O.T. Chain Saw advice

Good morning to all,

Got the day off and taking a few minutes to look at chain saws. I am looking at a Stihl 650 to use on the property to cut some big oaks damaged by hurricanes. My brother had loaned me his Husky 395XP but I had to get it back to him. So, having used that one, I'm looking for a similar sized saw. (Also heard that current production Huskys aren't as good as a few years ago...)

Anyone have opinions on the Stihl 650 or other Stihl models with plenty of power? I have to cut some trunks with 36" diameter and my old XL-12s aren't up to the task. Thanks.

Get a sthil Hayou probably need the 460 mag or 660 magnum saw . You cant find parts for husky

Speaking of Huskies, I recently bought a new Stihl from one of the larger dealers around. At the time, he had both Stihl and Huskies. Next time I was in the store, they'd dropped Huskies and had taken on Echo to go along with Stihl.

The owner said Huskies had been going downhill.

I'd stay with Stihl. The one I wound up with has Stihl's "Easy2Start" feature. They don't offer it on all saws, but as far as I'm concerned it's worth several times the $40 extra.

Id go with a Stihl also, Iv got the ms460,034 and a ms180. All have been great saws. We have really abused the ms180 and it still runs good. Some of my help are rough with it, but its lasted.

I've had nothing but good luck with my Huskies. Currently have 3 plus a little electric for inside work. Biggest one I have is a 372xp with a 32" bar. Cut many cords of firewood, never done anything to it but fill the gas & oil, brush off the air filter from time to time and file the chains.

I had heard that it was the Stihls that had been losing quality. So I think it's just a Ford-Chevy debate. The REAL loggers(guys that run their saws ALLL DAY) around here I see mostly have Huskies in their crummies.

Ben

The problem with many name-brand new saws is - they see more profit in the homeowner market. So, Stihl and Husky make many cheap, all-plastic saws. They also still make better pro-saws that are very expensive. Stihl has a factory in China now to make some of the parts for consumer-type saws. Husky is owned by the same company that sells the Poulans.

I was a Sthil mechanic before Stihl even had an official presence in the USA, and am still using several Stihl saws that are 40 years old. But, not all they make is solid and rugged anymore.

If you do NOT cut hard, all day long, then many cheap plastic saws will do you well. If you cut hard and long, you better find yourself a saw with a metal crankcase and NOT plastic. Ask or research before you buy a new Sthil or Husky. Get them too hot (plastic models) and the main-bearing mounts melt and come loose in the plastic.

One of the best saws for the money right now - IF you can find one - is a Deere CS56. Made in Italy by Efco and is a true proffesional-grade saw. I bought two on close-out deals for $300 each. There are still a few Deere dealers around with new-old-stock selling them off. 56 cc, all ball bearings on the crankshaft, metal crankcase and metal bar cover. Good luck finding and Stihl or Husky with those features for that price. The CS56 will greatly out-cut any XL12 Homelite.

Second to that is a Dolmar. Buy a blue one with the Makita name stuck on it, and you might find a deal. DSC510 is an excellent pro-saw. Again, all metal and ball-bearing. Dolmar, technically, has been making saws longer then Stihl, but kept their business mostly in Europe. $350 is a good price for a DSC510, but many places charge more.

I wound up with both a Stihl and Husqvarna, both from the old days, early 1990s ha, and they both have given good service. The local Stihl dealer stocks more stuff and has a better shop but really few things are needed except chains and bars. I tend to like the Husquvarna a little better because I can put it down and move brush and it will idle it's little heart out for any length of time where the Stihl sometimes just quits when idling when it feels like it. Paul

I've got a "real logger" working on my place right now, cutting several dozen cherry trees and a couple very big walnuts. They have nothing but Stihl saws.

You won't find Stihl at Lowes or Tractor Supply, but you WILL find discount model Husky's. Low cost "department store saws" have hurt the Husky rep.

I've got several Stihl saws and have nothing but good things to say about them. My favorite is the MS260PRO. Not a big saw, but a very productive one.

Heres a pic I posted last winter of my ms460 after I cut down this 20" dead ash tree.

Both Stihl and Husky have "homeowner grade" saws. Here on the west coast you find both brands at the big box stores.

Any reputable dealer will tell you the difference between the pro and homeowner machines. You can't even buy a pro grade saw at a big box store.

They're both good brands, I'm sure. Like anything, I'd go with the best dealer support. I happen to have a good relationship with my Husky dealer. NOT because I have been in for repairs. I've had NONE. He also sells Carhart clothes, so I'm in there for that, I buy all my consumables from him-chains, files, bar oil, 2 stroke mix etc. He'd rather see me get the right product than make a buck off of me. He's sent me across town rather than sell me somethin I won't be happy with.

Ben

Stihl has homeowner grade saws, but you can't buy 'em anywhere but a Stihl dealer from what I've been told. (Which now includes John Deere dealers) Husky is carried at Lowes, TSC, and a few others. (Home Depot has Echo) Stihl still keeps their products sorta exclusive for whatever that's worth. In the end, I won't have ANYONE's "consumer grade" saws. Buying top of the line Pro models is money well spent regardless of which brand you pick.

As mentioned, Stihl is now the "in house brand" for John Deere dealers.

Specific Stihl's are much better than others, I'll still like them. But the best big saw I've ever had is my Dolmar. It is a horse. Am I right, is there one model that sends the exhaust through the handle as a hand warmer??
I don't know why I jumped ship on Stihl for a couple saws at work, but I have two little Echo trim saws that go go go all the time. They were a lot cheaper than stihl's at the time if I remember and work great.

Kevin,

I've got to make this point. If you've got to ask questions about what saw to buy I doubt you've got enough experience to be cutting wind damaged timber. Wind damaged trees are extremely unpredictable and dangerous. Please be careful

Do you guys have the Emerald Ash Borer bug in NY now.?

In Michigan is has ravaged millions of Ash trees. (all mine are dead)

With all this talk about pro models, just don't trust a Poulan "Pro" 295. Nothing but trouble for me and the parts seem to interchange with their Crapsman model 46cc with 20" bar. Nothing Pro about the Pullin pro 295 except the name.

Yes we have it, and the initial infestation was blamed on a Michigan nurseryman who got caught illegally shipping trees to New York. Not that I really think it matters. They were going to get here, one way or the other.

Just like you can't legally truck firewood from one peninsula to the other across the Mac Bridge, we now have similar laws here in New York. One State politician wants to make it a law that all firewood sold anywhere has to be kiln-dried.

I've got a couple of them I bought as cheap throw-away saws and they've been great - once I tore off the adjuster-limiters on the carb.

The older "Sears Best" 55 cc saws were also very good and were actually Poulan Pro 3.3 cube saws.

Now with Sears? Last 55 cc saw I got from Sears was made in Malaysia - same piece of junk the Cub Cadet and MTD was selling. Absolutely the worst saw I've ever seen. NOT a Poulan.

I changed brands a few years ago when Stihl ticked me off. I was a Stihl mechanic for over 30 years and know something about them. Best Stihl I ever owned is my 045 Super. All metal and extremely rugged. I got it early 80s. Cut all summer every summer until last year -i.e. 2009. Almost 30 years of use with no major repairs. But, when the ignition module died - and Sthil USA told me there were no new parts anywhere to fix it - I bought two new Dolmars and will never go back to Stihl. My 64 cc Dolmar is every bit of saw that my Stihl 045 Super is (87 ccs).

Funny thing - after Stihl USA told me there were no parts anywhere to fix - I found a dealer in West Germany that has all the parts - new - made by a company in Italy. So, for $150, I fixed my Sthil. It's now a backup saw for stump cutting. Once I got using my Dolmar, there's not going back.

I'm using Dolmars for extreme heavy cutting, Deere (Efcos) for moderate cutting, and two little Echos for climbing saws. All have been great.

I said this earlier, but the Efco professional saw that Deere had been selling as the CS56 is an amazing saw. All metal - crankcase and bar cover. All ball-bearings and has a decompression valve. 4.1 horse @ 9000 RPM and the weighs 12 lbs. Deere was selling them for over $500 which is now bargain, but I've bought several for almost half that price -new - from Deere dealers looking to get rid of them once Deere Co. dropped them.

One other thing about Stihl. As far as I can tell, not only do they NOT post prices on the Web, they also do not post parts-breakdowns. So, you can "look inside" a saw before buying. Efco and Dolmar post all their parts-breakdowns on line, for free.

I guess I'm confused by your claims.

I've looked at the parts explosions for Stihl's homeowners saws, like my MS250. They have metal crank cases inside a plastic case. So the part that holds the bearings is metal and won't melt. It's a cheap design that is sufficent for most users, but not as robust as they could be.

Stihl still reserves the high quality equipment for their professional line. For instance their MS260 is the same weight and power as the MS250, but costs $100 more and is rated for a bigger bar. The difference is in the quality of construction.
previous discussion...

Kiln-dried!! Can you imagine how that would drive up the cost of firewood! 6 to $700 hundred for ti-axle load is bad enought right now.lol

I didn't say anything specifically about the MS250 and I have no idea what is inside of it. I said that Sthil and Husky make some saws with plastic crankcases and some with metal. They also make some saws with NO ball-bearings on the cranks. I saw several of those fail, even back when I was a Sthil mechanic in the 90s -e.g the 009 and 011.

A friend of mine owns a saw shop where he only sells Husky and Echo. He has a bench full of Huskys with melted plastic crankcases. They use a small steel plate to hold the main bearings and that plate is riveted to a plastic crankcase. He's going to drop Husky soon (he says) and sell Dolmar instead.

As to Stihl? I no longer work for a Stihl dealer and don't have any friends to do either. I went to two local Stihl dealers here in Otsego County, NY and both told me that Stihl makes 2-3 models with plastic crankcases - one from China. I did not pursue the issue. I asked for a pro metal saw equivalent to my 045 Super(87cc) and the dealer gave me a price of $900 for a MS-something. So I got disgusted, left, and bought a new 64 cc Dolmar instead (for less then $600). I took their word for it, but do not have a set of parts breakdowns for all modern Stihl saws.

I don't care what they are made out of. Stihl makes it very hard to shop on-line, or research the inside of their new saws. On the other hand, Dolmar and Efco make it easy and don't keep secrets in an effort to make you go to a dealer.

It is amazing that Sthil did not go under though, after working with the Nazis during WWII. All their saw patents were taken away from them after the Germans lost the war - yet they made a comeback. There is no doubt that Lerps and Stihl have made some great saws. Lerps invented Dolmar and worked with Andreas Sthil before either guy had his own company. Now - Sthil and others want go get as involved as possible in the consumer market - and I don't blame them for that. I'm simply making statements about what I find to be the best buy for the buck - for someone that uses their saws hard. I don't find Stihl to be a best-buy from anything I've seen - at least not anymore.

Local Stewarts Shop in my town already sells plastic-wrapped, kiln-dried firewood in cute little bundles.

I have not idea - if they ever pass such a law -how they'd ever enforce it at a local level.

I'm lucky I guess that I cut all my own wood and don't drive very far to get it.

> Anyone have opinions on the Stihl 650 or other Stihl models with plenty of power?

In that class of saw (new), if you're buying new your choices are really only:

Stihl MS650
Stihl MS660
Husqvarna 385XP
Jonsered CS2186
Echo CS8000

The two Stihls are essentially the same saw except 10cc of displacement and a $150 price difference. I would go with the 650 myself. The Husky and Jonsered are both the same saw as well with the only change being that the Jonsered has a different carb and the Jonsered-style "turbo" intake. For whatever reason, the 2186 and 385xp are around the same price, so I would go with the 2186 out of the two. I'm not sure the Echo is quite in the same class of saw, but it's probably the cheapest of the lot and they have a pretty good reputation.

When all's said and done, I think I would probably go for the Stihl MS650.

If you want a saw for bigger wood this Dolmar/Makita here will serve you well.

http://www.baileysonline.com/itemdetail.asp?item=DCS+6401+BB&catID=11227

The Dolmar ps7900 is over 6 hp and 13 lbs

I have a PS5100 at 11 lbs and 4 hp and it cuts fast and smooth.

here is some more info

http://www.dolmarpowerproducts.com/productcatalog/product/5074/index.html

I have the DCS6401 and love it. Used it hard two years now. I bought it new for $535 with a 20" bar and two chains. It can easily be made into a 74 cc saw with a new jug and piston. That was one of the reasons I first bought it, but after using it, I decided I don't need it any more powerful. I've got hard-maple stumps with a 32 inch bar on it, and it had all the power it needed.

Liked it so much, I later got a few DCS510s for small saws. Built with the same quality as the 6401.

I love my stihl 460's and 660's. I'm as hard on the saws and you can be because I often strap them to my chainsaw mill and cut up mantles and beams. Ripping with the grain for many feet at a time continuous is very hard on the saws but they don't complain and I haven't had any issues with them. I also cut 10-15 cord of firewood for personal use a season. Also on occasion I am called out into the woods to fell timber for the sawmill.


The dolmar/Makita 6400/7300/7900 is also a good saw but in my experience the air filtration system was lacking (until a recent update they did). Also the saws don't seem to have the grunt when strapped to the mill and ripping lumber.

I know this may sound dumb but! What kind of Oak trees are they? If there white or red oaks I would call someone to buy your logs and let them cut them down. Cutting wind damaged wood down is NO fun. I have had to many close calls to think of, that still gives me chills. The Stihl saws are good, we still have the old farm boss and it just keeps on going. The Dolmar saws are good to, I don't know witch one I would buy new now. Bandit

No problem with tree experience.....grew up in a two story house with no means of heat except two fireplaces. Starting cutting firewood (with a hand 36" bow saw) with my dad when I was about 10 and started using my first chain saw at age 14. Have been dropping hurricane-damaged trees since the 1960's. Also used to sell firewood for several years as a side business. Can't count how many cords of oak I've felled, cut & split. Not bragging or anything and don't claim to be a pro, just letting you know that I am well experienced in dropping trees safely, but I do appreciate your concern...

Good to know kevin, I've worked in the woods for years and don't envy you a bit cutting wind damage.

I have both stihl and huskey. I prefer the huskey's they seem to turn a bit faster and when you throw on a full skip they (in my opinion) cut circles around a comparable stihl.

If you want a good saw cheap try and find one of the old huskey 272's that was a great saw... and they were damn near bullet proof. My 372 just doesn't seem to cut as well as my old 272

Matt,

Thanks for the info...I bought the Stihl 650 last night (< 50 cents on the dollar) but still need a smaller size (bigger than my old XL12s but smaller than the 650) so I'll be on the lookout for a 272...

Thanks for the reply and enjoyed the photos. I bought the 650 last night in like-new condition. Seller bought it to cut one large tree after Katrina instead of paying $2600 to have it cut by an out-of-state contractor.... Been sitting in his garage since...

Mostly water oaks, a few live oak limbs laying on the ground already. The one red oak we lost is rotted too much for lumber and the water oaks are good for crane mats or pallet frames, but there's not much money in small quantities. Not too good for furniture as it splits too much after it dries out....

Went ahead & got the 650 last night...thanks.