Green Energy

Billy Shafer

Well-known Member
How are the green energy plants coming along in you state. We have a field down here called Mustang Creek. Was supposed to have a BioGas plant up and running by now. They had the party for it in 09. All the bigwigs from the state and gov showed up. Telling us how great it will be in 2010 when it opens and goes on line. Well it is almost 2011 and it is still and empty field. Man that had backed it from down here has given up and pulled his money out.
Got tired of fighting the EPA and Gov over regulations. So much for green energy.
 
We're gonna burn $100 bills here to keep warm in the winter months.

They fer darned sure arent' worth anything as legal tender. :>(

Allan
 
There are a few bins standing on the site of what was supposed to be an ethanol plant near here too. They ran out of cash pretty quick on that one.
 
Better to have second thoughts before it's built than after. Past political decisions not based on cost benefits have made "green" a expensive joke.
 
Spain invested heavily in green energy and discovered that for every green energy job that was created, there were 2.2 jobs lost. Each green energy job created cost about $774,000.

The bottom line is that if green jobs (or any economic activity, for that matter) is going to benefit the economy, the free market would have already jumped in and done it.
The cost of green jobs in Spain
 
You and the Libertarian candidate for Governor of Michigan. For the heck of it,for lack of a decent choice,I was just checking his website this morning and he's TOTALLY opposed to spending a dime on green energy in Michigan. Not saying I'm opposed to it,but it has to be free enterprise and self supporting.
 
I tought HS for 31 years. After a while you learn politicians want to improve education by throwing money at it. No one researches the problem. If they had, they would have learned that they were only re-inventing the wheel. Been tried before and failed, yet it makes a good sound bite for the local news. Same with energy in the US. Other governments have a large tax on imported energy which makes people stop waisting it.

Perhaps readers in other countries should post what they pay for a gallon gas to illistrate my point. I paid $2.57/gal at Plainfield, In on Tuesday. $2.62/gal at Terre Haute, In.

As long as the US keeps energy costs low, alternate energy sources will never get off the ground.
George
 
When you say "As long as the US keeps energy costs low", you mean "as long as the US doesn't artificially raise energy prices thru taxation", right?
 
Shale gas put the quietus on that plant and several more, south louisiana was gearing up for LNG operations and all of that is gathering dust, Indonesia and Saudi Arabia had big LNG export facilities being upgraded and built and all of that is on hold indefinately. Exploration and production of this deep shale gas is a big deal that is not getting the support it needs from the powers that be, there is enough gas nation wide to completely turn our economy around and create tens of thousands of jobs, the most conservative reserve estimates are a 100 year supply.
 
And Germany invested too. Why would we pattern ourselves after a failed plan like Spain's? Same as the health care, it was said this and that socialized health care was bad, in actuality I thing over time they were all labeled bad by the Repugs, but why would we pattern ourselves after the bad ones?

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...Learning from Germany.Tuesday, 21 September 2010 Solve Climate .Despite the fact that Germany has far fewer renewable energy resources than the U.S., Berlin is surging ahead of Washington in terms of green job creation. In just the last eight years, Germany has generated 300,000 jobs in the renewable energy sector (their fastest-growing in fact), while the U.S. has struggled to keep the renewable energy jobs it does have from being outsourced. Which begs the question: how did a country that has fewer sunny days per year than Seattle become such a clean energy powerhouse? In a word, policy.

Dr. Klaus Scharioth, the German Ambassador to the U.S., and the keynote speaker of a recent Capitol Hill briefing co-sponsored by the Heinrich Böll Stiftung Foundation, discussed how the feed-in tariff (FiT), a fixed amount of money given to the producer of renewable energy by all electricity consumers, was perhaps the most successful policy for spurring such a massive deployment of renewable energy. To put it in context, from 2001 to 2009, Germany’s share of renewable energy in the country’s overall energy mix grew from 6.2% to 16%. At the same time, greenhouse gases (GHGs) fell by 28%from 1990 levels, far surpassing the 21% mandate set by the Kyoto Protocol.

Now, the skeptics in America may say that this is all well and good, but there must have been some trade-off in economic growth. Im Gegenteil (on the contrary)! Germany’s GDP actually grew 13% since the FiT was enacted, according to the ambassador. And that is only the beginning. In the next decade, the renewables industry in Germany predicts the deployment of clean energy to rise to 47%. By 2050, Germany hopes to increase its share of renewable energy to 80% — and there are some that believe the country could be completely self-sufficient on renewables by that time—which Dr. Scharioth says will be accomplished in a two-prong fashion: by investing more heavily in renewable energy and increasing energy efficiency gains.

So, how can the U.S. compete not only with Germany, but with Asia’s Rising Tigers as well, which are making similar commitments? Yvette Pena Lopes, director of legislation and intergovernmental affairs at the Blue Green Alliance, believes that one solution would be to focus on strengthening and extending the policies that are already in place, such as the manufacturing tax credit and the treasury grant program. She also called for the U.S. Senate to pass a renewable electricity standard (RES), which would almost certainly give business the long-term confidence to invest in clean energy with certainty. Aaron Peterson, vice president of project and business development at juwi Wind LLC, concurred, adding that if three key elements were guaranteed—price, interconnection and long-term contracts for clean energy projects—the U.S. would be a much more compelling market for investors.

Granted, while a feed-in tariff would probably not sit well for most U.S. policymakers, having something like a Standard Offer Program like the SPEED program in Vermont, might. The overarching point from the panel was that trying something is far better than doing nothing at this point. When Germany committed to renewable energy on a large scale, there was uncertainty and imperfect policies to be sure, but what encouraged that country to persevere was an unwavering conviction that this was the right thing to do. If America follows in Germany’s footsteps now, in a decade’s time, the U.S. might just be showing the world the way once again.
 
Other governments have a large tax on imported energy so that those governments can waste the funds generated through the tax. Taxes stifle economic activity, period.
 
Regular unleaded just dropped to $2.81 at the cheapie station. Oregon seems to have one highest prices in teh nation for gas.
 
I know this for a fact. My brother in law works for one of the major oil service companies. He has shown me on the map of North America. Where all of the major oil fields are and how much they think is there.

But with the EPA rules and Gov regulations. It is not worth going after. The oil service yards around this county. Are full of rigs and it is the same nation wide. We had twenty rigs drilling in this county two years ago. Now we are down to three. Oil is still there but cost more to drill than they can sell it for.
 
What makes you think that the "PowersThatBe" want to turn anything around? I"ve read about how the Sec.Of The Interior wants to put more and more land OFF LIMITS. The FedGov wants to take all this land and make a bunch of national parks out of it.
Look at what they, the "PowersThatBe" are doing to the gulf oil industry. It doesn"t look to me like they are after "EnergyIndependance". While thye shut our oil industry down, they are sending OUR tax moneys to Mexico to drill in the gulf. Along with MORE of our tax money to Brazil for THEIR oil exploration and drilling.
Jack
 
We have 148 or more oil rigs drilling in No. Dak right now. And more moving in every day. They are going down at least two miles then side drilling up to two miles. They call it fracturing and it takes at least a MILLION GALLONS of water to drill each well. Guess what is the nxt prblam here--wells going dry.
 
After a while you learn politicians want to improve education by throwing money at it.

=================================================

Because the NEA promises more votes if the politicians promise more money. In the end neither has anything to do with educating children.
 
Spain was pretty efficient. The "stimulus" money spent about 1.5 million dollars on every job it "saved".

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/16/los-angeles-official-disappointed-city-used-stimulus-funds/
 
RR, I understand your position but until the gov. stops subsidizing things like the oil industry, ect. why shouldn't they get some money. They should cut off the money to other big businesses and then it would be sink or swim! The wind industry has benefitted alot of people in Mn. I worked on turbines for 7 years and it sure helped me out. No wants to dam rivers, burn coal or build nuke plants yet our enetrgy needs keep growing,electricity has to come from somewhere. Not trying to start an arguement, just presenting another side of the issue.
 
RR, I understand your position but until the gov. stops subsidizing things like the oil industry, ect. why shouldn't they get some money. They should cut off the money to other big businesses and then it would be sink or swim! The wind industry has benefitted alot of people in Mn. I worked on turbines for 7 years and it sure helped me out. No wants to dam rivers, burn coal or build nuke plants yet our energy needs keep growing,electricity has to come from somewhere. Not trying to start an arguement, just presenting another side of the issue.
 
I've never been under any illusion that the feds want to turn anything around, I called them the powers that be because if you badmouth a certain political party on this site your post gets deleted.
 
A legislator is asking that we elect him so that he can support wind energy to preserve and create jobs for about 300,000.

Now a decent salary for 300,000 doesn't come cheap by any means and I have to wonder just how much electricity those 300,000 would produce and at what cost per KWH? I'll bet it doesn't come cheap--especially when compared to 20 year costs for a nuclear plant and operation.
 
If you check the EIA website I think you will find wind to be the most heavily subsidised energy form ($26 per Mega Watt) at the moment. With current technology it is no where close to being competitive. EIA is the government reporting site. Facts only.
 

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