8 volt conversion for the old CASE

I have asked this before, but get mixed answers. I have a CASE SC and DC. I need a little more cranking power. I have large battery cables, starters ok, etc. Was wondering if 8V would help and if so, what changes do I have to do? Voltage regulator? I know that its not good for lights, but don't really use 'em anyway. Can't seem to find a good 6 volt battery that has any "umph" nor any that last for a while.

(quoted from post at 20:03:58 12/12/10) I have asked this before, but get mixed answers. I have a CASE SC and DC. I need a little more cranking power. I have large battery cables, starters ok, etc. Was wondering if 8V would help and if so, what changes do I have to do? Voltage regulator? I know that its not good for lights, but don't really use 'em anyway. Can't seem to find a good 6 volt battery that has any "umph" nor any that last for a while.

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I wanted an 8 volt for my allis CA, and had to have NAPA order it. I installed it with the existing regulator and generator, and still had slow turning of the starter. I removed both battery cables going to put new cables, on, and found rust, and corrosion in the brass terminal where the cable enters the terminal, it didn't look bad, but I put it in the vise, and worked the cable loose, and found that the terminal was brass plated, but the inside was steel, and had rusted. I cut the cable off to clean wire, (about 1/2") and made a new terminal out of a piece of copper tubing, with the end squeezed flat in my vise, and drilled a 3/8" hole in it. I soldered the copper sleeve on to the cable end, and reinstalled it. When I put the battery and ground cable back on, the tractor spun the starter, like I was jumping it with a 12 volt. That made me pull the 8 vt out & replace my 6vt, which had tested good. the 6vt started it like it used to in the past. I swear, that I had cleaned both ends, of both cables before buying the 8vt bat, that I no longer need, but I missed that hidden rust. Years ago I used to drive old 6 volt fords,and chevies, and have put 8vt batts in them, and never had to change a thing, however now I wonder how many could have been poor cables.

That mite solve the problem as i know of a couple with 8v batts and over the yrs it has been done. You just dont change anything keep the same polarity. You mite want to get new 1ga cables and get the starter cleaned with new brushes ect. Quickest way to start on the problem is clean both ends on each cablethen change one at a time. Is the battery fully charged and check each cell with a hydrometer they need to read the same aa one weak one tears down the entire battery going thru the system one thing at a time will dig out the problem

The PURISTS are going to be at you like attack dogs for what you just said. I see 8v batteries on the shelves at Fleet Farm so they are probably selling briskly. If your tractor has a magneto, and it's working, all you need to do is get it to turn over. But, if you live way up north,,,,,go ahead. It is your tractor.

All depends if you can turn your regulator up to charge at 9 volts. Some 6 volt setups can just barely do it, and some cannot. Depends on the model generator you have.

We used to install quite a few 8 volt batteries at our dealerhip - 30 years ago. But, now adays - at least where I live, I can't see where it's worth it. 8 volt batteries are a "specialty" and tend to be overpriced.

12 volt batteries much more common. If I were going to make a change for better cold starting, I'd stick a 12 volt battery in there and be done with it. A 12 volt battery, if sized correctly, will spin your "6 volt tractor" at zero degrees almost as fast as it turned at 70 degrees F with the original 6 volt . Any lead-acid battery loses 1/2 it's power at zero. So, if you have twice what you need when its warm out, you do pretty well when it gets real cold.

If you DO buy an 8 volt battery, make sure it's sized right. A small 8 volt battery that replaces a big 6 volt battery can wind up cranking worse in cold-temps instead of better. The nominal voltage means little. What counts is what your voltage drops to -when you start cranking. A big 6 volt battery might only drop to 5 volts when cranking, and a small (undersized) 8 volt battery can also drop to 5 volts when cranking.

Check your cranking voltage. If it's dropping to 4 volts, you can get a pretty good gain just by using a bigger 6 volt battery.

Im NOT a fan of the 8 volt band aid approach as its unusual and batteries are expensive n harder to find. If it has a heavy duty high CCA rated 6 volt battery (biggest that will fit in the box) and 00 Gauge battery n starter n ground cables and the starter is good she ought to crank satisfactory.

Butttttt that being said and its your tractor to do as you please, if you go the 8 volt route Id still use 00 Gauge cables.

Voltage Regulator, it depends on the model you have and if it has a voltage regualtion or combo voltage/current regulation or its just current regulation (it may be 2 or 3 coils). SOME (not all) VR's can be adjusted up so she will charge an 8 volt battery satisfactory, others maybe not so easy.

IF IT WERE MINE AND I WAS GONNA HACK IT UP ANYWAY, ID GO AHEAD N GO WITH A 12 VOLT CONVERSION AS ITS EASIER N MORE STANDARD AND PARTS AND BATTERIES ARE CHEAPER N READILY AVAILABLE (plus no jury rigging or adjusting the VR is necessary)

best wishes

John T

I agree with John T.

Unless you know the nearly lost art of voltage regulator adjustment you will be dissatisfied with your 8V conversion because your 6V charging system will not properly charge your 8V battery. In this case a conversion to 12V is a better solution, though there are potential pitfalls here as well.

If it were mine, I would thoroughly refurbish the original 6V charging and starting system. Unless you have modified the engine by significantly increasing the compression or displacement, the OEM system should be perfectly adequate to crank your engine if it is in good condition.

Be CERTAIN to use 0 or 00 Ga battery cables.

Dean

Measuring actual voltage at the starter and at the distributer while cranking is the place to start.
Probably isn't one in 50 licensed mechanics however really knows how to use a multimeter.
Too many time to count I've put a voltmeter on equipment that won't start after the owner has been guessing and throwing parts are it.
Perfectly good looking connections,switches, cables and new batteries have all be found defective.
Any old gasser needs just enough starter to turn over. Low voltage on the coil supply is what prevents starting.
8V or 12V is just putting a bandage on the symptoms instead of solving the problem.
Don't know why you are willing to sacrifice lighting either?
9.6V is required to charge an 8V battery in cold weather.
High capacity 6V batteries are easy to come by.
Better to go 12V and keep working lights than monkeying with 8V.

Hello Greenfrog,
Buickanddeere told you what to do.
If the 6 volt system worked before, there is no reason to change or reengineer the system.
12 volt conversion may be an option.
You need a GOOD electrical check on the system, and SOME ONE, that can read a meter,knows where to take a reading from, and knows what the results should be! A.K.A. A good mechanic. A 6volt system draw a lot more current then a 12 volt system, all the more reason to REALLY check all the connections
Guido.

Thank you all of you guys. You all helped a lot.
the problems with the 8V I was afraid that I would hear. I will revamp the 6V. I already have big O cables, and have had starters worked on.

I am grateful to the YT forums, and hope the moderator is reading this. It is good to get good answers to big or simple problems from guys who have been there. It is also a place to share common interests and experienceses.

Thank you all of you guys. You all helped a lot.
the problems with the 8V I was afraid that I would hear. I will revamp the 6V. I already have big O cables, and have had starters worked on.

I am grateful to the YT forums, and hope the moderator is reading this. It is good to get good answers to big or simple problems from guys who have been there. It is also a place to share common interests and experienceses.

Thank you all of you guys. You all helped a lot.
the problems with the 8V I was afraid that I would hear. I will revamp the 6V. I already have big O cables, and have had starters worked on.

I am grateful to the YT forums, and hope the moderator is reading this. It is good to get good answers to big or simple problems from guys who have been there. It is also a place to share common interests and experienceses.

Thank you all of you guys. You all helped a lot.
the problems with the 8V I was afraid that I would hear. I will revamp the 6V. I already have big O cables, and have had starters worked on.

I am grateful to the YT forums, and hope the moderator is reading this. It is good to get good answers to big or simple problems from guys who have been there. It is also a place to share common interests and experienceses.

ouch...ooooh. sorry for all the same posts. it appeared that the program was not going to post the reply. oh well, thank you that many times!!!!! DS

Thanks for good reply. Yes i am familiar with multitester. Educate me on what voltages I need to look for I not already mentioned, and any other details on checking this out. The 9.6 V is an interesting note.

Who makes a good high capacity battery?

Thanks again.

Well I'm going to swim against the tide again. I had a 49 GMC with 6 volt. It cranked good enough to start but just barely. So when I needed new battery I bought an 8 volt. Then took truck to an auto elec. shop and had him tweek the regulator. Did not change anything else. Wow did that make a difference. Ran it 6 years like that with same battery and never had one prob. Thing spun over like an air starter, brightest lites on the road, defrost fan finally kept windshield clear. Put a lot of miles on it like that. Many engine start ups and like I said, no problems what-so-ever. You can call it a band aid if you want but I would do it again in a heart beat.

Local Farm & Fleet sells 8 volt batteries that are the same size as the 6 volt just for that purpose. I've done it several times with no other changes or adjustments, and had great results. Bash away if you want, but it plain works.

I don't know if anyone mentioned it but I would attach the ground wire on the block as close to the starter as you can. I don't remember where the ground was originally attached on those Case tractors but some tractors had them attached to other metal rather than the block and then the connections deteriorate over the years.

Conversion to 8V batteries was, indeed, not uncommon to increase cranking speed but this was back in the day when most GOOD mechanics knew how to adjust a vibrating voltage regulator.

Today, this is largely a lost art.

Dean

I don't know if anyone is "bashing away."

Not all tractors are the same. Subsequently, what works for one specific tractor may not work for another.

What IS the same it this. An 8 volt battery won't last or charge properly unless it's getting 9 volts or higher. An "8 volt" battery is actually closer to 9 volts when charged.

Most 6 volt systems when working correctly go no higher then 8 volts, i.e. one volt TOO low. 8 volts will not charge an 8 volt battery.

If you can "tweak" the regulator a bit and get 9 volts, then it'll be fine. If you cannot get it above that 8 volt charge voltage, it will NOT work.

We installed 8 volt batteries on many old farm tractors - and some worked well, and some not at all.

Regardless if you've got a 6 volt, 8 volt, or 12 volt battery - if they are equal size and weight - they have the same basic power - although the 8 volts versions tend to have the least wattage. If you raise the voltage, you "rob Peter to pay Paul", so to speak. You get faster cranking, but less cranking endurance time. The higher cranking voltage is, the faster the engine turns over.

Here are three batteries basically in same-size and weight packages . . .


6 volt - 6.45 volts when fully charged
BCI #1, 8 15/16” long by 6 3/4” wide by 8 3/4” tall. 670 CCA @ 4.5 volts, RC 135, 31 lbs. wet,
3000 watts at zero degrees F.


8 volt - 8.6 volts when fully charged
BCI #1, 9” long by 6 7/8” wide by 8 3/4” tall. 430 CCA @ 6 volts, RC 110, 31 lbs. wet
2580 watts at zero degrees F.


12 volt - 12.9 volts when fully charged
BCI # 75, 9” long by 7 1/16” wide 7 1/4” tall. 625 CCA @ 9 volts, RC 115, 33 lbs. wet,
5625 watts at zero degrees F.

Measure voltage on the battery posts, not the clamps while cranking. Measure the voltage across the coil while cranking, easier to measure if you put a temporary jumper from the coil's dist wire to chassis. Measure the voltage from the starter's main brass post threads, to the cast body of the starter.
If the battery can't hold 5-1/2 volts or better while cranking. Or the starter and coil isn't seeing within 1/4 of a volt of the battery post's voltages. There is something wrong.

Not going to argue, or over analyze. I've had the same 8 volt battery in my WD45 for 6 years, still works as good as new. My father's done it, I've done it. It works.

Am I arguing? I stated some work, and some do not.

Are you saying because your's works, and your father's worked, ergo every 6 volt tractor on the planet will also work?

If that IS what you're saying, OK, I WILL argue that point.

If your generator has a cut-out rather than a regulator, it should work ok with an 8 volt battery. When these tractors came out, the 6 volt systems worked just fine. But when they were overhauled, most got an overbore kit put in & then 6 volts are borderline. If it has a VR you can use a voltmeter & adjust it up to charge 8 volts.

I'll bet if the starter was rebuilt with new bushings, new brushes and had the commutator and mica trued up.
The engine would start just fine with a large enough battery and the chassis return cable going to a starter stud. Instead of to sheet metal somewhere.