building a loft in my pole barn

i have a open face pole barn/shed i would like to build a loft in it.i would like it across the back wall about 16 ft wide across the back wall maybe 3 ft under the trusses.i would store some hay or other what nots up there .anyone got any pics or drawings i could look at to get an idea.thanks
RICK

just a thought ,...i have experienced problems with lofts in pole bld. with to much weight the poles have a tendency to sink...good luck

I will take some pics of my loft later today and get back to you. Jim

I'm not sure I fully understand the question. I've built many two, three, and almost four-story pole-barns. All worked out fine, passed inspection, etc.

Like anything else, you have to calculate load and stress. You also have to make sure you use the correct type poles and the correct hardware.

Keep in mind that if your treated poles are NOT CCA, and are later ACQ type, you've got to use stainless steel or hot-dipped galvanized hardware.

In your situation, what exactly will be the floor joists-girders, and what will they be attached to? If they are attached to 4"X6" poles, or 6"X6" poles, much depends on their spacing, how deep they are, and what they are sitting on underground.

The girders are what you will be bolting directly to the poles. Then you add joists perpendicular to those girders, and your flooring gets attached to those joists.

If this was a residential structure, it would be more complicated. You'd have to calculate soil density, and add large concrete pads under the poles.

Since you've got more of a farm-use, not so complex. If your poles are spaced 8 feet apart, and you want to add an upper storage area across three poles to span 16 feet . . .

You need a joist-carrying girder a minimum of 2" X 10" if strong #1 wood (larch, Doug fir, southern yellow pine). If a #2 wood (most common framing lumber rated S-P-F), you need 2" X 12".

If you want to run twin girders bolted to both sides of the poles, on 8 foot centers, then #1 wood can be twin 2"X6"s, and #2 wood can be twin 2" X 8"s.

If your poles are spaced 10' apart, then increase all to the next larger size.

Once the girders are attached, you have to figure how long the floor joists will be.

Floor joists spaced 24" apart - a #1 2"X6" can be run a max of 8 feet. a #1 2"X8" can go 10 feet. A #1 2"X10" can go 13 feet. A #1 2"X12" can go 16 feet. If you space joists closer at 16" centers, you can add a foot to each span.

This is the "almost" four story barn I built 20 years ago. Bottom is all 6" X 6" poles spaced 8 feet apart. 2nd full story, attic 3rd story,and a small 4 th story bedroom sticking out the top.

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Here's another I haven't finished yet (in the Adirondacks). Pole contruction on the bottom level, and 2" X 6" framed walls on the upper. Poles are all 8 foot spaced. The nice thing about pole construction is one person can do it, if careful. No "work crew" needed.

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Here's another. My old farm house built 1820. Added a pole-barn type addtion for bottom,and 2"X6" frame on top. Had to build around an old well that is now, inside our kitchen.

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A friend of mine found a way around that problem. Some years ago, I helped him put up a 40 X 60 Pole barn. Her wanted a second floor in the eves of it for storage. What he did was to sink phone poles in the ground within the barn and build the second floor on top of them. That way, no added weight was ever put on the barn itself. Even put in a full inside srair-case to the second floor.

John

JD, what's the deal with the hardware, and wood treatment, does the latter ACQ react with mill finish mild steel or something like dissimilar metals does in the galvanic series, in those instances you either have to create a bond breaker or other means to keep em separate, or use a compatible material.

CCA performs great, I have always wondered what dictated the change, I used to haul trailer loads from the plant in Athens NY and Holbrook in Albany, and even down south in NC many years ago.

Slivers, sawdust, leaching ? burning ? byproducts from treatment plants ? It seems that like anything else, handled properly there was no environmental issues, seems like an envirowhacko agenda item unless I've missed something.


That almost 4th floor, ( realizing most codes don't allow for wood framed structures with a 4th floor ) you must have found a way to frame that and provide the support you needed for same, I want to do that with a 20x32 pole barn, mostly for aesthetic reasons, but it would make a great observation post over my place being on a hill, was thinking of spanning the 20' wide part, posts are 8' o.c. figured a couple of timbers but the one side complicates it as I left 1 pole out to make a 16' wide door so that header would have to allow one timber spanning the 20' to bear on it, often wondered if it would work or just the heck with it, though I think it would work with the right size beams.

16' opening on right:



One person(me) setting 18' posts:





PS, nice work & kind of looks like a good amount of labor there, though you are right one person can do quite a bit and I'll bet certain pieces of equipment you have there were very helpful at times.

One suggestion would be to avoid suspending any frame work from the bottom chord of the trusses, so you may have design something that bears on the existing posts and can provide a suitable span, for what you want, probably not all that difficult, but you most likely do not want to hang anything off the bottom chords as they are designed to support the truss and roof, hard to say how much beyond that is allowable, one would have to get that info from the truss mfr.

Couldn't do some of it without a backhoe around (when working by myself). I'm also 60 years old and only weigh around 160 lbs. A bigger person could do more then I do.

CCA treated poles are the best of the the "experiments" over the years. And, CCA is still perfectly legal except in exposed residential use. The problem is, finding anyone that stocks it anymore.

The new chemical treatment is extremely corrosive to steel and aluminum. Thus the need for special hardware. Electro-plate galvanized not permitted. If galvanized, it must be hot-dipped.

One other thing to watch for. Most 6" X 6" treated poles sold as 10 foot or shorter, are NOT propertly treated for sticking in the ground. I found out that even many lumber yards don't realize this. So, let's say you need an 8 footer. You usually have to buy something over 10 foot and cut it down. A 16 footer works out nicely to make two.

I've had many problems in central New York getting the correct stuff. Just about none sold at Home Depot or Stock lumbe is. But, recently I was trying to buy poles for a pole-barn in northern Michigan. I told the guy I wanted a dozen 12 foot 6"X6"s for sticking in the ground. When I told him my concerns, he laughed at me like I was a clueless fool. Well?? Guess what. We walked out in his yard and checked his treatment labels. Even his 14 footers weren't treated for in-ground use. He was quite surprised. If the poles say "ground contact", that means they are NOT treated properly. "Contact" means touching the ground, but not stuck into it.

By the way, you are dead-on with the four-floor not being allowed. Long story how I did it. Basically, when it comes to my own properties, I am a chronic law-breaker (or bender). Main thing is, veer away from residential code when possible, and stay with farm or "hunting cabin" codes.

I think I recall you mentioning the CCA vs ACQ and or latest pressure treated wood preservatives. I worked in a lumber yard for 4 years and it was mainly SPF, SYP(Truss Plant materials) and pressure treated Chromated Copper Arsenate (CCA) which was .40 saturated. That was a Blue label. There was also a Red label .60, first time I saw it was when I delivered trusses to RK Miles up in Manchester VT, they had just built new lumber buildings out of 12"x 12" .60 CCA, I bought a cut off, they would not even give the scraps away LOL ! This was in the summer of '89. I'd never seen the .60 CCA before, .40= 40 years, .60= 60 years ground contact duration I believe. We used care with fresh materials from the plant, often times there was crystallized CCA on the boards.

I never knew that the ACQ reacted with steel, and I would imagine most sales people at building suppliers may not have the knowledge on these products, hence your experiences with them.

I thought that CCA was obsolete, good to know it is not. I would think that contacting a treatment plant like Holbrook in Albany, and or the one in Athens, would shed some info on what is available and how to get it, they are both wholesalers but we used to order from them, and others like Georgia Pacific, Weyerhauser, etc., for stock or customers. Holbrook stocked all kinds of lumber, I used to see redwood in there, that is as perfect as lumber gets.

Well that hunting camp and or the like is the occupancy classification you want, I probably should have not mentioned that here, but by now it is probably grandfathered etc.

Getting back to ric's question. I put a loft in my polebarn to collect all the neat stuff that seems to follow me home. Mine is installed and bears on the main poles. It is 12'X24' with rough cut 2x12 plates and 2x8 joists at 16" on center. I know I've had at least a couple tons stored up there at various times and I can access it with my backhoe's front bucket. I built this like a horse barn with a heated garage at the other end so that at some point down the road I decide to sellout, I can advertise the property in Joisey targeting horse people for about X times what I have invested!

I went 8ft deep across the gable ends and 4 ft deep accross the length. The two 8 ft dep ends are built like a traditional floor with 2x6 joists and posts every 8 or 10 ft using the shed posts as the rear posts. The 4ft wide strip accross the back I used plywood I jiosts my buddy got for free because they were weathered. Since its only 4 ft wide it doesn't need much strength and I only put the light stuff up there.

I built mine much like Mr. Crum's. Built one completely along one side and across the back. Added 600 sq. ft. of usesble space to my shop.Best thing I ever done.

Here is a picture of the loft in my shop. It's not quite the same as what you're wanting to build, but it might trigger some ideas. They are great for storing things.

David

wow david that is an awesome shop very nice thanks for the pic.
RICK

Heres some pics of my loft in a 14ft pole barn with posts at 9ft. The posts inbetween are on the concrete floor. Feed room in the corner and about 600 bales above. The loft is 12ft wide the length of the biulding. posts without anchors are on 1/2in rebar drilled into floor. On the one end I ran out of salvaged lumber and used 2x12 on 16in centers with floor joist hangers. Hope you find this helpful. Jim

3 feet isn't much headroom. You'll be on your hands and knees when up there.

I went the quick and easy route and used pallet racking. First row about 2 feet from the end wall, second row 4 feet out from the first, then layed 18' 2x8's flat across the crossmembers from the back wall out, making a loft that is 18' by 40'. Each section will support 5600lbs, so loading is not a concern. I set it high enough to walk under, and also let the uprights extend 4' through the first deck, and added more crossmembers upstairs. I used 6' boards on each row of the upper deck, so I have a walkway between the first and second rows of racking, with shelves on each side. Sure swallows a lot of junk, but requires a concrete floor.

How tall is that shop?

Do not attach anything to the truss chords. If one would fail, do not count on your insurance to pay. They are meant to hold up the roof, and maybe a ceiling.