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Fence posts - treated versus untreated

J

JDemaris

Well-known Member
I just refreshed my memory, reading a huge study done by our USA Federal government, starting in 1909 and going up the the 1990s.
It's amazing how much time and money went into studying fenceposts.

In brief- creosote treated southern yellow pine often lasted 50-60 years. CCA treated southern yellow pine 30-40 years.

Untreated natural woods?

This surprises me since when I first worked for building contractors in the 60s, Redwood was the #1 outdoor wood. According to tests though, it rots fast when in the ground.

Average life of natural fenceposts tested:

Black Locust - 37 years
Rocky Mountain Juniper - 37 years
Arizona Cypress - 25 years
Osage Orange - 25 years
Western Red Cedar - 21.3 years
Arizona White Oak - 20 years
Mulberry - 19 years
American Chestnut - 19 years
Green Ash - 18.7 years
Mesquite - 18 years
Northern White Cedar - 15 years
White Oak - 10 years
Honey Locust - 5 years
Redwood - 3.6 years
 
I just know I've got some cedar posts here from TSC that have been in the ground for 9 years and are rotted off already. Some of them have been for a few years now.
 
I also was inspired to do a little research on a totally different but recent topic. And I can't believe the results!
most recent electric bill(s)
2917kwh $256.45 $.0879/kwh
780kwh $87.90 $.1127/kwh
1820kwh $178.20 $.0979/kwh
 
My cedar post are about 12yrs old and are rotting off at ground level, replacing with YP treated post and high tensile fence. Seems to be good fence choice so far.
 
Town put a fence around the common about 12 years ago, at a considerable cost. They just removed it a couple of weeks ago, not for rot but they nearly cut off the posts with the gas weed wacker/ trimmers. I believe it was locust and that's why it was so expensive. They should replace with concrete.
 
I think that depends on what classification your power company has you on. Everybody around here was complaining this past summer about their electric bills doubling because they had to run their air conditioners so much. There were even stories about it on the local TV news. Residential customers are limited to just so many kw/hours per month,but I'm on an ag/residential classification and I'm allowed more usage before the rates go up,so mine hardly increased at all.
 
Interesting.

Of course it's a good thing that all wood rots, otherwise we'd be tripping over all the dead trees that fell for the past thousand years.
 
"Old growth" cedar posts can last 40 years plus- but there's virtually no old growth left. Posts made of 2nd growth (growing) cedar aren't worth putting in the ground- the treated round ones at the farm store will last longer.
 
Here are some of my last bills here in central New York before I switched to solar power. Comes to around 17 cents per KWH even though they posed the KWH cost at 8 cents at that time. Real cost now is over 18 cents per KWh, but I make my own power now.

11/31/05 - 12/1/05 513 KWh $71.56 total
12/1/05 - 1/3/06 609 KWh - $69.90 total
1/3/06 - 2/1/06 - 531 KWh - total bill $94.42
2/1/06 - 3/2/06 550 KWh - total bill $92.66
3/2/06 - 4/3/06 - 613 KWh - total bill $98.10
4/3/06 - 5/2/06 - 390 KWh - total bill $66.59
5/2/06 - 6/2/06- 398 KWh - total bill $68.70
6/2/06 - 7/5/06 - 394 KWh - total bill $62.77
 
We had several cedar posts that lasted over 100 years which were located on/near a considerable down hill grade. Apparently good drainage is a factor. Also had more luck with osage orange, which was the post of choice in this area. Got to agree with creosote yellow pine results. We had a creosoted yellow pine pole shed erected in 1957 and when it was removed in 2000. The poles were in excellent condition and reused.
 
I"ve got old cedar posts on the ranch that have weathered away to only about 2" in diameter. The staples are loose where the wood has decayed around them, Yet When you cut or break them, the inside looks new. There is no telling how old they are - I know that no fence has been built there before we got it for at least 30 years.
 
Texas Hill Country Mountain Cedar is about the best i've found...got some on east fence that were there when we bought place in '65...i rebuilt entire perimeter fence about 4 years ago and posts in that section of fence were still so hard i had to drill pilot holes for staples. only thing i've seen that lasted longer were some switch ties my grandfather salvaged off the Lil Susie railroad line that served the Sealy Mattress Co on West Galveston Island before the Great Storm of 1900...they were 30' long and he sunk them 8' to make center poles for hay barn...when i sold the old place 4 years ago they were still in good shape and i woulda hauled em to ranch if i had any way to pull them up.
 
Hedge is an often substituted name for Osage Orange. I have some on my place that are already 35 years old, and although no bigger than my wrist, they are NOT going to break. If you try to cut one, you'd better bring a big box full of chain saw chains, because the sparks are going to fly. So, I would say that study isn't accurate for every area.
 
Well, I always thought that Hedge, Osage Orange, and Ironwood were one and the same, at least in my neighborhood.

I can show you Hedge posts on this farm that were here when the place was bought in 1955, and they show NO signs of decay.

Gotta wire the fence to 'em 'cause they won't accept a staple.

Paul
 
Yea,I've got some of those too and they're holding up so far. There are 2 grades of treated post too though. There's a .4 and a .6. The .4 is pretty much for landscaping timbers that will lay on top of the ground,not be set in the ground. A guy south of me found that out the hard way. He hired some company to put up a new toolshed for him. Not too many years later,all of the posts were rotted off at ground level. Turned out they were the .4 treated.
 
What a coincidence. I've spent three days this past week replacing rotted fence posts. Here in Maine, White Cedar is the most common post. These were somewhere between 10 and 15 years old and rotted badly, so the list you gave is pretty close.

I've replaced the corner and gate posts with creosoted telephone pole I collected at my last job. All the line posts I took out have been replaced with metal T posts. The metal doesn't rot, and the frost doesn't heave them like it does wooden posts.

One way or another, that section of fence will last longer than I will, or at least until I don't give a damn any more..."8^)
 
Another factor is how far from the tree's normal habitat the posts are installed. Soil bacteria in a locally grown species are tailored to eat the dead trees. Bacteria 1000 miles away do not have a taste for it. Jim
 
Weird thing. I needed a run for my dogs and money was tight. I bought 8' landscape timbers at lowes. Less than 2 bucks each. I figured dogs weren't going to live more than 10 or 15 years so I did not need real longevity. These cheap things have been in the ground in a wet area for 8 years now and show no sign of deteriotion
 
Osage orange is the best I ever heard of, but Black locust is also very good. We put up a black locust flag pole back in 1976 for the bicenntenial and it is still standing although it is leaning a bit since it was put up on the edge of a steep hill. Walnut is also a very good fence post wood but folks are too scared to cut it thinking it will be worth a fortune. Once the sap wood rots off a walnut can lay on the ground for twenty years. We had an eastern red cedar post on a gate that lasted since 1935 when great Grandpa bought that farm and the post was in very good shape till the fence was removed several years ago. There were several gates put on that post over the years. One old fellow told me he treated fence post wood himself using old motor oil and diesel mixed. He filled a barrel half full and stacked vertically all the posts inside he could fit and then toppped off the oil in the barrel and let them sit for several months covered over to keep water out. The oil would work its way up the channels in the wood and helped keep termites from enjoying a meal. Poor mans creasote he called it. He said he had several posts over 75 years old treated like that at his place.
 
I didn"t know mulberry would be that good. I know it"s hard and will burn awhile. I think that"s what always throw"s sparks out the stove when we refuel. I always heard catalpa was another good one for fence posts, ever seen those used?
 
Here in the North East Ironwood was used for wagon poles with horses. It will bend but not beak.
Not the same as Osage Orange.
 
I put some used metal posts in the ground over 40 years ago.A few did give out at ground level.When TSC opened a store in Skowhegan I started buying studded T posts to replace rotted cedar posts.Just put in 30 steel posts in a wet area.There are some chestnut rails on the place that are still sound.In some ares where there is ledge they drilled a hole in a boulder and set an iron rod in the hole with melted lead.A wood post stapled to the iron rod lasted a long time.
 
(quoted from post at 16:52:33 11/07/10) I just refreshed my memory, reading a huge study done by our USA Federal government, starting in 1909 and going up the the 1990s.
It's amazing how much time and money went into studying fenceposts.

In brief- creosote treated southern yellow pine often lasted 50-60 years. CCA treated southern yellow pine 30-40 years.

Untreated natural woods?

This surprises me since when I first worked for building contractors in the 60s, Redwood was the #1 outdoor wood. According to tests though, it rots fast when in the ground.

Average life of natural fenceposts tested:

Black Locust - 37 years
Rocky Mountain Juniper - 37 years
Arizona Cypress - 25 years
Osage Orange - 25 years
Western Red Cedar - 21.3 years
Arizona White Oak - 20 years
Mulberry - 19 years
American Chestnut - 19 years
Green Ash - 18.7 years
Mesquite - 18 years
Northern White Cedar - 15 years
White Oak - 10 years
Honey Locust - 5 years
Redwood - 3.6 years
Click to expand...
Osage Orange, commonly known as hedge has no equal. Dry hedge is as hard as iron and are unequaled for corner posts. A one foot diameter will last ahundred years.
 
We were rebuilding an old road across a valley in front of an old man's home place. He was in his eighties & said he remembered there being a corderoy road across that valley when he was a little tyke. He liked to tell how the iron wheeled wagon would bounce on the walnut logs. He was a joker & I kidded him about his wild imagination. Walnut road! Ha Ha! Later we were excavating for a new box culvert and found that old corderoy road. I went up and got him so he could see what we found. The walnut logs looked like new. Busted one with the trackhoe and it was still purple inside. They'd been in the ground at least 75 years. He was grinning from ear to ear!

Paul
 
my dads' house was built in an old pasture & they used Catalpa posts. Each post grew into a tree. We were on a corner so had a row of Catalpa trees on 2 sides, 10 ft apart. Trees had a clear truck up to about 5 ft. high, then branched out in many directions. Perfect for a kid to climb. They say the posts have to be put in the ground at a certain time of the year to grow into trees but I don't know the timing, prolly winter planting.
 
the old farm books show the poor mans way to treat posts. They stood the posts in a barrel & wired firmly a cut-off piece of inner tube to the post & suspended the other end of the tube above the post & poured creasote into the tube. Over several weeks or months (depending on the species) the creasote would gravitate thru the post & into the barrel & your post was treated. Made a good hog fence: took some time but hel!, what's time to a hog?
 
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