Kero and diesel?

Just thought about asking who still adds kero to there diesel fuel for the winter? I guess My father in law hasent learned yet still, that adding kero does nothing to protect against water in the fuel. 2 years ago his tractor died when I was plowing snow for him with it. Apparently there was a layer of ice in the tank, when I poured in fuel, after 2 gallons it over flowed. The fuel couldent get to the bottom of the tank because of the ice. After that I left the tractor there, his problem not mine, My tractors run fine, with power service conditioner, and never used kero. He thinks the tractors crank over easier with kero???? Not true. Anyway I asked him last knight if he added any conditioner to his tractors and he said no, I added Kerosene... I guess you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make her drink it.!

I add kero to the #2 in the one tractor that I run regularly in the winter. I may be wrong but it is my understanding that #2 will start to turn to wax at around 15 degrees, and we know that #1 has a significantly lower wax temp. That being said I still add the PS to everything that is going to run at all in the winter. In addition of course the water needs to be drained from the separators in the fall.

kero wont do anything for water but conditioners wont do much for gelling wait for the - temp days and you will that the one without a winter mix or kero mixed in will gell and you wont be doing much when you got to use them everyday its best to add a conditioner and a some kero

Power service prevents fuel from waxing and gelling, theres no need to add kero. I never add kero, never had fuel gel up, and it gets cold here!

Ice would have been on the bottom of the tank.
What you had was parifin wax. Adding kerosene before the fuel gets that cold would eliminate that problem. T.K.

That makes sense as water is lighter than fuel, I know he adds the kero in the fall before we get to freezing. So maybe it was wax, I wasent there when he had to fix it.

jay...you might wanna double check your info since the new fuel came out. now the fuel companies warn that adding too much additive actually brings the jell point up instead of down. Just came from a fuel meeting where they didn't have anything that works besides number 1 fuel. It has to be mixed before it gets cold or its a waste of time.

Your father-in-law may be correct. It depends on what diessel fuel he's using and what kerosene he's using.

Low-sulfur diesel and low-sulfur kerosene behave differently when it comes to gelling in cold weather.

As to you not having problems - kind of hard to interpret unless you actually know exacty what your fuel is - what mix of "winter-grade" and what extras your supplier might be putting in before you buy it. Also, what micron-size your filter system is and how well your tractor or truck warms fuel as it runs.

#2 untreated diesel high-sulfur fuel starts to gel at 16 degrees F above zero.

High-sulfur kerosene or #1 diesel is much more cold-tolerant.

For every 10% standard (high suflur) kerosene you add to #2 diesel, you lower the cloud point by 5 degrees F.

For very 10% low- suflur kerosene you add to #2 diesel, you only lower the cloud point by 2 degrees F.

Much of the ultra-low sulfur fuel being used now (winter mix) will start to gel at 0-5 degrees F if it stays that cold steady for three days straight. That doesn't happen often in much of NY. Below zero at nights and above zero during the day is the norm.

20-30 years ago, diesel fuel in central and northern NY was routinely mixed from 30-70 to 50-50 with kerosene/diesel from the suppliers. So, I assume some customers didn't even know they were using it. Now- medium and low sulfur fuel has many additives put into it before it leaves the suppliers truck - so many of us still don't really know what is in our diesel fuel.

And besides the fuel gel point, many newer diesels are using finer filters that also changes things.

I use home heating oil in my tractors, same as him red fuel, tax exempt, bought in the summer. Ya kero cant hurt, but he could just use conditioner and forget about buying, transporting, and lifting a can of kero up to pour it into the tractor.

You probably can't hardly find high-sulfur kerosene anymore, and the low-sulfur kerosene does not protect anywhere near as well against gelling.

Straight high-sulfur heating oil responds very well to anti-gel additives like the white-bottle Power Service. Ultra-low sulfur diesel does not respond near as well.

I would not even consider heading out on the road though on a long trip, without more protection. A truck circuates semi-warmed fuel back to the tank, so once running awhile, gelling usually isn't an issue. The problem is more common when you've got to park overnight(or more) somewhere and the fuel gets good and cold.

My supplier where I buy my heating oil says it is aleady mixed 10% kerosene and 90% #2 diesel (winter blend). Anything more then that, the customer has to pay extra for.

Ya, thats proabaly what were getting, high sulfur furnance oil, not enhanched on road diesel the green stuff. We are useing it in tractors, not trucks. I use on road pump diesel in my truck with power service conditioner and it has been fine too. As you must know you "cant" if you want you can, run kero in a on road vechile. The pump hoses around here are really short, and you have to sign a paper with a name and address. I like to scribble things like Joe Blow, Kid Rock, ect, its such a joke, you can fill your can, sign, then go home and pour it into your truck, or car if you want to.

I have a 1650 Oliver diesel that I bought a few years ago that I have an 8' dozer blade on the front of, and a box blade on the back of, chained up, to clear snow in the winter. I haven't used this tractor enough to find out if it gels up easier or worse than my Dodge diesel pickup. So, I also plug in a 200 watt magnetic heater that is under the steel fuel tank. It will usually keep the fuel at 40 to 55 degrees F if its plugged in over night. So far, it has worked very well for me. It is on a timer and parked outdoors for safety.

I sign "Hilary Clinton" or "Chucky Shumer" to all my kerosene sign-in sheets. This sign-in thing seems pretty silly, unless they're looking for terrorists buidling fertilizer bombs. But, if that was the case, we'd be signing for regular diesel too.

Now thats funny jd, Im gonna steal your idea next time I buy kero for my reddy heater!!! You, and yours have a Merry Christmas! JayinNY

Didn't run the diesel tractor in winter until I got the snow blower. Was a kid, didn't know much, was dad's 1st diesel as well so he didn't know much either.

Ran it for 2-3 years through the Minnesota winters without any fuel conditioner, a Ford 7700 on #2 (summer) fuel.

never had a problem.

Why? The tank heater that I plug in happens to be directly below the fuel filter. Plug it in for an hour or 2, and you heat up the fuel filter as well. With the double tank they have - one over the engine - it always has fuel pressure to keep pushing even thick fuel to the filter. Once it's running, the coolant keeps running through the tank heater, and the engine heat warms the top fuel tank.

Dumb luck for me. I didn't know. Took me a while to even understand the issue, or why other people had problems?

--->Paul

Cutting #2 with Kero was a common practice at one time. I suppose it still is as that's what they do here for a so-called #1 stove oil but they call it 'Furnace Lite'.
The problem with mixing Kero is that they dont' actually mix well in a tank. I was led to believe there is some process they use to mix them which results in some kind of homogenization...
For all I know it may be a bunch of bull.
For my own part I simply buy ULS diesel because that's what we get here. Try to keep the water out of the tanks and it works fine. If I get water it's getting a big blast of methyl hydrate. I also sometimes use Howes Power Cleaner...

Rod

when we milked cows we ran dsls. every day whether it was -30f or not and when it was cold (below 0f)we blended #1 in and never bought conditioner,I have 1/3 #1 in with Howes in my ds. loader tractor loader tractor right that I use for snow, I feed cows with my other loader tractor which is gas, now ask a pump shop what they think of power service, the honest ones will tell you it's good for business, I suspect that your f.i.l. isn't as stupid as you think he is and that you aren't as smart as you think you are!

All of you who believe P.S. will work all the time in COLD weathwer are fooling no one but your self. It will help, but if it gets to 20 or 30 below and stays there you are going to be sitting along the road with everyone else who believes that. The only way to prevent gelling is to use number 1 fuel. Number 2 fuel oil is NOT the same fuel as number 2 diesel. It will work in the old cats and tractors from the 1950's and early 1960's.

well come on out to Mn and see if your theory holds true after a week of -20 to -30f, anyone out here that runs a dsl. mixes in some #1, I suppose they are all idiots just like your f.i.l.! No one around here has 100% in Howes, PS, JB or any other additive.

Jay you and your FIL are right. Your are correct IF it does not get real cold for an extended time, but if it gets to below zero then treatments are not enough. Your FIL is correct that you need to run a #1/#2 blend when it gets sub zero but he is wrong not to run some conditioners too. I have my farm fuel mixed with 10% #1 for the winter. I then put in a fuel conditioner to handle any water than might be there.

Here in North-east Iowa we can get below zero for days at a time. Each of your vehicles will act differently. My chore tractors, JD 4020 and Oliver 1655, do not seem to have a problem gelling until twenty below. My International Semi tractor with a Cummins ISM motor will gel at ten above. I think that the fuel filter location and how much fuel the motor returns is the difference. The tractors have the filter on the side of the engine block and they get warmth from the running engine. My semi has the filter mounted inside of the frame next to the oil pan and it gets no warmth from the running motor. My brother"s semi has the filter mounted outside the frame but it is high up in the hood and it does not gel as bad as mine, must get engine heat.

I also have had trouble with bio-diesel under twenty degrees. I use it in the warm months but try to be switched before cold weather. I used to run it in my semi whenever it stayed warm. The local Coop keeps road fuel both ways. I got caught by a sudden cold spell two years ago. I had to put the semi in my heated shop over night and pump all of the fuel out. It cost me four sets of filters before I got it all cleaned out. I checked and I DID NOT have water in the bio-diesel either. My source of bio-diesel just seems to gel at higher temperatures then regular diesel. I like to use bio-diesel but just can"t in the winter.

I dident say he was stupid, or I was smarter, I just thought it would be easier for him. And my tractor isent the one that quit working,!!! (without kero in it, but conditioner)!

We dont get that cold here. so ya run kero out there, Im not saying him or anyone else cant ues it. I think your missing the point of my post. I think he should add something for water, wax, ect. Dry gas even? Or heet!

I should also add that his tractor sits for a month or longer at a time, hasent been started now since the begining of November. We only use it for snow plowing during winter. And he dosent add kero to has 275 gallon tanks, just the tractor tanks, Its been in the 20s here for awhile, so that fuel may be gelled.