Advice

I'm looking to purchase a tractor, cutter, rake, and baler. My neighbor has been cutting the hay off of our 60 acres of pasture, I'm interested in cutting it myself and also doing some "custom baling" for others in the area in SW Arkansas. I'm not looking to make money... maybe cover some of the expenses.

Our "farm" is owned by me and my 3 brothers and we have to keep it cleaned up anyway. The neighbor cuts the hay, but doesn't bush hog another 10 or so acres that doesn't produce decent hay. So, I'm having to keep all that cut and trimmed up, out of "our pockets."

Anyway, since I'm losing money as it is, I may as well try to help cover costs.

Questions, 1. What's the lowest (reasonable) HP tractor that would be practical to cut, pull a 4X5 baler, and be fuel efficient. 2. What brand and model tractors do you think are durable (no, I'm not trying to stir anything up). 3. What's a decent baler and disc cutter.

Looking for slightly used or new. I don't care about bells and whistles, just durable machinery.

Thanks.

First question. What dealers are located in your area? A 60 horsepower tractor would be the minimum I would go with.If you are looking at new or slightly used equipment, most anything of that nature should do you a decent job.I prefer Deere or New Holland hay equipment.Case IH should also be considered. Vermeer also builds a very dependable round baler if you have a dealer near you. With hay equipment, I would want a good dealer nearby so a lot of road time going for parts would be held to a minimun.

New? Wow. You are right, not going to make money on 60 acres.



A little secret, if you will be getting a used tractor - While a 50-60 hp tractor will manage to get you by; often times a 80-110 hp tractor is a little cheaper & will serve you better.

You can always throttle back if you have too much hp; you are sunk if you are under-powered.

I wouldn't look for the lowest hp you can get by with.

Efficency is nice, but in the real world, dependablity with hay making is a lot more important.

Just a couple observations. I donno what is the 'best'.

What works for me is 'paid for, well used but servicable'.

I'd suggest if you are doing over 60 acres of hay in a year.... (Grass, alfalfa, or mix? One, 2, 3, or 4 cuttings per year?)

You'll be wanting a few tractors, 2 well used but in good shape that can handle cutting, baling, and loading the bales might be better than one spebndy new one; and probably one that handles the rake.

One can do it all, but time gets short & hitching things up many times a day gets _real_ old.

--->Paul

Randy;

Two tractors are better then one,I know. It would take me a good half hour to drop the disk and hook up the planter. Planter was 3pt. Anyway,you can never have too many tractors.

steve

Yep, I'd have to cut a lot more than 60 acres to break even, and I plan to. It's just grass, 3 cuttings per year.

We already have a big and old tractor 4620 JD, not much of an efficient hay tractor. My thinking is that I can operate the "farm" as a "for-profit" business and depreciate the equipment as well as deduct all direct expenses.

Yep, I'd have to cut a lot more than 60 acres to break even, and I plan to. It's just grass, 3 cuttings per year.

We already have a big and old tractor 4620 JD, not much of an efficient hay tractor. My thinking is that I can operate the "farm" as a "for-profit" business and depreciate the equipment as well as deduct all direct expenses.

We have JD and New Holland close. Also, Vermeer dealer is close. My Fatther-in-law has a 65 HP JD that does a good job. It labors a little with thick windrows and going up hill, but seems to do well.

If you don't need the hay yourself, rent the pasture to someone like the neighbor that is cutting it now with an agreement that he mow everything and not just what he wants to bale. Save you the expense of all that machinery and the stress of trying to juggle jobs etc with weather windows broken parts, persnickety customers, etc.


Just my 1 cent.

Dave

For a haybine stick with new holland. Just get a regular haybine and keep it inside. Not too much $ and will operate for years.

For a hay rake, buy a ground driven wheel rake. Almost no maint. other than greasing and replace a tooth once in a while. (has 5-8 5 foot tall wheels)

For a baler, if you are doing rounds, New Holland bar types are pretty decent on maint.- never owned one but several neighbors did and loved them. If a big square is what you want- ask someone who owned one first, not the dealer...

Notice I did not mention tractors yet? A good tractor for just doing hay would be a 4020 deere, 986 IH, 200 AC or something similar. For doing hay, it is better to get one that is easy handling. The 986 of all the ones above is not the best handling but was a pretty good one since it had no turbo and a really good motor. The deere 4020 you must know about and the AC 200 is cheap HP and good on fuel. Stay away from Whites unless it is a 135 series 3 or newer.

If you just want a neat shiney tractor that costs a fortune, spend like mad then and buy what you want.

If you buy a lineup like what I put here you could use the 4620 deere you already have and add one of these for 8-10,000$
Haybine should not be more than 7-8000 for a nice one. Don't skimp and buy junk.

Rake maybe 3,000 at the most.

Baler depends on what type. Round baler maybe 8-11,000$ for a nice one. Big square quite a bit more.

So, for 30,000 or so you can be in business. Good luck and hope this gives you some ideas!

Paul I don't agree with your entering premise--"not going to make money on 60 acres".
If you can't make money on 60 acres then you can't make money on 1000 acres. I suspect what you really mean is you can't make a living on 60 acres like our grandparents did and that is certainly true. Remember when comparing it is all on a per acre basis.

Sounds to me like all you really need is a tractor and a bush-hog. Investing and maintaining all the machinery needed to produce hay on your 60 acres is very expensive and time consuming. If your neighbor has it all and is doing in currently i'd stay with that.

Get yourself something in the range of a MF265 or a Ford5610 and an 8' to 10' bushhog and have at it.

If you just REALLY want to make hay they you do actually need about 70HP PTO a at a minimum and a a decent disc mower, rake and a newer baler. You also will need to become a mechanic because the disc mower needs regular maintenance and balers must be maintained and adjusted properly or you will begin to lose sanity when your baler stops making bales with windrows on the ground and weather approaching. Then you will also need a good amount of time because hooking-up and dropping a disc mower can be a real chore. Like said below it is gonna run close to $30K+ to acquire all that machinery. If you buy very used hay equipment you will be sorry unless you are an experienced implement mechanic with a great deal of time on your hands.

Also, you will never make back your investment by doing some custom baling on the side. It would take full-time hours on your part to make back that kind of money after looking at the costs in diesel, maintenance and time.

Good luck!

STOP: YOU AND 3 OTHERS OWN THIS? RED FLAG SOON AS YOU MAKE MONEY THEY WILL WANT SOME OR SELL FOR A HOUSE LOT ETC. Do not do partnerships and do not put money into land you don't own. I would not buy anything for "cutting other fields" unless i had a lease on them!!!!!

Buying new equipment was the part that maybe made me think this won't be a paying enterprise.

For 60 acres he'll need good equipment for sure; but tractors at least, one can do much better buying good used. And balers as well, let someone else take the intital depreciation. Should this deal not work out in a couple years one can sell the good used equipment for not much overall loss. Buying new, and you are in the hole as you drive it off the lot.

I don't think he should buy old junk, that doesn't work either.

60 acres of hay plus custom work can sure make some money tho.

It was the 'new' to start with that I'm commenting on.

Sounds like he has more farm background than many as well. Some folks want to go into baling 60 acres of hay with their 8N and a NH 69 baler that they bought last year, and never actually saw a baler work.... Never really know the skill level of a person.

--->Paul

You can make hay on the cheap like some on here do. I have tried it, had a disk, mower, tedder, rake, and two balers with less than $7,000 paid for all. It took me all summer to put up 40 acres with my work schedule because I never wanted to cut more than 6 to 8 acres at a time cause something was always breaking down. A pretty small tractor will pull a 4X5 baler if you don't have hills, weight and breaks will be more important than hp. If you want to make hay for fun go at it, if you want to do custom work you will need $30,000+ worth of equipment cause no pay'n customer wants his hay on the ground while you are hunting up parts and it's going to be real hard to cash flow hay equipment for 60 acres.

Best thing I can tell you to do would be to shop around and find some one who will cut and bale it on the shares and you and your brothers sell your share.

As for best color of equipment, there are good and bad in all of them. Best thing to do is stick with something with a strong network of local dealers that have been in buisness 10+ years.

Good luck.

Dave

I appreciate your input. I'm not looking to make money, just hoping to to break even.

We're not gonna do a partnership. We all have good jobs (RN, Pharmacist, Engineer, Sales and Marketing) and don't need the money. Right now, we all make monthly "donations" to a farm account to cover expenses, rebuilt and stocked the pond, bought a tractor and bush hog, building a house, etc...

I'm looking to help cover the expenses and make it deductible on my taxes.

Thanks for your input, we already have an old 4620 and 14' cutter that I use to keep the place clean. Just looking for some way to break even instead of it being a direct expense.

Dave,
Probably the best advice of all. However, if I can make it break even, it will be worth it until I lose interest I guess. We already rent the land for hay and the neighbor has looked after our place since the late 60's. I wouldn't ask them for anything.

Plus, a hobby gets me away from the wife.

Randy, I see you have a JD 4620 already. If that tractor is not "special" to you. Use it as a trade-in for the start of your hay enterprise. You will find that that 1000 rpm pto on that JD 4620 is a PIA on hay equipment. Most hay equipment you will find used is going to be 540 pto. I know some here will tell you to just use an adapter and run slow. On that tractor you don"t have any torque at lower tractor speeds.
I would try to get two good used tractors. One 75-85 hp to pull the baler with. The second can be smaller it would be the raking tractor. You are going to need to be raking and baling at the same time most of the time.
For mowing your hay. If it is mostly grass hay then you don"t have to have a conditioner. I would then look at a drum mower they mow fast and cost less.
For your rake I would go with a wheel rake. Its size will depend on what baller you buy. You don"t want too big of windrow for a smaller baler.
For a baler you said that you have several different Dealers near you. You need to research your local hay market. This makes a big difference. In North-east Iowa here you will take a pretty big discount on hay that is not mesh wrapped. If you have to handle twine wrapped hay much more than twice than the losses go up. Now in southern Iowa and northern Missouri the discount is not much. Also a mesh wrap baler lets you bale faster. Two or three turns of the bale and you have it wrap verses a turn for each wrap of twine. Now after that balers to get: In my area here Vermeers sells for a little less. There are deals to be found on them if you find them at a competing dealer IE. JD, NH, CIH. I would stay away from the NH chain balers if you are going to sell hay. First I don"t think that they ever made one that used mesh wrap. Second they make a shaggy looking bale, yes they weight alright but they look rough, plus the chains can be high maintenance. The guys on here like them because they are cheap and will bale just about anything you get it them. They just don"t make a very good looking bale.(I am not knocking them. I owned one for years. 85-90) If you are going to be baling 60 acres plus want to do some custom work you are going to need a higher capacity baler.

I would think long and hard after doing some research on the local markets. You need to know the demand for hay and custom services in your area. Around here the demand for custom baling is going down fast. The smaller livestock guys are quiting in droves as they age. Also as round balers become more affordable more people are buying their own.
The other factor I would worry about is you not having that much control over the hay ground you currently have. How is that??? You are one of four brothers owning something. That is setting the stage for conflict if they think you are making money baling the hay. Money makes things go hay wire pretty fast.

One more thought that might save you. Put the land up for rent/bids (hay market garden etc) That way they pay you and what they get is up to them. have a paper drawn up and what is expected.

Ok, from a post you made down the page a bit I understand more about what is go'n on.

First thing I would do is go pull some soil samples, (get several and map where you got them, dirt can change colors alot on 60 acres) and see what you have to start with. If a neighbor has been pack'n the hay off every year I'd say you are going to be lacking some. You have all winter to pic up iron, you will need to get P, K, and lime on this fall.

Dave