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OT TSA

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Fullthrottle

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I personally hardly ever fly because I enjoy the journey as much as the destination so I don't know that I'm qualified to complain. But what's everbodys take on how far the TSA should go? Myself I think you should have to bring a pistol to be allowed to board, no hijacker takes out 240 armed passengers. All we would need is the bomb equipment and luggage scanning. But I have been accused of being a radical. Thoughts?
 
Profiling.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck........

All the Goodie-Two-Shoes have this country bound up like a gut twisted bull. :>)

Allan
 
One problem I have is doubt it will be applied EQUALLY and not be discriminatory based on religion or ethnic origin. I fear if nnalert or Arabs complain they will get a pass (Gotta be Politically Correct n NOT profile the left tells us) while if Christians or Caucasians do they will likely be arrested. THAT DONT SOUND LIKE EQUAL TREATMENT AND NON DISCRIMINATORY TO ME NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

John T
 
I wouldnt mind being patted down by a hot female.

Seriously though. Our armed forces guys in uniform should be at all airports, power plants, subway stations, points of interest in their last year of active duty somewhere in the USA. Basically a fella would be doing homeland security in his last year of service.

What Am I Saying.......That would make sense.
 
Talked to a lady the other day. Just got back from from a flight. Said she will never fly again. Next time she is going by train.
 
If you don't want to scan do the pat down, if you don't want either NO FLY. Pretty simple.
 
They finally decided that the pilots don't need to be searched before they get on the airplane. I wonder why it took so long for them to figure out that the pilot didn't need a gun or bomb to crash a plane.
 
It's not like anybody is being forced for fly. People squawk and complain about their "rights" until a plane is taken down somewhere - and then the blame game starts about how security is too lax. What a bunch of nonsense.

I suggest planes offer two types of flights. One cheaper -with no security and "anything goes." The other much more expensive with very intrusive searches. After a few terrorist related deaths - I wonder which version gets the most business?

The whiners today seem to have incredibly short memories. Maybe it's from all the anti-depressants. When the Pentagon and World Trade Center got hit- it was ALL the government's fault for not having more security. Then, it only took a month for people to start complaining about intrusive searches again.

Also - about profiling as to ethnicity and religion? I say heck yes. Use logistics and focus more on those that are more apt to commit terrorism. Check everybody - yes -but give more attention where it's more logically due. Christians haven't been preaching about killing "infidels" since the Old Testament's ink was still wet. Nor have the practicing jews. But - how many nnalert DO teach about targetting infidels?
 
They say it's for the passenger's safety. If they'd let me carry my .45, I'd take care of my own safety.
 
That is my idea also, two different flights, no security on one and tight on the other. Wonder what the crew would consist of though.
 
i think everyone including airplane staff should have to get on the plane naked & stay that way
security would be airtight, & flights a lot more interesting
probably wouldn"t need the movies
bob
 
Well, not exactly. The ECS system on a 737 can keep the cabin pressure at 8,000 ft even with a huge hole in the fuselage, equal to about 10 sq inches. A bullet hole would not even be noticed.
 
Well, it's pretty simple. If I was in charge of a terrorist group, I'd stake out a few airports and determine what percent of people get the "enhanced screening". That would tell me what my odds of getting thru are. I'd then send enough bombers thru that at least one would make it. The remaining ones would be directed to detonate their bombs as soon as they were told to go thru the scanner, and to take out as many security people as possible. And on the plane where the guy got thru, every man on that plane could die secure in the knowledge that his wife and children had a chance to be violated by TSA officers before they died.
 
Well, before this thread gets the axe, here's my two cents. Glenn Beck said it well, we should do what the Israeli's and El Al do. Profile. You don't see any of those planes getting hijacked. They have real professionals trained to do the job, not some civil service chump or an ex Walmart security worker. They are able to weed out the suspicious ones and question and search them so some 80 year old nun or a 3 year old toddler don't have to get violated. Metal scanners are fine, but these new xray machines and intimate pat downs are wrong!
 
Finally a topic here that I feel I can somewhat intelligently talk about. I am a Captain for a major airline.(I have a JD 2940, raise horses and hay. I like talking and learning from guys like you who remind me of my Dad-that's why I'm here) The new full body scanners subject us all to extra high levels of radiation. In a normal 5 hour flight, I get the equivalent of 20 chest x-rays in radiation. Multiply that by the number of days I work a year and you begin to see why pilots have a higher rate of skin cancers, prostate cancer, and other wierd cancers.
So I will refuse to go through the full body scan. What then are my options? A full pat down search. I will allow that but only in an area away from public view. That is my right. I base my decision on several things, modesty, but I am trying not to tarnish the professional image that the public has of us guys up front(In my little mind is just looks bad and unprofessional for the TSA to tell my passengers that I can't be trusted to not bring a weapon to work. That is what a pat down in public view means to me). The people they hire for the job are not in any way the cream of the crop in terms of professionalism, and attitude. Do you mind that your wife or daughter is being touched by someone she doesn't know without her permission. Do you really think that that nice looking lady in the next line has to have her bags searched because "something" looked funny. So Merv the perv takes her bag back to the rear tables, out of her sight to hand check all her belongings. It won't be till she get home that night till she discovers some of her underwear missing. But congress and the TSA says it's OK for this guy to pat down your daughter. (The way I understand it is if there is no female TSA agent available then a male can pat down a female passenger)
To my knowlegdge, there are only 3 airports in the entire nation that allow PILOTS to bypass screaning. They require 2 ID's and a computer check. It is much slower than the screening. Now If I were Abdul, the guy who puts the peanuts on the plane, I can bypass security at will, and my lunch box, and backpack are never screened. If Abdul wants to send a timed explosive device on a UPS or FEDX flight, NO problem All he has to do is tell the clerk that there is nothing bad in the box. It is not screened or sniffed or sampled. They take his word that all in fine. BS
The disconnect between political correctness and reality is absurd at times. IN my daily work, I tend to err on the conservative side of caution. That's how I sleep at night.
In spite of the FAA and TSA, the airlines are safe. Very safe. Why????? MONEY It is very costly to have any kind of security incident from a fight on board between two drunks all the way up to the attempted shoe bombing and 911. Airlines don't want a bunch of law suits. They don't want to scare away the paying public. Your money makes them make it safe. Captialism at work doing what it is supposed to do.
 
There are plenty of places around the world that hardly check anything or anybody when boarding (99.9% of African and Middle Eastern countries) and those same people and bags change planes all over europe and travel to the USA with no additional screening. There is no such thing as absolute control of the process, much less the skies.
 
And the Isreali flight crew has been known to carry firearms-and use them. Leila Kalid says that"s a no-no because it disrupts revolutionary activities-like when her crew tried to hyjack the Isreali jet in Switzerland and most were killed, one by pilot with Uzi. RN.
 
I would take the cheaper-no security=anything goes flight as long as the "anything goes" includes my (and anyone else"s) pistol who wants to provide his own security. TDF
 
Not likely, the cabin pressure is only a few PS, and the aircraft skin pretty tough aluminum.

The" Myth busters " crew tried to make a pressurized aircraft blow out, and could not do it with about any kind of firearm you could carry aboard an aircraft.
 
As JDE says no one forces us to fly, if I WANTED to fly I'd dance naked on the tarmac if thats what it took to get on. That said,I think the two airline deal is the answer. Problem is if the anything goes one allows smoking the other would be bankrupt in a month.(I don't smoke just stateing facts)Lastly about this post getting the axe. At least I didn't ask about welding.
 
Did myth busters take into account the outside air rushing past the jaged edges of the hole at 500 miles per hour or the chance of taking out a window???. Any Idea where I'd find this myth buster episode???
 
Ok as you are a Captain why then with your Professional training, Why would you not be allowed to carry a gun. the same as any Guard or police officer. I wouldn't feel threatened or intimidated
Knowing some one would have some type of protection on board.

Maybe even stewardesses could be nice and slip fast acting/ or permanent sleeping pills in a terrorist coffee.

How about a 007 drop away floor in cabin area to let unwanted passenger off in flight.
Or realistically have some type of safety device built into plane that will put every one on board to sleep. so you can land.You guys have oxygen.
 
It will be interesting to see what happens when CAIR sends the first test cases through the TSA screeners wearing traditional female nnalert attire.

Stay tuned.

Dean
 
I prefer tha name that they were going to give them to start with, Federal Air Traffic Airport Security Service. Trouble was,the acronym didn't look good across the back of their jackets.
 
Not true.

nnalert terrorists have already started hiding bombs in body orifices.

BMAO may soon enter the vernacular.

You heard it here first.

Dean
 
I can't wait for them to begin strip searches...might go through security more than once or wait for a good looking babe to go ahead of me.
 
Whats gonna happen when someone walks in and blows up a city bus or a subway or a mall or even a church? Will we then have to walk through a scanner or be groped down before we walk into any of those places? Motivation by fear...Does someone in the Government have ties to the x-ray machines? Michael Chertoff?
 
Roy, I agree we should be allowed to carry a firearm but the FAA says different. I have to take a week off without pay, go to New Mexico on my own and attend a week long school. Then I am allowed to carry a weapon with me. I must keep it locked and secured out of sight until the cockpit door is locked behind me. Every 6 months I must go on my own time to requalify.
As to the sleeping gas in the aircraft, The air systems are such that there is no way to keep gass/smoke from the main cabin out of the cockpit are. You don't want me sleeping when I'm trying to land.
 
Another thing I forgot. We have several pilots who have gone through the training and who carry their weapon with them. They cannot take their guns with them even locked and hidden, overseas. That includes Canada and Mexico. They can only have a pistol with them in the airplane on domestic flights. That makes so much sense to me. How many times has the US been attacked by those nasty terrorists from Rhode Island.
 
I expect the FAA and TSA to keep me safe, reguardless of x-rays, pat-downs or what ever it takes. Could the large hand gun with the right ammo, in the hands of a crazy bring down an airplane by shooting out the windows or putting a round into the jet engine or hydraulics or any other place for that matter?
 
LOL no I wouldn't want you sleeping unless there is a system that an airport could land you, but if you had your own reserve oxygen bottle in cock pit you may have time to use it .controlled by a two way valve system that no one knew about.and easily accessed without raising anyone's suspicions.
 
This whole security thing is out-of-control. My son flew to South Africa for a study abroad program summer 2008. Once he passed the security point, we couldn't go with him. We had no way of knowing if he even got on the flight for sure. Same with my 92-year-old dad when he flew to see my brother in Denver. We couldn't go with him either to help him get to the right gate, etc.

Nuns, three-year-olds, pilots, grandmas, and other sre not blowing up planes. It's radical nnalert. He!! yes, profile them. Look at their passport. Where have they been? How long ago? Check their background. Be proactive, not stupidly reactive. Does anyone really think banning ink cartridges from Yemen set the bad guys back? Forget the PC garbage.

Larry
 
No. There are redundant load paths in any case. The skin is attached to frames, and there are tear straps that keep any tears from propogating past a frame. And if it was simply a bullet hole, the torn metal wouldn't stick out very far, so it wouldn't be in the free air stream.
 
And the windows are pretty thick, and made of some very tough plastic. I'm not sure that a 9mm would go thru. Even if it did, the airplane is built to fly even if the cabin loses pressure. The passengers would be very uncomfortable, but the pilot and copilot would simply put on their oxygen masks and descend to lower altitude.
 
Airliners are generally pressurized to at least 8,000 ft for passenger comfort. The structure is tested to about 25 psi in the factory. That's a last test to verify integrity of things like door seals before it's delivered.
 
Profile nnalert.

Interview them. Search them if questionable. X-ray them. Hire ex military, or use active duty to screen them.

Problem over.
 
I have NEVER flown commercial, NEVER WILL, but all who do are the biggest bunch of whiners in the world. Folks, if it is so difficult why are you flying. There are Cars, Buses and Trains. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO TRAVEL BY AIR. If half of the whiners would STOP flying the whole commercial airline passenger system would collapse.
If I ever did fly, I would much prefer that 50% of the people on the plane had Concealed Carry permits and they were PACKING.

Kent
 
I agree with you.Sawed off shotgun too.Maybe the airline should be made to give you some ammo that wouldnt go through the outside of the plane.Then after the ammo was passed out,anybody that looks suspicious while still on the ground has their guns taken away.
Then all thats left to do is x ray the cargo good enough to where they cant get any explosives on.Also they ought to rig planes with an air lock so if they do get a hijacker they can put him in the air lock and then pull the floor out from under him.I bet they will quit hijacking or trying to hijack a plane when everybody has a gun on there and they could get thrown off.

Or they can give everybody a bracelet like I read somewhere and if they get out of line shock the heck out of them.
 
A jet air liner burns as much fuel in one hour as I use in 5 years in my furnace.I cant remember the number in the air at one time but I know its over 3 thousand.All airlines claim they are losing money so why do they have so many planes flying?
 
AAAHHH YES good old TSA workers. Now McD and the other burger flippers will have a constant pay day with all kinds rights to be not fired. I gave up flying after the 911 thing started. My friend today related to me a story about throwing this keys coins and two knives in the basket and zip the TSA type sitting on the screen missed them. He placed the knives in his pocket and boarded the flight. I worked an Xray screen for many years at OHare way before 911 and most don't know what they are looking at.
 
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