Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Today in history 69 years ago the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor resulting in the deaths of 2403 Americans. An important piece of our history we should not forget.
- Thread starter Anonymous-0
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Nancy Howell
Well-known Member
Our generation won't forget, but I wonder about the next.
Lamar Fudd
Member
I think they already forgot, judging from the number of Toyautos and Nissans and Mazdas I see on the road.
I was only 8 years old when that happened. My mother and my wife's mother both went to work in a defense plant making 20mm ammo. People came far and near to work there. Just about everything was rationed and you needed ration stamps for just about everything. My mom was given extra gas stamps since she had worked at a defense plant. She also could get recap tires
when she needed them with more ration stamps. Sugar was another item that was rationed. Farmers didn't have have a problem getting gas.
Shoes were item that was rationed. We use to get new heels and soles on our old shoes. They would wear for a long time then. WE should've given Bin Laden what we gave Japan and that would've stopped all this fighting. I watched a show on the Military channel about WW I when a General said if we don't kick the Germans butt now we will have to do it at a later date. It was in 1933 only 15 years later Hitler started building up his army and air force to take over Europe. The sad part of Pearl Harbor that Billy Mitchell told the brass in Washington that Japan was going to war and this was in the late 1930's and it all fell on deaf ears. Hal
when she needed them with more ration stamps. Sugar was another item that was rationed. Farmers didn't have have a problem getting gas.
Shoes were item that was rationed. We use to get new heels and soles on our old shoes. They would wear for a long time then. WE should've given Bin Laden what we gave Japan and that would've stopped all this fighting. I watched a show on the Military channel about WW I when a General said if we don't kick the Germans butt now we will have to do it at a later date. It was in 1933 only 15 years later Hitler started building up his army and air force to take over Europe. The sad part of Pearl Harbor that Billy Mitchell told the brass in Washington that Japan was going to war and this was in the late 1930's and it all fell on deaf ears. Hal
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
That is why I will never own anything with the name Mitsubishi on it. Not that it matters since everything is made by ferigners now, but I associate Mitsubishi with the A6M Zero.
I was in the other room a little bit ago and could have sworn I heard Bill Hemmer on Fox news say that "69 years ago today, Pearl Harbor was attacked by Japanese fighter jets".
I may have not heard right, but I thought he said "jets"
Gene
I was in the other room a little bit ago and could have sworn I heard Bill Hemmer on Fox news say that "69 years ago today, Pearl Harbor was attacked by Japanese fighter jets".
I may have not heard right, but I thought he said "jets"
Gene
just another old geezer
Member
Don't forget, but why hold a grudge???
Why punish a people / country for tha actions of a few of their fathers and grandfathers???. Members of the survivors of Pearl Harbor invite members of the Japanese airman who Attatcked Pearl Harbor to the yearly reunion. Last I heard over 400 of them attended.
Why punish a people / country for tha actions of a few of their fathers and grandfathers???. Members of the survivors of Pearl Harbor invite members of the Japanese airman who Attatcked Pearl Harbor to the yearly reunion. Last I heard over 400 of them attended.
Never forget.
My mother a young Iowa farm girl two years out of nursing school joined the Army and was sent to the south pacific to join MacArthur's Army. She served three years in Australia, New Guinea and the Philippines.
My father, at 37 was rejected by the Navy when he tried to enlist due to his age. He had been with GM for two years after GM bought the automotive radio operations of Crosley Radio where he had been working.
GM asked for unmaried civilian volunteers to serve overseas with the war department as civilian technical representatives. My father volunteered, was trained in the then high tech Detroit Diesel engines and sent overseas to help the Navy maintain the millions of Detroit Diesel engines that they were buying.
They met in Leyte Gulf in January, 1945.
Dean
My mother a young Iowa farm girl two years out of nursing school joined the Army and was sent to the south pacific to join MacArthur's Army. She served three years in Australia, New Guinea and the Philippines.
My father, at 37 was rejected by the Navy when he tried to enlist due to his age. He had been with GM for two years after GM bought the automotive radio operations of Crosley Radio where he had been working.
GM asked for unmaried civilian volunteers to serve overseas with the war department as civilian technical representatives. My father volunteered, was trained in the then high tech Detroit Diesel engines and sent overseas to help the Navy maintain the millions of Detroit Diesel engines that they were buying.
They met in Leyte Gulf in January, 1945.
Dean
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Why are we so "surprised" at a surprise attack? Were the Japanese supposed to cable the day and time of their attack? Why is it that General Washington's surprise attack on the Hessians at Trenton on Christmas Day no less an act of valor? What about General Custer's surprise attack at the Little Bighorn? Why is Stonewall Jackson's surprise attack on General Hooker at Chancellorsville glorious?
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Sad thing is that this day is slowly being forgotten and being replaced by 9-11 which was not a Military attack but the attack of cowards where as Pearl was an out and out military attack which is an act of war and in turn lead to millions of deaths
I don't get what you mean by kicking the German's butt now versus later. Germany was down pretty bad at the end of WWI and the severe reparation terms set that nation on course to allow a nut to become their leader. I've studied enough European history to know that the "Do as I say and not as I do" policy by France, Great Britain, and Russia prior to the 20th century helped set that stage for what unfolded in the 20th century. Today, certain immigration issues aside, Germany stands as a bulwark against more extreme political elements in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. Germany has shored up Greece's finances and most likely will do so with other members of the EU that if it did not happen it would seriously destabilize Europe.
I agree about Billy Mitchell in terms of the military and congress in general being naive but I am convinced FDR and his cabinet knew exactly what they were doing. FDR knew he had to get the US involved in Europe within the first few years that war broke out in Europe or the war would be a hopeless proposition for the Allies. He knew from his ambassador to Japan that there was a way to goad the Japanese into war so in turn he could declare war against the entire Axis alliance. The means to set the Japanese off was to move the Pacific Fleet from its traditional station at San Diego to new station at Hawaii. The Japanese were still incensed at the Raw Materials embargo placed on them during the late 1930's and would consider the fleet move as a hostile action. The attack probably would have come sooner but the Japanese were still trying to solve their raw material issues as late as the fall of 1941. It has been debated whether FDR was hoping for a general strike in Asia versus an attack on US territory but love or hate FDR I don't think he was hoping for the severe loss at Pearl Harbor.
I agree about Billy Mitchell in terms of the military and congress in general being naive but I am convinced FDR and his cabinet knew exactly what they were doing. FDR knew he had to get the US involved in Europe within the first few years that war broke out in Europe or the war would be a hopeless proposition for the Allies. He knew from his ambassador to Japan that there was a way to goad the Japanese into war so in turn he could declare war against the entire Axis alliance. The means to set the Japanese off was to move the Pacific Fleet from its traditional station at San Diego to new station at Hawaii. The Japanese were still incensed at the Raw Materials embargo placed on them during the late 1930's and would consider the fleet move as a hostile action. The attack probably would have come sooner but the Japanese were still trying to solve their raw material issues as late as the fall of 1941. It has been debated whether FDR was hoping for a general strike in Asia versus an attack on US territory but love or hate FDR I don't think he was hoping for the severe loss at Pearl Harbor.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I don't see where Pearl Harbor is being "slowly forgotten and replaced by 9/11" Pearl Harbor is has its place in history as well as 9/11 has its place. BOTH were savage attacks on the US, Both were unprovoked violent attacks that caused huge loss of life. BOTH need to be remembered for what they ARE. As time slips away, the numbers of Pearl Harbor vets still with us has dropped significantly. That doesn't mean we've forgot what happened. I'm absolutely certain families of those killed in 9/11 were just as saddened as the families of those lost at Pearl. Beyond that, there is no need to compare and "rate" which one was the greater tragedy. Again, they BOTH need to be remembered for what they are.
The obvious difference is there was no state of war between Japan and the US at the time of the attack.
That said, if diplomatic logistic problems had not delayed Japanese plans, the state of war would have been announced by the Japanese ambassador (shortly) prior to the attack.
Dean
That said, if diplomatic logistic problems had not delayed Japanese plans, the state of war would have been announced by the Japanese ambassador (shortly) prior to the attack.
Dean
Dave from MN
Well-known Member
Sad that I hadnt seen one mention of it on tv the 24 hours, not even today on the morning news.
Billy Shafer
Well-known Member
I see that mistake all the time. Can't tell you how many times I have seen planes and ships listed as having been in WWII. That were not even in service at the time.
Lamar Fudd
Member
My Dad was stationed aboard the Pennsylvania which was in dry dock at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked. He, along with a bunch of fellow sailors had been given leave and he was Stateside when the attack occured. I believe he was at the Naval yard in Philadelphia. Told me about riding in a train full speed to get to the West coast and Mare Island. He's no longer around to ask questions of, but he was very upset that he hadn't been there, as he was a pharmacists mate and could have rendered aid to the casualties. He went on to the Leyte Gulf battle and took care of some severly injured pilots and crewmen. His station was below the waterline on ship and I don't think that did his nerves any good. Yes, I guess I do hold a grudge against the Japanese; even the way they treated their POWs was worse than the North Vietnamese. Remember, their god was the Emperor, not our Living God.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
You can't blame a company that was told what to do by their gov't in a time of conflict. Do you think the US would have put a man on the moon without Werner Von Braun? I bet if you opened the electronic gadgets in your home, there'd be Mitsubishi components inside. Caterpillar has had a long association with Mitsubishi and so have other US companies. Mitsubishi is a big company. What really ticked my dad off was how many Germans Canada let into the country directly following WW2. A lot of these same people, not all of them, were big supporters of Hitler when he was winning the war. Without the US joining the allies, there's every possibility that Hitler would have won the war. I'm not trying to dimish that Pearl Harbor was a horrible event. Dave
We were fortunate that Hitler was a poor strategist among other things. Not pulling his troops back from deep inside Russian territory during the fall of 1941 permanently crippled the German Army in terms of elite troops. If it were not for things like Lend-Lease to England and Russia he might have overcome his deficiencies as a Military Leader.
Hi Doug Boll: I agree Dec 7, 1941 Pearl Harbor loss of 2403 people should be remembered.. I also think all Americans should remember the Cherokee Trail of Tears, forced on them by the American goverment, and the 4,000 people that died on that Trail. America is not without fault in many other people suffering as bad as at Pearl Harbor. Another example: Black Slave traffic from other contries to USA cotton fields. Etc.. It was good to read one poster saying that military people from Japan also attend Dec 7th events. I hope the Internet information opens up History of a lot more events, besides Pear Harbor, to all people around the world..
I can still recall seeing the "Movietone" News showing current WW-2 events before the movie started... but we only saw our view. ag.. ret
I can still recall seeing the "Movietone" News showing current WW-2 events before the movie started... but we only saw our view. ag.. ret
just another old geezer
Member
Their god was their emperor, but he was not in control of the country, the millitary was in control of the country and he only once interviened. That was at the end of the war and that was to over rule the military and order surrender.
The japaneese treatment of prisoners was reprehensable. But was the militarys upholding of the old samuri code of conduct,(their way of controling troops) a view dismissed by most of the people. This was not a true democracy. A majority of the people were misinformed by the military to convince them to follow their orders.
I don't hold a grudge agianst the japanisee people or their country for WWII, just their military leadership at that time. BUT I also beleve in the "be american, Buy american" and have never owned a forien nameplate.
The japaneese treatment of prisoners was reprehensable. But was the militarys upholding of the old samuri code of conduct,(their way of controling troops) a view dismissed by most of the people. This was not a true democracy. A majority of the people were misinformed by the military to convince them to follow their orders.
I don't hold a grudge agianst the japanisee people or their country for WWII, just their military leadership at that time. BUT I also beleve in the "be american, Buy american" and have never owned a forien nameplate.
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
I agree they both need to be remember but if you asked many people what today is they can not even tell you any more but just say 9-11 and it seems every body knows. Case in point I was at a place today and they where talking about the flags at halt mast but had no idea as to why till I said it was Dec 7th pearl harbor day
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
One, it's been 69 years....Not near so many folks still around that were adults in December of 1941. Two, they didn't call it the bombing of December 7th....However, they DID call it 9/11. It'll be a lot easier to recall the date when it's been 69 years since that horrible day.
So....without looking it up, tell me the day the first shots were fired in the Revolutionary War? What date did the south surrender in the Civil War? What day did the US enter WWI? Are those dates any less significant in US history than the bombing of Pearl Harbor? Have those events been forgotten? (no) But the DATES aren't etched in peoples memory like the date "9/11".
The bombing of Pearl Harbor was a VERY important day in our history. There are dozens of days in US history that shouldn't be ignored, and are arguably just as important. Every single one of them makes us what we are as a nation.
It's up to those of us who recall the importance of those DATES to remind those who don't remember.
So....without looking it up, tell me the day the first shots were fired in the Revolutionary War? What date did the south surrender in the Civil War? What day did the US enter WWI? Are those dates any less significant in US history than the bombing of Pearl Harbor? Have those events been forgotten? (no) But the DATES aren't etched in peoples memory like the date "9/11".
The bombing of Pearl Harbor was a VERY important day in our history. There are dozens of days in US history that shouldn't be ignored, and are arguably just as important. Every single one of them makes us what we are as a nation.
It's up to those of us who recall the importance of those DATES to remind those who don't remember.
IndianaRed
Member
At all my stops today I told people to "remember Pearl Harbor". About half the people just looked at me like they didn't know what I was talking about. It's about the same as 911, most people just want to forget about it and go on enjoying their lives.
Intersting that when someone killed 2400 of our people in 1941 we went to war with all we had and killed them. 60 years later when the same thing happened, (or even worse considering all the dead were civilians), we got mad for a few months, and then everyone wants to forget it.
In the recent wikileaks release we found that Saudi Arabia is funding AlQueda to the tune of millions every year. I'm sure our intelligence people already knew this. And yet we do nothing about that. Pitiful. If you ask me, bombs should be falling in Mekka.
Weakness is provocative, and we are growing weaker everyday.
Intersting that when someone killed 2400 of our people in 1941 we went to war with all we had and killed them. 60 years later when the same thing happened, (or even worse considering all the dead were civilians), we got mad for a few months, and then everyone wants to forget it.
In the recent wikileaks release we found that Saudi Arabia is funding AlQueda to the tune of millions every year. I'm sure our intelligence people already knew this. And yet we do nothing about that. Pitiful. If you ask me, bombs should be falling in Mekka.
Weakness is provocative, and we are growing weaker everyday.
just another old geezer
Member
P.S. My father Lost friends at Pearl Harbor
If I had to explain it to you wouldn't understand. But I'll take one stab at educating you and I hope you don't embarrass yourself.
From Roosevelt:
Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with the government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.
Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleagues delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.
-------------------------------------------------
No declaration of war and it happened while they were negotiating an end to the trade embargo.
From Roosevelt:
Yesterday, Dec. 7, 1941 - a date which will live in infamy - the United States of America was suddenly and deliberately attacked by naval and air forces of the Empire of Japan.
The United States was at peace with that nation and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with the government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.
Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleagues delivered to the Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. While this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or armed attack.
-------------------------------------------------
No declaration of war and it happened while they were negotiating an end to the trade embargo.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
One of the biggest mistakes(among many) Hitler made was not realizing he had the fastest and best armed plane, the ME 262 jet. If Germany could have controlled the air, they would have won the war. They did control the air in the beginning. The US joining the allies added a lot more planes and air crews. The war in Afghanistan could be over but they don't want civilians killed by massive bombing. Dave
John Seasly
Member
Please remember the militay personel that were KIA and their families. And blame our government for selling all of us out to get into the war in Europe. This was the cost of getting the American people to support war in Europe. Another war more recently Iraq "weapons of mass destruction".
We should have joined Germany and destroyed USSR. But look at all the money lost without no Cold War? Finally why did we drop the bombs on Japan when the US government had broke the Japanese code. And in June 1945 the Japanese were asking Russia to help in getting a peace with the USA. Why did we kill 40000 German civilians with fire bombs when there were no militay targets there? And finally why did so many German POW's die while in our pow camps. Our government does not always were white hats like the good guys.
We should have joined Germany and destroyed USSR. But look at all the money lost without no Cold War? Finally why did we drop the bombs on Japan when the US government had broke the Japanese code. And in June 1945 the Japanese were asking Russia to help in getting a peace with the USA. Why did we kill 40000 German civilians with fire bombs when there were no militay targets there? And finally why did so many German POW's die while in our pow camps. Our government does not always were white hats like the good guys.
olgentdc
Well-known Member
Double Ditto agree ... May I also be in that Cuicle of student of the Truth of History .... Fdr knew USA had to get in that fight , and the sooner the better , before agreesion became so strong it could not be stopped ...
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
There also were NO military targets in London. Who were the first to bomb civilians??
Got what they deserved.the modern euphemism is collateral damage.
Got what they deserved.the modern euphemism is collateral damage.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
German people's will to continue the fight = military target.
German people worked in the factories producing bombs, planes, and tanks = military targets.
It would have been a lot less painful for them had the German people NOT decided to back Hitler to the bitter end. That's a decision they made. They had to live (and die) by that decision.
War is hell
German people worked in the factories producing bombs, planes, and tanks = military targets.
It would have been a lot less painful for them had the German people NOT decided to back Hitler to the bitter end. That's a decision they made. They had to live (and die) by that decision.
War is hell
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Ol' Tom 43 couldn't possibly be as dense as he tries to portray himself. Anyone that flippin' stupid couldn't even turn his computer on. He's CONSTANTLY posting his nonsense just to draw a negative response. It's called trolling. Everyone has SOME purpose in life. I'm still searching for a purpose for his existence.
Well...Maybe he IS that dense.
Well...Maybe he IS that dense.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I was on a troop ship--USS Wharton--in1945 that anchored off Leyte Gulf. I was sent to a navy supply base on Samar and then later to the 143rd Seabee outfit on Calicoan island. I was in the US Navy attached to the Seabee outfit. My tour of duty there consisted of guarding dynamite warehouses in the jungles and construction and material dumps. The war was over, however we were fired at by snipers. Roy
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