Do you guys double clutch? I have been taught to never touch the clutch except when taking off. I have tried double clutching but with absolutely no success (other than going from fourth to fifth on my Farmall 300). The only reason I ask is that I noticed Hugh on Ice Road Truckers double clutches. Of course they never show much of that aspect during the show. Just curious.
- Thread starter Bkpigs
- Start date
armand tatro
Well-known Member
In Il. when you take a driver test the book says youu will use the clutch! Now having said that you use the foot throtle to adjust the engine speed inbetween one gear to the next which is what double-clutching does. When double-clutching you sometimes have to use the foot throtle to adjust engine along with using the clutch. Armand
I used to double clutch until I found that I was adjuting the clutch all the time... so I quit using the clutch.
Now I'm finishing changing a clutch because the adjuster ring was seized...
To answer the question... most guys I know don't use the clutch other than for starting and stoping.
Rod
Now I'm finishing changing a clutch because the adjuster ring was seized...
To answer the question... most guys I know don't use the clutch other than for starting and stoping.
Rod
bk, perhaps the engine speed doesn't drop or rise quick enough with your movement of the throttle lever on your "300" to "cooperate" with double-clutching.
I have a Dorf Exploder with a 5-speed and the 'puter futzes with the speed drop/idle speed when you pop your foot off of the accelerator making double clutch all but impossible with that rig as well. You gotta find enough hands to steer, shift, and shut the ignition off for a second to get the ^&@% thing to slow down!
(WHY is this important, you might ask... well, when you have a little Dorf 'Sploder or Stranger with the failure-prone hydraulic clutch/TO bearing combo sometimes 'ya just gotta shift 'em without a clutch to limp home!)
I have a Dorf Exploder with a 5-speed and the 'puter futzes with the speed drop/idle speed when you pop your foot off of the accelerator making double clutch all but impossible with that rig as well. You gotta find enough hands to steer, shift, and shut the ignition off for a second to get the ^&@% thing to slow down!
(WHY is this important, you might ask... well, when you have a little Dorf 'Sploder or Stranger with the failure-prone hydraulic clutch/TO bearing combo sometimes 'ya just gotta shift 'em without a clutch to limp home!)
old
Well-known Member
- Location
- Camdenton Missouri
Depends on the truck and if it has s clutch brake or not etc. Most of the time I do not use the clutch other then to stop at a light but then some times it all has to do with what is going one. Ya not an answer but hay I have 1.5 mil plus under my belt in/on the road with bikes/cars/trucks
Mark - IN.
Well-known Member
I don't drive a semi, but have pickups and manual transmissions all of my life. I rarely ever use a clutch other than taking off. Learned young, when started driving. The secret is syncronizing the RPMs with the teeth, and just easing, not banging them together. As far as trying that with a tractor, tractors don't go through gears, they just go into a desired gear to fit a job.
Mark
Mark
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Neighbor had a 1940 something Ford grain truck that we had to double clutch. I was told it was because it had no synchronizers in the transmission. Never had to on our Chevy grain trucks of the same vintage or any other truck, pickup, car or semi tractor of newer production.
Funny thing was, I could never tell that double clutching helped synchronize gears, it just kept you busy doing something while waiting for the engine to slow down which helped catch the next gear.
To this day, I've yet to have someone explain to me what happens mechanically when you double clutch a truck rather than single clutch.
Funny thing was, I could never tell that double clutching helped synchronize gears, it just kept you busy doing something while waiting for the engine to slow down which helped catch the next gear.
To this day, I've yet to have someone explain to me what happens mechanically when you double clutch a truck rather than single clutch.
ive driven trucks since 1982, i use the clutch to start up and at a traffic light otherwise never,now changes have been made to truck transmissions so the newbies can drive them,cdl schools teach students to duble clutch, but if you can pick up the rythm and timing you can float the gears up or down, this takes pratice, lots of pratice, and every power train/ engine combo has a different feel to it,funniest thing i ever had happen was one time a couple of years i gave a ride to a stranded driver , he needed to get where i was going, he drove for swift, he watched me run up through the tranny on a 15 speed in the 379 pete i was driving , then proceded to tell me his instructor/ trainer told him that wasnt possible, well, i said you just set there and watched me do it , i showed him the basics but showing isnt the way, you have to do it to be able to get it right, and no, he did not get to try it out on my rig lol also some trannys are easier to float shift than others , hugh's rig, like most of the carlisle rigs should have a 18 speed in it, and he may just be more comfortable using the clutch some drivers are some do it old school, the main thing is dont miss and grind the gears
I'm a volunteer firefighter in my municipality and our tanker is a Mack with a 10 speed. I'm just in the learning phase with it and it seems that the testers here want you to use the clutch. A few of the guys are truck drivers and every time I'm out with them for a lesson they tell me that they never use the clutch other than from a stop. The problem I have is that every time I try to use the clutch for anything but starting from a stop, I get messed up. I find it much easier to shift both up and down without the clutch. Practice practice practice!
I use the clutch to take the shifter out of gear and then "match" the speed back in. On the high horse power engines in todays trucks if you miss a gear half way you can knock a gear tooth off in a heart beat. If you have a big gap in the gears you might have to double clutch to get it to match. My Dodge 350 Diesel pickup has a pretty big jump from second to third. If you are pulling hard and need to make that down shift then it needs doubled clutched.
Also the trucks you are seeing on that show are being ran in extreme cold. Some truck transmissions won"t match shift cold.
Also the trucks you are seeing on that show are being ran in extreme cold. Some truck transmissions won"t match shift cold.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
When I was a kid my dad had a pair of IH 55 scrapers that had five-speed transmissions with no synchronizers. Those transmissions could not be shifted using the clutch, although you could get a reasonable shift by double-clutching. Most of time you shifted without clutching. Those habits stuck with me, and when I drive a car with a manual transmission I sometimes catch myself shifting without the clutch; not a good idea since you can damage the synchronizers in a modern transmission.
trucker 40
Member
I drove about 2 million miles and didnt ever push on the clutch except to start and stop.I was a truck mechanic for 10 years before I drove and drivers who used the clutch all the time wore out way more clutches than drivers who didnt use the clutch.A clutch in a truck where they used it to shift might not last but a year or 2,one in a truck where they didnt use the clutch might last 5 or more years and everything in there would be in better shape like the input shaft and bushings for the fork.
Jim in Ma.
Well-known Member
Years ago when I started working for a highway dept. They had 2 new snow large fighters (same engine and trans.). The first one I could shift without the clutch but the other one, noway, you had to use the clutch.
I think a lot has to do with how they were adjusted.
I think a lot has to do with how they were adjusted.
john in la
Well-known Member
I always use the clutch in my pickup to save the synchronizers.
Wile I very seldom drive a truck the size of a C60 or F600 anymore I use the clutch in those also.
BUT I never double clutch; just one push for each shift.
At work we have Eaton 9; 10 and 13 speeds. I never use the clutch on these except for complete stops.
My left knee is bad enough from 30+ years of pressing a clutch just at complete stops never the less pushing the clutch twice each time I shift to another gear.
Wile I very seldom drive a truck the size of a C60 or F600 anymore I use the clutch in those also.
BUT I never double clutch; just one push for each shift.
At work we have Eaton 9; 10 and 13 speeds. I never use the clutch on these except for complete stops.
My left knee is bad enough from 30+ years of pressing a clutch just at complete stops never the less pushing the clutch twice each time I shift to another gear.
willie in mn
Well-known Member
This is what worked for me, over 40 years on the road. Almost always used clutch when moving the stick, shifted 2-3 speed rear or trans splitter with throttle only. Only floated when showing a newbie that it can be done with practice. Used 2 fingers on stick for better feel when the teeth lined up. Useing the clutch eliminates the shock load on gear teeth in case the RPMs are just a tad off. Only clutch failure I had was from rear main seal leaking, clutch got oil soaked, not worn.
IMHO, clutch failure comes from slipping. Never touched throttle until clutch was all the way out. Modern engines will pick up the load at idle.
FWIW, if you can shift a rear engine stage coach, screaming Detroit, non-synchro 4 speed, no tach, engine 40 feet away so you can't hear it, clutch or float, then you can float anything. Otherwise best to use clutch.
your opinion may vary.
Willie
IMHO, clutch failure comes from slipping. Never touched throttle until clutch was all the way out. Modern engines will pick up the load at idle.
FWIW, if you can shift a rear engine stage coach, screaming Detroit, non-synchro 4 speed, no tach, engine 40 feet away so you can't hear it, clutch or float, then you can float anything. Otherwise best to use clutch.
your opinion may vary.
Willie
J.Wondergem
Well-known Member
- Location
- Rockford, Mi.
I drove 45 years, before I retired. The only truck I had to double clutch was a 1949 Ford with straight cut gears, and no synchronizers. I'm like every one else, never touch the clutch, other than stopping and starting.
J,
I learned a lot about double clutching on a 1947 1 1/2 ton Ford truck that we used to haul apples. I always marveled how my boss could be going downhill in fourth gear at a pretty good clip and rev that old flathead up to get it into third without even a scratch.
I still double clutch some when using my Ferguson tractor and even when using my lawn mower.
)
I learned a lot about double clutching on a 1947 1 1/2 ton Ford truck that we used to haul apples. I always marveled how my boss could be going downhill in fourth gear at a pretty good clip and rev that old flathead up to get it into third without even a scratch.
I still double clutch some when using my Ferguson tractor and even when using my lawn mower.
)iF I HAD A FLEET OF TRUCKS LIKE MY BOSS HAD I WOULD REQUIRE YOU TO DOUBLE CLUTCH JUST AS INSTRUCTIONS TELL YOU FOR THESE REASONS.Driving in the east coast area there are two things that would happen---Those using no clutch would eighter tear out trans componets or more than likely tear out the center of clutch leaving rig an driver stuck an probably not in a good or safe place. Load would not get delivered on time.There would be a large towing bill. Thhere would be layover pay for driver.Dispatcher would have to reshuffle back haul.All i can think of now but not good for anyone. For those who double clutch properly perhaps after a long time clutch perlacement might be needes but on trucking co that i worked for thhat was rarely. An if it did driver would notice an tell matience an clutch would be replaced after truck was home--load delivered-back haul picked up . Driver would be given a spare truck an trucking didnt miss a beat. Again count the cost of being broke down shifting both ways an it is ovious to me why i was told you double shift as instructions say in both Eaton-Rockwell INSTRUCTIONS SAY.
Click around on Eaton Fuller's website. They have instructional videos on how to use their transmissions.
If you look on the right side of this webpage, you will see a link to a video entitled "professional shifting performance"
how to clutch
If you look on the right side of this webpage, you will see a link to a video entitled "professional shifting performance"
how to clutch
I put a few million miles driving semis and regular trucks. Of course this was before any puter stuff. There is no way you can shift some of those old Freightliners without double clutcheing unless you very lucky(especially down shifting). Most of those guys on tv would get fired if they worked for large company. One of the nicest trucks I drove was Macks with 5 speed and a 2 speed Brownie and with a 100,000 pound load youd you had to rev that engine pretty high when double clutching or you wouldn't get it any gear. my 2 cents
guido
Well-known Member
Hello bkpigs,
There are things that happens when you shift without the cluch.
One is that the constant mesh of the gear train, will squize the lubricant out of all the mating gear surfaces, including the differential/s. Over a period of time the gears wear out and get sloppy, or noisy.
In the fuller transmision, had some apart, the main shaft and the key will show a lot of wear, and would have to be replaced during normal maintenance. Before synthetic lubricants we would re bearing a transmission at 500.000 miles.
Now days you can double that easly.
With the new lubricants, it is not as big of a problem with the wear, but it is still a concern. Double clutching is what you do, that takes the tension off the gear so the oil can flow, unless the tranny has syncronizers.
Guido.
There are things that happens when you shift without the cluch.
One is that the constant mesh of the gear train, will squize the lubricant out of all the mating gear surfaces, including the differential/s. Over a period of time the gears wear out and get sloppy, or noisy.
In the fuller transmision, had some apart, the main shaft and the key will show a lot of wear, and would have to be replaced during normal maintenance. Before synthetic lubricants we would re bearing a transmission at 500.000 miles.
Now days you can double that easly.
With the new lubricants, it is not as big of a problem with the wear, but it is still a concern. Double clutching is what you do, that takes the tension off the gear so the oil can flow, unless the tranny has syncronizers.
Guido.
I think it all boils down to how everyone can shift without grinding.Having said that,I drove with my dad and he grinds almost all the time.His truck he had 5-6 years and no clutch or trans in it yet.I myself almost never clutch,it has alot to do with how the throttle is set up.If you have very little travel in the throttle it is alot harder to match revs.And if you double clutch and don't match revs you probably do more damage than a little grinding.
showcrop
Well-known Member
I suppose if I were running cross country I might use the clutch, But driving my triaxle with heavy loads and 18 speeds there is way to much shifting to even dream of using the clutch. I use it for starting and stopping and an occasional unplanned situation but almost all the time you just slacken the drive train with the throttle, then just slip fom one to the next. It doesn't need to be quick you just ease it in. Sometimes you may need to give the throttle a second tap to slacken it again but it just slips on in. Years ago I dove a Mack with an auxiliary stick doing 200+ stops per day. The second morning the boss taught me how to start and stop with no clutch. The Human knee is just not capable of the kind of work a heavy duty clutch demands to do it every shift unless it's only a dozen stops a day.
Low Gear, what happens mechanically is you resync your clutch and trans with the double clutch so you don't have to get the RPM'S right on your own. Also, the only damage done to the trans by floating, when done properly, is the gears develope a slight taper over a very long time. That means you would need more gears in an overhaul when one gear maybe tore up. This would be because of matching tapers. A little better than 5 million miles behind the wheel, plus years of IHC and Detroit mechanical experience.
Dean Olson
Well-known Member
I float the gears and only use the clutch to start and stop. I drive an 05 pete with a C15 cat and 575,000 miles so far with no issues. Our 03&04 Freightliners with the Detroit 60's have around 6-700K with the original clutches. We just retired a 2000 freightliner with 1 million miles. I think we put 1 clutch in it. No trans work or rearend work on any of them other that routine fluid changes. I am still just the rookie but my cousin with 30 years and my Father and Uncle with 40 years driving express the opinion that double clutching was for the old trucks.
trucker 40
Member
Thats nonsense!You can think that if you want to,but I have seen transmissions go a million miles and almost nobody double clutches.There is not even an argument over it.
I have driven trucks where you needed to touch the clutch in a gear or 2,and of course if you want to you can double clutch,but if you drive in a city,one morning of double clutching will cure you of that nonsense.
I have driven trucks where you needed to touch the clutch in a gear or 2,and of course if you want to you can double clutch,but if you drive in a city,one morning of double clutching will cure you of that nonsense.
trucker 40
Member
On big trucks the gears are NOT synchronized.So when you double clutch,you push down the clutch,move the stick to neutral,let cluch back out,let engine slow down RPMS,push down clutch,again,and put trans mission in next gear.You are making the gears match speed of the truck,so that it can be shifted.If you dont let the clutch back out after you put it in neutral,you cant shift it because when you push the clutch in,you disconnect the transmission from the engine and it slows down the gears faster than the engine slows down,then you cant shift until you reconnect the transmision to the engine by letting the clutch out again.
Its really nuts.For a long time now,people dont use the clutch.Years ago when they had straight cut gears,not heat treated,you would wear them out by grinding them.So you double clutched everything,cars and trucks.If you wear out hard,heat treated, gears we have now, grinding them,you better quit driving because you arent good at it!
Double clutching,even if it is recommended by transmission companys is just not done.Its not necessary.
Its really nuts.For a long time now,people dont use the clutch.Years ago when they had straight cut gears,not heat treated,you would wear them out by grinding them.So you double clutched everything,cars and trucks.If you wear out hard,heat treated, gears we have now, grinding them,you better quit driving because you arent good at it!
Double clutching,even if it is recommended by transmission companys is just not done.Its not necessary.
guido
Well-known Member
Hello lenND,
Thanks for your post, i think you have said it pretty well.
At the highth of our operation we had All the trucks run 100.000 a year.
Every time I turned around there was one coming in for service. We had a few driver go a million accident free miles. Those were the days of pride and professionalism.
Drive safely..............Guido.
Thanks for your post, i think you have said it pretty well.
At the highth of our operation we had All the trucks run 100.000 a year.
Every time I turned around there was one coming in for service. We had a few driver go a million accident free miles. Those were the days of pride and professionalism.
Drive safely..............Guido.
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