. This is no different than some one farming their own land...cut down trees to farm may hurt wild life; may raise dust to bother the neibors, makes noise, may dry up the creek, and on and on, But it is his property to do what he wants with it with in the law. To pass a wide spread law against drilling or fracking would be no diferent then outlawing tilling the soil or telling some one how to farm or use their own property.

In regard to your comment . .

" those who have the mineral rights are for it, those who don't have the mineral rights are opposed to it."

That can't be universally true, since I have full mineral rights on properties in central NY and northern MI and am not for the fracking-process ascurrently being done. The workers had to skip my properties along with a few other owners who also did not go for it. Funny thing in northern Michigan is . . . when they were actively promoting it - they mentioned all the new possible jobs. When the workers came, they are all from Texas and most that I met are Mexican and barely speak English.

I'm not at all against energy exploration and conservation at the same time. I am not for simply trying to exploit every resource until gone, while we waste or risk others valuable resources - e.g. clean ground water. I also do not blindly trust the companies doing the work who refuse to provide information about the chemicals they want to inject into the deep.

JD, you are correct that I have over-simplifed the situation, and there are some landowners who have chosen not to allow frac jobs. So in that case I assume you were approached to lease your mineral rights, and you refused since the lessee would not agree not to frac the well(s) that may have been drilled. So you exercised your property rights over your property. No problem with that at all.
As for the workers, the seismic and drill crews were probably from Texas. We're good at it down here, so that should be expected. But the Texas crews stayed in your hotels and ate at your resturants, and local guys will be looking after those wells for years to come. And the production from those wells will get taxed by the state and also the local property tax district, so the wells do help the local economy.

I might be partially wrong, but I think many of the workers "camped" near my place in northern Michigan. The company doing the siesmic mapping leased a big chunk of farm land. They set up a bunch of campers there along with a helicopter landing site, equipment storarge, etc. They were running cables across roads all summer long and I came across many helicopter "drop bags" in deep woods. Not sure what was in them, but it amazed me that the stuff was just laying around, un-attended.

JD, I respect your view. That's your right. Course that brings up the point that your staying out may stop the drilling on property around you (pooling) and make some very angry ex-friends. All I can say to that is tough for them--its your right. My big objection is blanket laws for every one in the name of "do good". We see it all the time involving other things.

marcellus drilling is proceeding within 30 miles south of me in pennsylvania. there haven't been the "end of civilization" events that some would have you believe. the water that was drinkable before drilling is still drinkable. roads that were damaged by drilling activity have been/ or will be repaired better than they were before. businesses and school districts are doing very well.
the marcellus hasn't been drilled until recently, so interference in other wells is not too likely.

I am all for drilling for gas. There is a lot of misinformation out there that scares alot of people. Drilling when done in a responsable manner will have very little effect on the enviroment. Yes accidents happen. I had a gas lease with Encana. They drilled two test wells in our consortium acres and said they came up empty so they are canceling our leases. About 25,000 acres in all.

According to Penn State university there is gas below the Marcellus shale that may come in to play. Range Resorces has already done some testing on this.