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larger oil filter, more pressure on the gauge

B

buickanddeere

Well-known Member
I was half surprised when tossing the little muffin sized factory spec oil filter on the van's 4.3 Chev. For the much longer Wix 51036.
Using the same viscosity oil. Idle pressure is approx 5 psi higher. Pressure at cruise is 60psi, never used to see pressure over 45psi at any time.
Seen some change but not as dramatic with the 6.0L chev when using the larger Wix 51045.
 
Lloyd may be on to something here. If the filter you used has a different more restrictive flow than original specs, then your engine may be starving for oil even though you see more oil pressure on the guage. There is more to filters than size; things like particle size, flow rate, pressure relief valve setting, etc. Might better chek out the specs of the original versus the larger one you used. Tom
 

Could be, the oil has more chance to loose some heat...
That, and the fact that there will be another Pint of oil in the system..
Sounds good..!
I much prefer the larger filter, when there is room for one..

Ron..
 
If your new larger filter has a lower flow rate with more filtration and more restriction, then the oil pressure you are reading my be the pressure to push the oil through the non-spec filter (and in a full flow filtering system),thus getting less oil flow through the bearings and other engine components. Tom
 
Like putting your finger on the end of a hose,,,, more pressure,,,, less water flowing. Trick is to max flow (not create restriction in the filter) but yet perform filtering. Very important in high performance engines (race motors) learned about this the expensive way.
 
And your oil may be better filtered also.

A 15 psi head of pressure across the filter, especially with cold oil, may have been opening the filter bypass valve allowing more unfiltered oil to pass through your engine.

Would be curious to know if both filters had the same micron filter media?
 
(quoted from post at 12:42:19 11/22/10) I would be worried about that, more pressure = restriction in the filter reducing flow.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Some filters have a pressure relief valve built into them. Just because any given filter WILL fit, does not mean it is correct for that application. Years ago I owned a 1980 Ford Fiesta. Oil filters were somewhat hard to find, and sometimes I had to be happy with the "will fit" version instead of the exact filter for a 1980 Ford Fiesta, and yes, there was a difference in the resulting oil pressure. In this case, the "correct" filter gave better pressure.
 
Already checked that.Neither factory spec or
oversize filters have relief valves.
I already listed the part numbers, you can check
yourself at WIX or Fram.
Only difference in the filters is longer and more
square inches of filtration area.
 
Since you are measuring the pressure down stream of the filter, the new filter has less pressure drop, all other parameters(same oil viscosity, same oil temperature, etc.) being equal.
 
I wouldn't worry about it unless the new filter shows signs of bulging due to too much pressure. You can check that by looking at the flat spot on the top (closed) end. That flat spot is there for a reason. If it's rounded or bulged out, you're getting to much pressure to it. That's usually caused by the pressure regulating valve. You should be able to take off your old used filter and set it upside down on a flat surface. If it rolls over, it's been exposed to too much pressure which can cause rupture or gasket failure.
 
The less restriction (like resistance) to flow the less pressure drop (like voltage drop) ACROSS the filter SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD THING TO ME. Id prefer to drop the most pressure through the circuit that lubes the bearings then in the oil filter.

A bigger less restrictive filter drops less pressure so theres more pressure left over to force oil through the bearings circuit.

If your arteries are clogged it takes more pressure and work outa the old ticker to maintain blood flow i.e. you have high blood pressure now thats a badddddddddddd thing

John T
 
Wix filters tested out well in the oil filter test. Fram near the worst. When I just changed brands I got a noticable pressure increase on my vehicles. Most near 5lbs.
 
In the engine, it has a fixed displacement pump. The pump moves almost the same CC's per rev at all pressures (internal leakage does increase as the pressure goes up). If the pressure gets too high theres a relief valve in there somewhere downstream of the pump (often on the pump body).

If your pressure sender is before the filter, a higher reading can be caused by a non bypass type filter, a plugged filter, or finer filter media.

If the sender is after the filter, a higher reading means less restriction in the filter.
 
Lots of thoughts and theories here, my guess would be since hydraulics don't compress, no matter how big of filter you put on it, if you push in 100lbs, a 100lbs comes out.
filter tests
 
" checked that.Neither factory spec or
oversize filters have relief valves."

Has to be a filter bypass valve somewhere, the older Chevy V8's, had the bypass valve in the filter base on the block.
 
All engines have a pressure relief valve, and most filters have a pressure by-pass valve.
OEM or equal is safe. Very few filters, filter all the oil from the pump. Esp if the oil is very cold. A super duty filter MAY help. A can filter will explode at 100-200 psi.
 
to my knowledge the oem filters are a smaller micron than jobber filters. also full flow or bypass?
 
The over pressure relief has to be between the pump and filter on these Chev's.
There is no internal bypass within either of these filters.
The extra oil pressure at the engine oil galleries is due to less delta P across the filter media.
 
Hello buickanddeere,
Volume is more important then pressure.
Cummins engines used to have 100# oil pressure when cold and 60# or better at full load/speed when hot.
When the low rpm engine came out the oil pressure was reduced to 45#, the pick up line from the oil pan to the oil pump went from aeroquip 10 or 12 to a 20.
You have now a better capacity to filter, that is a good thing. Now add extra oil to make up for the new filter size.
Guido.
 
Fellows it is his motor and if it goes to he11 it is his problem, and we will never know because he will not admit that he did wrong.
 
Hmmmm, doubt it,

I don't wanna rain on anyone's parade, but your "read out conclusion" is well, just an assumption.

The so-called 'gauges' on these newer vehicles are little more than a pretty "everything is okay/don't worry 'bout it" icon on your dash.

Nothing more than a modern version of the old idiot light and have very little to do with real oil pressure values going on in that engine.

Once the engine starts and the initial pressure develops (usually about 8 lbs), the computer takes over and throws a 'random/good/it's okay' figure/dial-sweep at your eyes just to make you feel all fuzzy and warm inside. A comfortable 'stroking', if you will.

Hard wire a good old fashioned gauge into the engine oil galley and you'll see there is absolutely no difference in oil pressure due to a different filter. None.

The physical filtering circuits are a bleed off oil, seconday to oil lube circuits and they actually only run roughly 5-10% of the oil volume pumped thru the filter.

Don't take my word for it; ask any factory trained tech. You're seeing what the computer wants you to see.

The fact that you're seeing a difference between filter A and filter B reinforces my point. The sensor is located/reading a filter circuit and not the engine oil galley pressure like you'd think.

Allan
 
Why would the factory write software to fake varying oil pressure from idle up to cruise rpm?
I actually do have the factory service manual for the GN, the old Jimmy and the Sierra.
The dash gauge is wired to the inputs of the ECM or VCM. Not to the outputs.
Folks it's a pretty simple example of fluid dynamics.
Hasn't damaged anything during the past 6000 miles on either engine.
 
(quoted from post at 17:05:32 11/22/10) Hmmmm, doubt it,

I don't wanna rain on anyone's parade, but your "read out conclusion" is well, just an assumption.

The so-called 'gauges' on these newer vehicles are little more than a pretty "everything is okay/don't worry 'bout it" icon on your dash.

Nothing more than a modern version of the old idiot light and have very little to do with real oil pressure values going on in that engine.

Once the engine starts and the initial pressure develops (usually about 8 lbs), the computer takes over and throws a 'random/good/it's okay' figure/dial-sweep at your eyes just to make you feel all fuzzy and warm inside. A comfortable 'stroking', if you will.

Hard wire a good old fashioned gauge into the engine oil galley and you'll see there is absolutely no difference in oil pressure due to a different filter. None.

The physical filtering circuits are a bleed off oil, seconday to oil lube circuits and they actually only run roughly 5-10% of the oil volume pumped thru the filter.

Don't take my word for it; ask any factory trained tech. You're seeing what the computer wants you to see.

The fact that you're seeing a difference between filter A and filter B reinforces my point. The sensor is located/reading a filter circuit and not the engine oil galley pressure like you'd think.

Allan
Click to expand...

But how does that explain the differences in oil pressure on that 1980 Ford Fiesta? Granted, it did use an electric sending unit instead of the mechanical oil pressure gauge, but a 1980 Ford Fiesta did not have an on-board computer.
 
Look again B&D. You will find there is a spring at the end of the filter cartridge. This spring allows the cartridge to be lifted off the base allowing unfiltered oil to the engine. All engine oil filters have a spring of some sort. If the filter were to plug, and there were no internal relief, bye bye engine.
 


Part Number: 51045
UPC Number: 765809510456
Principal Application: GM Family of Cars V-8 (77-92)
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 13/16-16
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Beta Ratio: 2/20=14/32
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 9-11 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.730 2.430 0.190





Part Number: 51036
UPC Number: 765809510364
Principal Application: GM Cars + Trucks (80-05), Mercruiser, Volvo-Penta
All Applications
Style: Spin-On Lube Filter
Service: Lube
Type: Full Flow
Media: Paper
Height: 4.828
Outer Diameter Top: 2.921
Outer Diameter Bottom: Closed
Thread Size: 18X1.5 MM
By-Pass Valve Setting-PSI: None
Anti-Drain Back Valve: Yes
Beta Ratio: 2/20=12/26
Burst Pressure-PSI: 325
Max Flow Rate: 7-9 GPM
Nominal Micron Rating: 21

Gasket Diameters
Number O.D. I.D. Thk.
Attached 2.734 2.430 0.226
 
ron8,
My son had a high pressure or volume oil pump on his 65 Mustang and evidently the pressure relief didn't work as the Motorcraft oil filter was really stretched out at the bottom. I bet that it lengthened it by almost 1/2" at the bottom but it did not leak. I always wondered how much pressure that filter had on it. I think that I still have the filter.
 
B&D, Allan is correct depending on the model year. After the 99 model year(full size trucks), gauge info is transmitted to instrument cluster via serial data from the PCM. You didn't state what year your van is.
 
Allan, I can't speak for any other manufacturer but Dodge gauges were what we called "dumb" gauges. That is they were driven to settings by the body controller. We actually reset the zero's. The DRB III scan tool allowed us to reset all the guages where they looked right to the driver. To save on posting, filters can be restrictive and reduce volume, but in an enclosed system pressure is equal and undiminished in all directions. It's Blase Pascal's theory. Gerard
 
rustyfarmall,
Your 1980 Ford Fiesta probably had the old oil gauge that did show the differences in pressure. At some point back there Ford changed the oil gauge indicator to an on -off switch. Here is what the manual says about one setup.
When the engine oil pressure is normal, the oil pressure switch is closed (short circuit), allowing current flow through the 20-ohm resistor on the cluster flexible circuit into the gauge which drives the pointer to a position slightly above midscale. The switch opens (open circuit) when oil pressure drops to a critically low level (4.5 - 7.5 psi) causing movement of the pointer to or below the "L" band
 
Then why did the oil pressure change with the different filters?
If the gauges were driven dumb from the ecm. Reducing delta P across the filtering media. Would have no impact upon the panel display(s).
Oil gallery pressure would increase if the oil pump relief valve spent less time open or open less with the reduced restriction filter.
The restriction to oil flow would be reduced in the filter. Thus increasing pressure in the engine's oil galleries if the lube gallery passges/orfices metering stayed constant.
 
Anybody remember toilet paper filter? They were reported to lower oil pressure. Cost about 40 dollars, too.
 

I'm with buickanddeere on this one.

I had an '01 GMC Sonoma, that probably has the same gauge as B&D's Chevy. In the wintertime it would show 60lbs until it warmed up and then would settle around 40lbs.
In the hot summertime it would sometimes go below 40, and when idling, drop to around 20. But the gauge would always show a variance.
I'm fully convinced that it was a real gauge. I can't see a "dumb" gauge doing this.

My F-150 has the "dumb" gauge. It always stays at the same place when the engine is running. No matter if idling, winter or summer, it's always the same.

I think that the "dumb" gauges that the manufacturers are putting off on us nowadays is an insult to our intelligence, but that's another story. :x
 
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