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ether and if you use it

O

olliekid

Member
What do you all think about ether? Do you use it to start your tractor in the winter? I know the better option is block heating but that isnt always an option, and in my case block heating doesnt always make it start. My tractor is a 1655 and I am wondering if it is better to not use it or start it at all during the winter, or use ether to start it and put a snow blower on it. what effects does ether have? Ive heard it makes the engine knock and is bad for the engine?

lets hear what you guys think.
 
I have always used it on my 4630 JD when cold....works for me. Used to do 855 Cummins with two cans spraying at the intake stack.
 
What kind/size of a block heater, tractor parked inside or outside.
A 300W magnetic heater on the oil pan along with 5W-30 oil won't hurt.
Push the clutch pedal down when cranking. Push the three point hitch down as you don't want the starter raising the snowblower.
Does the battery completely fill the battery box or is there room for a larger unit?
Is the chassis return from the battery bolted to sheet metal? Or onto a starter mounting stud like it's supposed to?
Walmart battery cables or HD 2/00 diesel cables?
 
I think I would rather look at why the block heater is not getting it done. Heaters do go bad so it may need replacing. There are some low wattage models around (500W) which may be insufficient for your conditions. The starting system may not be up to snuff including weak starter (had to rebuild the starter on our 986 because it was getting too slow but look out now), cables and ends can look good but still have problems, battery issues. If the block is warm (enough so you are not guessing it is due to the daylight) and you are getting a quick spin out of the starter then you need to look at the fuel system to see if you are getting delivery to all cylinders and good atomization of fuel.
If you can't figure it out on your own you may have to pay somebody to help you unless you have a very mechanically inclined friend. Good luck.
 
For the number of ether experts who "know what they are doing". Machine shops owe a fair percentage of their business to ether.
 
the batteries are 1000amp and the starter isnt stock its a starter made for JD 100+ tractors (4430,4440 etc) It has a block heater and when i feel the engine i can tell its a little warm but our jd block heater seems to heat up much faster when i feel its engine. should i get another block heater?
 
I don't know if this works or not but I was at a friend's party about a year ago where I was talking to a heavy construction mechanic. I asked him about using ether and he said they quit using it several years ago and now only use WD-40. He claimed it worked better than ether and no engine lock ups.

JimB
 
and it is inside the barn. ive already bought new batteries, a bigger starter, had the cables checked, checked the valves and it starts better now but just not good when its really cold. (30 and below)
 
I believe that the propellant used in the WD-40 spray cans used to be propane but it is not any longer. There is a video on YouTube of a guy using WD-40 and a match to inflate a tire. Since propane is no longer used as the propellant neither of those uses for WD-40 are valid now.
 
Being inside it should feel quite a bit warmer than the surrounding air if it is doing it's job. They do slowly go bad so your old one can function but yet not get the job done. Probably time to change it out. Good idea to check your breaker and extension cords if any to make sure they will safely handle any increase in wattage. If you go up in size and run it constantly you will see it in your utility bill. May want to install a timer system if you run it at set times during the day versus random. Check your fuel system for delivery and atomization. I have seen a fair number of diesel starting issues clear up after things such as injectors have been serviced/ replaced.
 
I have used ether for many years and have never lost an engine.This was mostly on tractors that werent used that many times in the winter.Just a little bit of ether goes a long ways.I see people empty half a can and wonder why the engine locks up.I saw this happen recently at a farm sale.

If I had to start a diesel every day I would use a block heater.Theres usually another problem if the block heater is working and it still wont start.
 
I'm not afraid to use it, even on small gas engines. There is a big difference in quality. I have good luck with the Polar brand. I found out the difference one day when I was trying to start a brush fire. Didn't have any matches. I did have a can of starting fluid, some paper hand towels, and a set of jumper cables. Hooked up the cables to the battery on the Cat, sprayed the starting fluid on the towel, and sparked the cables together, instant fire, The Polar brand will instantly ignite, the Napa and other store brands wouldn't.
 

IMHO, a lot depends on the engine... I don't know how some folks can make blanket statements that "ether is bad", when a lot of tractor engines have factory ether systems built right on the tractor...

The only problem I've ever seen firsthand is causing the engine to kick back on a weak starter, holding it, and hastening the end of whatever life was left in the starter... But that was mainly because the starter was weak to begin with...

I don't use it unless I think it will really help - and don't use any more than I have to...

Howard
 
I am not afraid to use ether, but use it sparingly. As for your hard starts, you might try a circulating heater that heats the anti freeze, not expensive and easy to install. I use one set up on a timer twice daily on my feeding tractor, a 180 Mf that is cold blooded and it starts up easy even on the coldest days.
 
NEVER use ether with glow plugs! You can blow the heads off. Some engines without glow plugs can't use ether but ether is not only used, but recommended on a lot of engines for cold starting. It has to be used sparingly and should have fuel in the cylinders when using it. The better ether systems only allow a tiny shot in the intake. Check with the engine manufacturer before using ether. An electric heater is always a good idea. Circulating heaters heat the coolant and so do block heaters. Depending on the engine either is a good choice. Dave
 
WD-40 is not as potent as ether, but is pretty good, pretty flamable, and pretty explosive. It makes a pretty good substitute for ether as starting fluid. I've used it many times over the years for that exactly. Its a tip that I learned back in the '70's when dealing with old 4x4's setting in the fields behind barns for years and years. Always take a can of WD-40 with you to break loose those rusted bolts, and works real well as starting fluid. Late '70's and this is 2010 going on 2011. I've never blown up anything using either WD-40 or ether in small amounts on those sub zero occasions. I don't consider myself an expert, and I won't tell others that they should or shouldn't use ether, WD-40, the sun gods, or anything else. I can speak to what does work from my experience and have never had a problem with ether or WD-40 in reasonable amounts.

Good luck.

Mark
 
That could be. It is entirely possible that WD-40 has changed since I last purchased it. That is entirely possible. One way to find out, I will have to give it a try. Maybe it is no longer the two in one tool that it used to be. I'll have to buy a new can tomorrow and try it out. If it fails, mark that can to never use as starting fluid again.

Mark
 
I use it on my JD 2950 and 4020 using the factory-installed spraycan port just like the instructions in the owner manuals says to. It's only necessary if it's less that 10F and I've forgot to plug in the block heater or it's not parked near electricity.

Rebuilt the 4020 at around 12,000 hours and the 2950 is pushing 9000 without a rebuild. Using starting fluid might take some life off, but how much, really?

On the other hand my Dad's Chevy diesel truck has warning labels all over it saying never to use starting fluid, so I guess it depends on what kind of engine you have and what the manufacturer says about using it.
 
I use it if I have 2,but I try not have 2.Power was out for week last year had to use it then cows need to eat.
 
Anyone who says you never need starting fluid probably never spent much time around old Detroit Diesels.

All things in moderation.
 
Sounds like warmer batteries would help. There are heating pads for underneath and blankets that wrap. Make for a world of difference.
Measure voltage at the starter while cranking just to be certain.
 
The rule of thumb is to NOT use it on glow plug preheated engines. And NEVER on Asian diesels, the tops of the pistons in these motors are easy to blow out, cause they are thinner than their American counterparts!
 
Well here is my opinion. If you are in the north country. Hook quick disconnects on your tractor cooling system and truck heater hoses. Run about 12 feet of heater hose and plug in the tractor to your truck the truck warms it up. No electricity etc needed. Make sure you have sufficent batteries to crank it. It may be neccasary to warm the oil pan with a huge propane torch if its real cold. You can also use propane in place of eather!!! The reason for not using eather with a glow plug system is the glow plugs can ignite it in the air intake and blow the manifold etc all the WHELL hope this helps.
 
A diesel will run on WD40. I've used it to start a diesel and keep it running after changing fuel filters 'till the air is bled out and the engine will run on its own.

Shoot little puffs into the intake, just enough to keep the engine running.
 
In moderation I don't think it hurts. I have an old Allis Chalmers dozer that it doesn't matter if it's 70 above or -20 below. No ether, not going to start. Get it cranking over and 1 quick shot in the intake and it'll fire off every time. Same thing with the timber jack skidder if it is below about 50 degrees. Get it cranking and a shot or two in the intake and good to go. Have done this with both for at least 10 years, and no problems as of yet.
 
Most companies that sold tractors with direct-injection diesels also provided some sort of ether inejection. That was usually a line hooked to the air intake with an ether-nozzle at the end. My Allis Chalmers HD6 has it, as do all my Deeere and Case diesels.

The reason for using "ether injection" through a line and orifice, is so a person can't overload the engine and shatter piston rings and piston tops.

Many engines have been ruined by people using a spray can of ether and overloading the engine by spraying into the air-intake.

On a other hand, a person who is careful can get by. When I worked as a dealer mechanic, we did more engine rebuilds due to ether use, then due to normal wear.
 
moderation is the key , and knowing your engine is MOST important ,rice burners asian toilet rim gotohel in a Hatbasket when using ether ,, guess how i know ?... Never Be stubborn About starting one when inadequete fuel(ICE ) or other issues ,, FIX THE DURN PROBLEM BEFORE proceeding..
 
just a very small shot sure helps my 1926 john deere 3 hp model e start when it's in the teens
 
Funny story,one of the neighbors had a kid working for him doing some feild work the kid was plowing a hill and the old farmer noticed that the kid made it through a tough spot where the boss man had to down shift to get through,the farmer asked the kid how he managed to pull her through that area without dropping down a gear the kid told him he used the BOOST BUTTON (the ether can!) and she pulled right thru but it did knock a bit! well all of the ether cans were put away after that!
 
Years ago, there was a farmer bragging about his tractor always starting in the cold. Until one time it didn't start & he used ether to start it. He said after that time it always needed ether to start. I said the top rings maybe got broken from using the ether that first time. It was a few years later when the local implament dealer overhauled his tractor & he found out all the top rings were broken.
 
I used it for years on a 1550 diesel- get it spinning first, then just a puff into the intake. DON'T just spray a slug of it into the intake before you crank the engine.

Had an IH 504 diesel that would sometimes start on the glowplugs in cold weather, sometimes not. After two cycles trying to start it with the glowplugs, wait 2 minutes and do it with ether, but no glowplugs. As stated below, glowplugs (or manifold heaters) and ether are a dangerous combination.
 

Not sure about Diesel engines, but I have far better luck starting small gas engines with a shot of WD-40 that I do with Ether..
Works amazingly well on 2-Cycle engines.
(One of the few things I use WD-40 for)..

Ron
 
Ether, used right, works.On older stuff without glow plugs,as long as you dont use a whole bunch,it can get your engine running.If you spray a big slug of ether in something it can lock up,burn up a starter and break rings and head bolts.
 
I"d bet that your valve protrusion is not right, it is very common on those engines and makes a huge difference. I do not like to use ether on Olivers w/waukasha. I feel like they perform very well, but are somewhat delicate. Even one with some wear on it, if you plug it in and put in on the trickle charger should start pretty well in the cold.
Josh
 
the valves have been checked by a diesel mechanic. and im hoping if i plug it in long enough and preheat it that it will start alright.
 
To check the valve protrusion the head must be removed. I'd bet this is the problem. Mine was like that, and I got a lot of use out of it that way, it was just hard to start. With a rebuild it starts better but not perfect. It starts pretty easy down to 30 or so.
Josh
 
It it doesn't start well with the block heater, but DOES start well in the summer - your block heater isn't doing the job. Put one on that will. Any block heater hooked up and sized right will raise the temp of your engine by 40 degrees F in 4-5 hours. So, if 20F outside, the engine will be 60F in 4-5 hours.
Put on a big 1500-2000 watt tank/circulating heater and it will get even warmer, faster. They have thermostats and won't overheat.

Are you sure your engine hasn't already been ruined by somebody over-using ether? If often happens that way. An engine gets a simple problem but instead of getting fixed, ether gets used until the top rings shatter to pieces (or worse).

Poor compression, slow cranking speed, injection pump fuel delivery set too low, injection/ignition timing too retarded, valve-head-depth excessive in head, rocker-arm lash too wide or too tight, and more can give you cold starting problems.

How does it act when it's 60F outside? Start up and run smooth, or start up, and skip and smoke for awhile until warm?
 
Another use for carb cleaner- starting a small engine that had bad (old) gas.

Disconnect fuel line from bottom of fuel tank. Drain bad gas. Good abundant shots of carb cleaner into the fuel line leading to the carb and into the air intake. Re-attach fuel line, spray enough carb cleaner into tank to see on the bottom, then add about the same amount of gas.

Guy guaranteed engine will start on first pull. I've done it 3 times, so far he's right.
 
I have a 1655 that I use for snow removal. I plug it in for 2 hours, have a magnetic oil pan heater on it for the last hour. Preheat the manifold for 1 minute and it starts instantly every time.

I am using 15w40 Rotella and noticed that there is little or no oil pressure for about 10 seconds. I always start near idle and back it right down until pressure builds up.

I keep the single battery it has in the house and charged so it is warm when I go to start it.

Thats what I do. I would advise against the ether--much too easy to damage the motor.
 
Installed valve-head depth (or protrusion) in the head certainly makes a difference in cold-starting in some engines, but not a huge difference.

When valve-heads are too deep (usually after a bad valve reseating job), and all else is perfect, it can make a tractor skip and smoke at a certain temp - when otherwise it wouldn't. Often by a 10-20 degree F margin. Or make a tractor start poorly at 50 degrees F, whereas when the valves are correct it might not start poorly until it's down to 30-40 degrees F, etc. And on some tractors, it makes no difference at all. Much depends on other factors.

When an engine is first built, there are plus-minus tolerances on many parts of the engine. Crankshaft throws, piston standout, cam profile, top ring to piston-top distance, fuel delivery, etc. For that reason, same-model engines do not all behave the same when new or used.

I haven't heard specific details, but . . . if his engine won't even try to start at 40 degrees F, but starts fine at 70 F, valve-head position is not going to be the problem. If his tractor smokes and tries to start at 40 F, and starts fine at 70 F, then I'd suspect the valves as part of the problem.

In your sitution . . . if somebody reworked your head to get valve-heads in the correct place, then more was done then JUST making them protrude more. To do so, they proably used thicker-headed valves, installed hardened seat-inserts, or both. So, at the least - your valves got newly seated and would of been tighter and sealed better, then before - thus giving more compression at cranking and starting. I also assume they had the injectors out and checked them while the head was off, and made sure the valve-lash was dead-on when it went back together. My point being, that more then just the valve-in-head-depth was probably altered and improved.

I had to pull apart many brand new direct-injected diesel tractors in the 70s-80s that had cold-starting problems. We had a long check list of things to check, including valve-head depth or standout. That alone never made a huge differece, but it was one of many factors when put together, did.
 
like anything else used wrong you better get a wad of money .
ran a log potter in the woods for couple of years . keeped the can in warm so it would spray a mist not a stream .
keep in mind the size of motor your putting in to .
brake clean works too .
some out fits up hear will give you walking papers if they see you using it .
its known as death breath by times .
 
Still have to measure voltage at the starter while cranking.
I have no idea why but more people will go and touch a live snake. Rather than use a volt meter.
 
I have a Oliver 1655 Diesel. I use it for chores every day. The block heater is in the bottom radiator hose neck on the block. It heats the whole engine no matter how cold it is. I don"t like using either to start a engine that is cold. Too fast of a start on cold oil. I would bet that your block heater is not working correctly.
 
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