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double trouble in an accident from TV news

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News last night reported unusual situation. Bad traffic accident. First ambulance pulls up. Driver dead. Second ambulance pulls up and starts harvesting organs on the spot. Enough to make you go to driving school. This is TRUE. How long before bogus ambulances start chasing accidents and even causing them. Was that driver really DEAD? Who are the customers? Wife had trouble sleeping after that. I told here our organs are too old anyway.
 

Using words like "harvesting" makes it sound horrible. I'm guessing the person was an organ donor? But it does make one think that they would at least take the poor soul to the hospital first??
 
Got a news source on that? Only thing I found from a credible news agency (I checked CNN, Reuters, ABC, and Fox) indicates that it's a PILOT program in NYC that hasn't started yet, and is only for the purpose of getting the deceased to a hospital for kidney removal IF they are organ donors.
There are, however, a bunch of "conspiracy" oriented websites who claim this stuff as reality already.
CNN
 
Sounds odd, but dead is dead regardless, and if it helps another human...well I guess that is OK. I'm sure I can't base any sence to it, but hearing the whole story can change the picture fast.

A guy we call blind Tom, was pronounced dead twice, and is in good health other than being blind. WE tie into him just like any other guy, but I still often get a funny feeling when I think of it. If he had not twitched at the last moment, he would have died needlessly.

Anyone ever had the word wake, as in funeral home wake explained?

I would say the news media should have not reported such, or at least in a gross way.

Yet ---hey if it makes just one person slow down, and save a life??? Folks seem to think a ambulance can somehow make death go away.
 
Who pray tell believes this load of tripe?

No ambulance attendant, nurse or paramedic can pronounce death unless. The body is decapitated or decaying.
Harvest what organs, with what tools, in a non sterile environment without refrigerated storage?
Are there really people so without a clue who would even consider this story as possibly being true?
 
"he said he wadn't dead.but ya know how them___________lie" :roll:

Doctors are usually the first responders (before the ambulance) here. There is a small car supplied like a rolling emergency room that the doctor drives and the ambulance arrives shortly after. The doctor is able to maneuver through traffic better.
Can't see something like that happening in the States though. Too many sui happy folks.

Dave
 
That ambulance driver should be put on trial for something like that.
I would think harvesting organs would be the job of a hospital and family members, not a $20k per year EMS guy.
 
From the article:

[i:654c4848f0]'Donors must be between the ages of 18 and 60, must be disease-free and cannot have been involved in a violent event like a car crash, according to Dr. Lewis Goldfrank, director of emergency services at Bellevue Hospital in Manhattan, New York.

'The deceased must also first be identified as a registered donor through a donor card, a driver's license or an online registry, and the family will have to give their consent, officials said.

'"We have about 20 minutes to accomplish an agreement with a family member ... to say they affirm the wishes of the person who is deceased," Goldfrank said Wednesday in New York.

'If an agreement is reached, two-person organ preservation teams will begin cardiopulmonary resuscitation on the deceased person in an effort keep blood flowing to their organs during transport to Bellevue Hospital.'[/i:654c4848f0]

Sounds like a great idea to me.
 
Lady down the strreet lost her legs when a drunk driver hit her...She sued the guy and the judge threw the case out..said she didnt have a leg to stand on..
 
B&D, Unusual criteria for declaring death. I never heard those in my 20 years as an EMT. I declared people dead probably 4 times as an EMT. We were taught and protocol stated simply no pulse no life, and resuscitation was not attempted except in the case of witnessed cardiac arrest, or if arrest could be reasonably established to have occurred in less than 5 min. prior to start of CPR. I agree that the story is not credible. They may however, have supported the body in order to maintain viability of the organs.
 
I have a story to share that is true. I know a guy who went into a deep ditch. State Trooper was first to arrive. Called for Medevac chopper. EMTs arrived and told the State Trooper to cancel the helicopter because the driver was dead. State Trooper said: "No, we'll let the helicopter crew declare him dead". Patient was loaded on and flown to level one trauma center. Three months of therapy and he's as good as new.
 
I have no doubt that a paramedic can pronounce someone dead. There was a car accident here last week where someone was declered dead at the scene so I'd have to wager that there were no doctors attending... Do keep in mind that here the paramedics are well equipped with Blackberries and TMR radios and they are in contact with an attending when they're dealing with a serious case on scene... so i do beleive that a person can be declareed dead on scene... but I don't believe the crap about harvesting organs.
That would be done in an OR with prior consent...

Rod
 
I wrote a thesis on this subject about ten years ago for a class entitled "Economics of the Health Care System".

Unless things have changed, by law no money can change hands over organ donation. That's why it's referred to as "donation". In doing research for my thesis, I discovered a case where two doctors in Thailand were pulling the plug early on terminal patients and selling their organs on the black market. Both of them wound up in DEEP doo-doo.

BTW, I loved that class and got a lot out of it. Both the professor and I were older than people the textbooks referred to as "elderly". I needed one more 400 level Economics class at the time. This qualified and sounded more interesting than traditional economics where the prof draws charts and graphs all over the blackboard the entire class period.
 
Maybe in India or other foreign countries, but not in the US. I know a little bit about this subject having received a kidney transplant 19 years ago.

That scenario would not happen here. An ambulance crew would not have the capability to do this on scene.

Just plain not possible.

Sorry, Gene
 
In most states the Coroner declares death even if the body is rotted. The coroners have more power than the police chief in most jurisdictions.
 
Yep, that would be ol' clueless me. Loathe (and ill equipped) as I am to argue with B&D, who is a very smart guy, I humbly submit the following.

There was a fairly extensive news story on this- CNN, I think- its a "pilot project" that certainly is getting some bad press. Second ambulance has specially qualified people, and rolls just for the purpose of organ harvest. Deceased has to have organ donor card, next of kin still have to give approval, etc.- there seem to be plenty of safeguards.

I've never understood why everyone gets so hinky about organ donation. Its just your earthly body, and not of much use when the spirit's gone. Better to help someone live, than just be a moulderin' in the grave, IMHO.
 
Maybe not legally dead, which around 'here' requires a coroner or MD; maybe just fysically dead, as in, no heartbeat, no pulse, decapitated, etc. I can see it........"I done tole you, his body's in the car and his head's over thar in the ditch; I think he's dead."
 
I don't know about being true but it was on the news this morning. And I think it was Chicago. I wasn't paying close attention until they showed the second emergency vehicle showing up.
 
I understand it"s illegal to sell an organ (other than the musical kind) here; I also understand that organ replacement is highly lucrative from the medical providers end.
I seem to recall an article on the subject, from the next-of-kin to the prospective donor"s viewpoint, that unless you"re 500% certain there"ll be no sickness/death etc medical and/or hospital etc billings, you take the position that "in such a time of shock and stress it"s just impossible to think about donating organs when these terrible hospital etc charges are hanging over me", and see what"s suggested by the people holding out a pen for you to sign away organs...
 
Hey, didn't you ever see the movie "Crank High Voltage?"

They make organ transplanting look easy. Counry-western guy Dwight Yoakam does a great job of doing an ad-hoc heart transplant.

If it's in a movie, it must be true.
 
Years ago it was customary for someone to stay with the body day and night, from embalming until the funeral service. Thus the person on "graveyard shift" had to stay awake.........eventually the reviewal became known as the wake.
 
I know some EMT's really well, and they will transport someone to the hospital even if they're dead, just so they don't have to do the paperwork!
 
What station was this story on? What city and state?

I read that in a European country (don't recall which one) they are doing this for kidneys, unless you file an objection they assume that you agree to be an organ donor.

The article stated that it was unlikely to happen in this country.
 
I heard this story on the radio last Thursday or Friday. Not sure how it happened, but the story as told last week was that two ambulances were dispatched. One would have rushed a live patient to the hospital, and the second would have rushed the corpse to the refridgerator or freezer, how ever that works, before the organs began to become unusable. That was the story, and I think the patient ambulance was fire department, which can't do the harvest thing, so must have been a private company that did the harvest thing. How they knew to be there, I don't recall the story saying. I heard the story on WLS-AM Radio out of Chicago.

Mark
 
Believe it! We didn't have MEs with us in the truck, any more than any other Dept. Once we called them we had to wait for the ME to show up. It was a pain to sit and wait for them to show up, but we signed up for the job. The ER staff wasn't likely to believe you if you showed up with a three part patient and you claimed that you thought that you were going to bring them back.
 
Believe it! We didn't have MEs with us in the truck, any more than any other Dept. Once we called them we had to wait for the ME to show up. It was a pain to sit and wait for them to show up, but we signed up for the job. The ER staff wasn't likely to believe you if you showed up with a three part patient and you claimed that you thought that you were going to bring them back.
 
Put your name with it and tell me what YOU think happens on scene when the patient is obviously dead. You have to do what you are trained to do and not pretend that you are going to save someone who is obviously dead. Then you wait for the Medical examiner to show up and make your decision official and then you live with your decision.
RodNS has common sense.
 
Fox News, Detroit area, Michigan. Didn't mean to upset anyone. Only telling what was announced and hoping someone else had some info, which they do have. Wouldn't bother me. Long as I was dead and could help somebody else with my 67 year old parts. Dave
 
I think it could be true, saw a report on TV where, because of the shortage of parts, some Countries,Counties, States etc are about to or have authorised collection without NOK approval.did mention 2 Ambulances going to same scene, second one to collect. Not enough Donors apparently. Also heard where some Registered Donors have had their wishes overturned by NOK.They did mention that if they waited for the Ambulance to convey the body to the morgue a lot of the parts would have spoiled, the second Ambulance has systems to preserve them hence working at the scene also it is done with dignity .No store window approach.
 
Please read my post above. The driver, who is alive and well today thanks to an on the spot decision by a State Trooper and prompt response by the helicopter crew which was staffed with a flight nurse and a flight paramedic, was determined to be dead by the EMTs who arrived, fortunately, after the State Trooper. It is difficult for me to believe that an EMT can routinely make such a decision. Especially in cold climates. "They're not dead until they're warm and dead."
 
Being a paramedic for the past 20+ years, I can say-Yes, I have declared multiple people dead (and not just those obvious, having injuries incapatible with life). The caveat is, we have protocols with our medical director that allow us to honor DNR's and also to cease resuscitations after intial electical/drug interventions with a phone consult (if available).
Today, in many places, the medics are essentially a mini ER (minus dr's/rn's) with 12- lead EKG, ventilators, cardiac meds and medics that have the training to perform some skills that some states' RN's don't normally do (chest decompression, intubations).
Not to say that this is the case everywhere- but for a lot of the population- EMS has come a long way from just 'Load and Go' or band-aid jockeys!
 
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