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O.T. - Honest butchers?

C

CB in central NY

Member
The other day I had a few head slaughtered and processed for sale by a USDA facility (My wife and I run a small beef operation). This is the second or third time I"ve used this processor and I am fairly convinced that he is short-changing me to the tune of 200 or 300 pounds. I like his work and because he is USDA-inspected, I can sell to stores and such. But I cannot put up with the theft. I made sure to have him give me the hot hanging weight but it did not seem to make a difference.

How do you folks deal with this issue? Have you had this issue come up? Are there any ways to keep the butcher honest (short of standing over his shoulder while he is doing the cutting)? I would like to stay with a USDA shop (for whatever it"s worth, not much, I gather).

Thanks in advance.
 
We suspected that our butchers were keeping back some of our pig parts, so we changed butchers. Then we changed again because the second place didn't cut the roasts very well and their sausage was bland. Third time we got lucky and found a good place run by some Mennonites. It's about 40 miles away on back roads but worth it.
Zach
 
I have run in this situation before,but it is not always the butcher,altough there are some that seem to eat pretty cheap themselves.

You got to realize that hot hanging weight won't result in the same weight of meat after cutting out.
first there is shrink which can amount up to 10% of the weight depending on how long the carcass hangs in the cooler.

sec" bone or bone out makes up at least 100 lb dif,also depends on breed and finnish before the kill.
A prime limousin for example has more meat to bone ratio than a simmenthal or longhorn.

Then there's waste like grizzle and fat,also depends on the animal and how much needs to be cut off and discarded.

I think if one has 40-45% edible meat from live weight one is doing OK.

But i have also had that i did not get my own beef back.
One time i had more meat back than the steer weighted alive.

upon opening the packages i found some steaks from the same cut where twice as large as the the next one.

Today, when i have one butchered i pick up all te good meat in whole chunks fresh(unfrozen) like tenderloins,ribeye's in and outside rounds and eye of round and cut that in roasts or steaks myself.And pick up the hamburger later
Its a PITA but at least they can't fool me no more.

I also make sure i get my own animal back and some skinny runt from an other guy.
 
I live near a community that's heavily populated with Mennonites. One Mennonite family has a meat operation about 7 miles from where I live, so I always take my deer to them. They do good work, reasonably priced, fast, and it goes without saying that you get your own deer back. Unlike some of these clowns around here where you get "X" number of pounds of meat back, but it may or may not be your own deer.

And, when you go into the place during non- school hours, even the 12 year olds are humping at a job of some sort.
 
There is no way to consistently get a good deal with a dishonest person. If he is dishonest and smart he can operate in such a way that you will never detect. Make sure you were really cheated and then drop him. He has unlimited time and training to be dishonest.you have little time to check on him.
 
Your reply gave some great insight to meat weight. I use to buy 1/2 hanging beef sides, do our own butchering( Not fancy but eatable) saved bones for soup, and the puppy. Ground our own hamburger, Last one we bought broke me of the habit . Large 1/2 side of beef. When we got it home, we butchered ,wraped froze, ect. Time to use it and Dam meat tasted like sorgum molasas.Had to be what the farmer fed to the steer to gain weight. The meat was so bad, even the dog refused to eat it. Took it back into the woods for the bear and cyotes.I don't know how to tell if the next one (if i ever do) won't taste that way and any way to determine the feed given to the animal prior to butchering. Any Suggestions along this line, just in case I relinquish the idea of NEVER buying hanging 1/2's again?Sure would be appreciated.
Back to Experience. Reguards
LOU/
 
This sort of thing has been going on for a long time its hard to prove. We had a local guy would buy junk at the sale barn and gave you that meat and sold your good stuff across the counter he quietly left town. Any good fed steer should dress out 60% or better compare live wt to lbs on his bill processed.It will give you some idea
 
Its not that hard. I used the same guy for years and could look at the cow standing in the field and know just about where it would come in. Not sure what CB's tell is but in my case it started out by comming in at the low end of the scale consistantly after the place sold to new owners. Then a few didn't even make a third of hang weight. Putting it at 18% hoof to packaged 8>O. Bone loss was the excuse. My last time I had a 250lb quarter arrive at a customer in a single grocery bag. Went to a new butcher and things were right back up where they should be. I hear tell they are now closed up.
 
Best bet there would be to get to know someone who raises them, and buy direct. That way you know what they are fed. My Dad raises most of the bull calves that are born on my farm. He has a waiting list of customers. (never sold any un-cut though)
 
We had problems with a local butcher, that way once, funny how a farm raised tea party hog (no ear-marks) came back with ear marks, and the snout trimmed, to eliminate the ring marks, which ours didn't have! Shortly thereafter, after my grandfather, and a few other put the word-of-mouth out about him, he closed up shop. Since then, we have been using a good ole German butcher, on the Eastern Shore of MD. Sudlersville is the town, only one butcher there, and he does good work, both on game and livestock! there, I gave him a free plug, he deserves it!
 
And those kids who are working are the ones who are going to be working for the rest of their lives and being useful, not like so many kids who never learn how to work or value work. My mother expected me to help with things right on up and I learned that work is a good thing not a bad one like some my age seem to think.
Zach
 
You must've had a dark cutter(the one you threw to the bears)It happens sometimes,usually a riled up one just before they get shot,some tend to stiffen up and won't bleed out good.They taste like sh"t cause of all the blood still in the meat,but feed can also influence the taste.
Older breeding bulls don't make good eating either.

It takes a bit of know how how to select a good one for the freezer,If it is the right animal even a older cow can be as good as a young steer.

Tastes differ, but i like the limousin and Belgian blue the best,the more muscle they show the better,they have the most carcass yield of any breed,up to 85% hanging weight.

I had once a 1430 lb(live weight)double muscle limousin steer,hot hanging weight was still 1125 LB,i ended up with just shy of 1000 lb in the freezer(bone out)> And that was after 14 days hanging.Hardly any fat,more like a bison.

If you fill the freezer with the same animal,you'll have to eat too so you want good meat.
I would never buy a 1/2 without having seen the animal alive and witnessed the kill.
don't ever buy an animal that is rangy and flighty,you'll end up being unhappy with it,unless one can drop it while its quietly grazing.
 
Beef Carcass Breakdown
With an average market (live or on hoof) weight of 1,150 lbs and the average yield of 62.2%, the typical steer will produce a 715 lb. (dressed weight) carcass.

The dressed beef (or carcass) will yield approximately 569 lbs. of red meat and trim (take home meat - which includes the average weight of 27 lbs of variety meat: liver, heart, tongue, tripe, sweetbreads and brains) and 146 lbs of fat, bone and loss. This is roughly a yield of 80% from the dressed or hanging weight - this is for a VERY LEAN Beef. A High Quality, USDA Choice Beef will yield approximately 70% of the Hanging or Dressed Weight. The yield on the take home meat weight from the live weight of the (VERY LEAN) steer is approximately 50%.
 
My Garndfather once told the local butcher to cut off the best cut of serloin and keep it for himself. When the butcher asked him why? My Grandfather told him, "I know you are going to do it anyway, so I thought I would give you my permission!!"
 
The only poster I believe is bison- you should get 40-45% of live weight in the freezer. Cutout does depend on what you do with the carcass, but I"ve often questioned the butchers- I typically weigh what I get back, and it usually does not hit 40%. I remember one that was in the low 30s, and the guy loading actually mentioned how he thought his boss shorted me. That was my home town butcher of years ago, and I"ve never gone back. After dealing with 5 within 30 miles, I don"t trust any of them. Often wondered if any bought meat to feed their families.
 
I think that happens quite often. If you think your butcher is taking some of the finer cuts of meat you should tell him that you think your steer ate some rat poison when you pick it up and the whole lot needs to be destroyed and buried. I bet you won't be short changed then. Hal
 
We were pretty sure that the guy that ran the local locker was a crook. Funny how meat from a fattened steer was tough and dry almost like he was selling our good meat and giving us some beef from an older animal. One time he "lost" some of our meat, he found it in a hurry when Dad said he was going to report it stolen at the sheriffs office! He ran the business into the ground and moved on.
 
Everyone seems to think butchers are ripping them off. I don't think it happens very often though. At worst it's just a wasteful processing job. A lot of times they'll tank the heart, the tongue, and even soup bones. Especially if you're processing USDA for sale. I tell my butcher to grind the heart and tongue into the burger. Really though, you know all the cuts that come off a carcass, so what is the butcher stealing? Hamburger?
 
My grandpa died about 60 years ago, and worked for a butcher. He always wondered how the butcher could never buy a beef, or hog, but always sold meat over the counter.

Anyone who works for them ever get fired? There is a good place to start with questions.

If you know for sure he is stealing, and you drop him...well I think you owe it to others to take it the next step. We are all in on this together, but just make sure you are accurate beyond any question or doubt.
 
Sory, I got this habit of thinking after reply.

Perhaps you should go talk to a honest attorney about the dishonest butcher---yea---right, that is like a crap shoot.
 
Bison I want to thank you . Sure as shootin it tasted like molassas.Smelled that way while cooking. Well from what you are telling me. I surely will be more visual and select when dealing with meat producers. I"m old but not so dumb, thanks to guys like you who know. Buyer beware program from now on. Thanks again LOU.
 
I am trying to figure out how you could possibly get shorted 200 to 300 lbs. since most of my large beefs yield around 400 lbs. of meat and the smaller steers and heifers down towards 300 lbs, that would be almost all of your meat. Could it be you have a mis-understanding about what you should be yielding? Check your inventory of cuts and see what you have. Regardless of size, you should be getting somewhere around 24 - 26 rib steaks, 12- 14 porterhouse and a few less T-bones. those loin cuts are set by ribs and change a little by size of animal and thickness of steak.
 
A real lean animal may yield 40 % of live weight but I have never seen any yield that high of live weight. A fat, corn fed steer will usually yield around 35 % of live weight and heifers below 30%. A dairy cross, corn fed heifer is usually around 26% of live weight.
 
As far as I know,Internal organs are never included in yield or hanging weight wether your own or boughten.
 
Have the slaughter house kill the animal and tell them you will pick up dressed animal and cut it yourself. Stay right there if your have to and mark your animal after slaughter. I have seen crooked butchers but I wasn't one of them. I Cut up beef and pork for 10 years. A lot of people think they can bring a tough bull to slaughter and come out with a first calf heifer. You have to finish them off properly before slaughter. Good luck.Even a good Holstein cow should dress 75% percent. Beef animals a little more.
 
You can walk in almost any local butcher shop and see what he sells in the counters. Look at the ratio of good steaks and good roasts he sells in relation to soup bones, hamburger and such. A lot of them never buy a beef to stock their choice steaks for counter sale. They take it out of the coustomer who bring in beefs for custom processing. This is their real profit margin, and they have always done it. Tom
 
Have not dealt with a real butcher in years but I know for a fact that many of the deer processors "skim" meat. They will either keep it for their own use or sell it to someone else. They have also been known to mix meat. Had a buddy that killed a 160 LB doe. One shot, and there were no other marks on her. He got the meat back and found several pieces of lead that was not what he shot her with. Processor said it "must have already been in the meat". This is very dangerous and also underhanded if he swapped the meat.
I also believe that they need to be USDA inspected just like any other legal butcher shop. I know some are going to say "it is for my own use", but not if they are processing for others. Many of them start as "self" processors but quickly find that there is cash tax free money to process for others.
 
There is nothing that is going to come close to dressing 75%, 62% is the normalon a high yield grade animal, Holsteins, gonna dress less then that. Hide, head, hooves, guts, way more then 25%. I think one thing these post show is that alot more people know a lot less about the processing end of the business and wrongly point fingers at the butcher. There are only a couple posters on this topic that are very close to actual expectations. One reason is that farmers are familiar with live weight and the butcher charges based on hanging weight, very rarely are the actual numbers of packaged weight put out there, that is the number that really matters.
 

> With an average market (live or on hoof) weight of 1,150 lbs and the average yield of 62.2%, the typical steer will produce a 715 lb. (dressed weight) carcass.


I think a lot of confusion comes from numbers like this. Even if the carcass weight was 715lb, you still lose about 25% of that from trimming and deboning, so you'll be lucky to get 537lbs of meat. The good rule-of-thumb numbers are: 1000lbs on the hoof, 600lbs on the hook, and 450 pounds on the table. A lot of people have a hard time believing that there is only that much meat in an animal, so the next logical conclusion is that that someone has robbed them :)
 
Thanks to all who have weighed in (no pun intended). The reason I think my butcher is skimming is that I had one animal processed by some Amish folks nearby (not USDA) and came out with about 65% processed meat (as compared to hot hanging weight). The USDA butcher did the rest of my animals and I got only about 53%. The animals came from the same lot.

Regardless, it sounds like time for a new butcher.
 
Might be that farmer used mollasses as a supplement in a lick tank and that steer had developped a sweet tooth.
 
About 13 yrs ago i took a 3 yr old bison hfr carcass(had broke its leg) to our local grocery store butcher department for cooling and processing.

I had it hung for 2 weeks and told them to cut it up such and so(bone out).Hanging weight was around 475 lb.
I ended up with about 160 lb in meat,1/2 of that was ground.( wife had picked it up)

there where no tenderloins and only a couple steaks per cut.
I called them up and asked," where is the rest of my meat",i was told," that's all there is,bison yield very little meat".
I told them," i'm gonna be right over, and you better have it on the counter when i get there.

Well it turned out it wasn't there,i had a hell of a fight to even get a refund on the cutting charge.They only wanted to settle after i treatened to call the cops.

Bison meat was still a novelty back then and i bet the whole department got a steak to try it out
 
I think that sometimes its just the fact that some are simply better butchers than others.But that being said, I honestly have a lot better luck dealing with the mennonite folks than any others around here.Ive never even suspected they were doing me wrong which is a lot better than I can say for most places.I tried a different butcher this year on the recommendation of the preacher at our church,all I can say is if the preacher thinks this guy is good ,he's had some VERY bad butchers!
 
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