Proving tractor ownership

Another thread got me to thinking, I really don't have any way to prove I own my tractors! They were purchased privately with cash, and I know for a fact that I got no paperwork whatsoever with at least one of them, and only a hand-written receipt for one that has long since vanished.

Luckily I'm good on a third tractor... It was paid for with a credit card!

While the odds may be slim, a previous owner or a legitimate-sounding schmuck off the street could suddenly lay claim to one of my tractors, and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law!

Is there anything I can do at this stage of the game to solidify my legal claim to my own personal property?

other that etching your name on the tractor i dont know, but i wouldnt worry too much about court, chances are anybody trying to get a free tractor doesnt have the money to get his claim thru the courts, out here in the county i live in anybody trying to play that game runs a high risk of simply dissapearing

Write down and keep on file all the serial numbers of the tractor along with make, model, and year. Take pictures of the tractor also and keep everything in a file in a safe place. Comes in handy for a police report if it is ever stolen.

You raise a very valid point but as an Attorney I can tell you Ive found the old saying that POSESSION IS 9/10 OF THE LAW IS FAIRLY ACCURATE.

You ask "While the odds may be slim, a previous owner or a legitimate-sounding schmuck off the street could suddenly lay claim to one of my tractors, and I wouldn't have a leg to stand on in a court of law!

HOWEVER YOU DONT NEED A LAG TO STAND ON its the schmuck who bears the burden (by a preponderance of the evidence) of going forward and the burden of proving himself to be the rightful owner. It is he NOT YOU who has to bring the case and then prove his point. If he says its his but you are the current peaceful posessor, absent any hard and legally admissible evidence he can produce to the contrary (to establish his lawful ownership), YOU WIN AT LAW

A current peaceful posessor of an item has a superior claim to it over alllllllllllll other then a proven rightful owner. You cant steal an item and then base your defense (establish yourself as the lawful owner) on thc fact the person you stole it from stole it earlier from someone else. The current posessor's right are still superior to yours REGARDLESS how he came about it.

Allllll that being said if you dont have a Bill of Sale or receipt etc (Reallyyyyyyyy a good thing to get and keep) its good to establish and memorialize and record your posession by pictures and/or a dated video inventory especially with serial numbers etc.

If you have it in your posession its pretty much yours unless and until someone can prove its theirs, and he not you has alllllll the burden of proof and persuasion (by a preponderance of the evidence) and absent good admissible evidence he doesnt have the leg to stand on,,,,,,,, HE NEEDS THE LEG NOT YOU Preponderance of the evidence means (if youre in posession) if you say its yours but he says its his, absent other evidence, YOU WIN he has to go over the (call it 50/50) threshold to prevail

A good dated pictorial or video inventory with serial numbers or other identifiers of personal property is a good thing for us all.....

Yall take care n God Bless

John T Country Lawyer

John, can you please e-mail me offline, I'd like to run something past you if you don't mind.

Thanks

Pretty simple approach. There are several serial numbers on a tractor. Record them and if that is not enough, then mark the tractor in a place known only to you,maybe like 3 file marks where it would be impossible to have gotten them by physical damage.Maybe like under the gearshift boot if it has one.

Hello!
Good question! I have often wondered about this very matter. Do any States permit/allow/require a farmer to title and license a farm tractor or other motorized piece of farm equipment, especially if it is used on public highways? Minnesota does not, and even grants exemptions for trucks that are registered as "Implements of Husbandry". Maybe a separate classification of titles for farm tractors (especially expensive ones!) wouldn't be such a bad idea. Sell your tractor? Then simply transfer the title at the local DMV. That way, everyone involved has prima-facia proof of ownership (or non-ownership). Have a blessed day!
Merlin

In addition to your personal records of the tractors suggested by John, having them carried on your insurance for however long you have owned them would add even more evidence to your claim of ownership if it were to be challenged.

I've often wondered, in this day & age of the internet & scams, people now demand 'cash only' sales to sell you something.

Huh.

Kinda leaves me out of the buying loop, because what if that tractor you sold me is stolen? If I pay with a check I have a paper trail. Cash only - boy that leaves me the buyer hanging out unprotected.

One just needs a paper trail, and keep track of serial numbers.

When buying from someone with a trac cellphone number, paying in cash, and driving away - the buyer is a lot less protected than they realize. How do you prove where you bought the thing from?

--->Paul

The last tractor that I bought the guy gave me a bill of sale without me asking for it. I would probably not have asked for it but I guess that it is a good idea.

If you buy a stolen tractor, it doesn't matter how much paperwork you have- the tractor is simply confiscated from you, and given back to the rightful owner. Granted, good paperwork would help shield you from prosecution for the theft, but financially, you're probably stuck. You can sue the thief you bought it from, but good luck on collecting anything.

(quoted from post at 07:17:38 09/23/10) I've often wondered, in this day & age of the internet & scams, people now demand 'cash only' sales to sell you something.

Click to expand...

Anyone with a computer and a printer can make a legitimate looking cashier's check these days. Personal checks are drawn against unsecured funds, meaning that just because the person wrote the check, the money isn't necessarily in the account.

Cash is more "secure" from a financial standpoint, and I can understand why people prefer it. It's tough to counterfeit, especially on short notice, and when you have it in hand you know the funds are there.

Don't give those morons in St. Paul another idea for the next cash cow. I have 30 or more tractors in various conditions and it's bad enough paying license and transfer fees for my vehicles I drive let alone on a farm tractor and yes I do actively farm.

You're saying that you want the state to track and tax your tractors?

If you really want to make the effort, you can get the bill of sale notarized. Was necessary when I sold a tractor for export. Seems they're real picky at the port about ownership documentation, with serial numbers. Solid ID required for both seller and buyer.

Finding a public notary wasn't simple. Ended up at a UPS Store. Banks notarize, but only for their clients. My bank wasn't nearby.

Big wad of Franklins.

I think if you have friends and neighbors to verify you've owned a piece of machinery for several years would also go a long way. Even better is if a dealer can verify you've had work done and buy parts for a particular machine. Dave

Sold my 48 8N two months ago to man that lived about 35 miles away in Al. Wanted a bill of sale. Said had jut gotten out of prison for recieving stolen property. Wrote him one and asked how was gong to get tractor home. Said was gong to drive it. Asked how fast it would go on paved road and I told him about 8mph.

On a smaller scale, I bought a set of truck tires from a guy I had known for years. He said they had about 100 miles on them, and he wanted a more aggressive tread pattern. I mounted them on my pickup, and just a few days later our small town cop showed up at my door telling me the tires were stolen, and I had to dismount them and turn them into the police. I told him to produce the original bill of sale for the tires and I'd turn them in to him. Never heard another word about those tires. They stayed on my truck until they were worn out.

That particular cop was not a stellar example of honesty, and I always believed the guy I bought the tires from, but it made me realize that I don't want to risk fooling with what might be stolen property.

Now that I think of it, I also bought one of my tractors from the same guy, but I've had it for nearly 40 years, and he bought it at a local auction. . .

I am against the gov't getting involved with titles/taxes, etc.

Paul

Never thought of that myself, but brings up an idea
you do have insurance on your equipment, are they registered by serial number or any special markings?
Or Have record how long said tractors have been in possession and insured by same company ?

If you have em insured for ten years, would be hard to prove you stole it 3 years ago.

Looking at the other side of this fence - I own 3 Farmall Cubs 2 John Deere B's 1 Massy Harris Mustang and a Kabota with no paperwork and 3 of them have no sir. tags.

How would I prove to anyone that I owned them if they came up missing?

Interesting thread.

I only own two tractors at the moment, and H Farmall and a D19 AC but........

My father-in-law bought the H in 1958 and my mother-in-law gave it to me when he died in 1980, with no more formalities than her telling me it was mine.

I bought the D19 from a dealer in 1972, and sold it to my father in 1974. I'm sure I got a bill of sale when I bought it, but when I sold it to my father I'm sure he just handed me a check and drove off with it. When he died in 1985, my mother gave it back to me, also with nothing more than verbal formalities.

Probably the best proof of ownership I have is the neighbors seeing me use them for years.

As the Old Country Lawyer said, possession is nine points of the law.