i posted last week on a plane crash here, in which the only survivors were 2 young boys thrown clear of the wreckage as it impacted, they were in critical condition, it looks now like they both are going to make it, it will be a long road but there in upgraded condition now, crash estimated [ not official] to be caused by overloaded airplane, 7 people + luggage in a 6 passenger plane, plane to low on final approach, due to the altitude, nearly 7000ft, engine power down about 15 % just couldnt pull up 5 dead at the scene including the boys parents
- Thread starter ericlb
- Start date
GeneMO
Well-known Member
- Location
- Pilot Grove, Mo.
A similar accident happened in my community about 15 years ago. It was on takeoff, but the plane was overloaded with the passengers luggage. The bad thing was that the pilot survived, but his daughter was killed. The dad was a highly decorated Vietnam helicopter pilot.
Gene
Gene
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
thats why ground school teaches you how to do a weight and balance.
My guess is it was one of those "things" that they had done before without incident.
Some people are just bone headed.
Unlike some ground vehicles, you cannot safely increase the load or deviate from the weight & balance parameters on an aircraft without increasing the risk of damage or crash.
Some people are just bone headed.
Unlike some ground vehicles, you cannot safely increase the load or deviate from the weight & balance parameters on an aircraft without increasing the risk of damage or crash.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
7000 foot altitude or 7000 foot density altitude? Big difference. If the temperature is 80 degrees F, at 7000 feet field elevation the density altitude will be over ten thousand feet, possible very close to the overloaded plane's service ceiling.
Thought I was going to see one on take off around 1974 or 1975. I had a third interest in a Cessna 177. We rented it back to the airport to help with the cost. I was out flying when the airport radioed me that some one wanted the plane. We paid for our own gas when taking the plane out so when we brought it in we topped off the tank for who ever would take out the plane next. After it was topped off four heavy people came out and got in the plane. I mean big fat heavy. This was a hot summer day and I said to the owner of the airport (Oh My Gosh). Corn was planted between where we were standing and the runway and they were to the end of the runway before we could see the plane lift above the corn. No one around us said a word until we could see the plane. No one had to worry about them coming up into the traffic pattern as they were still climbing when they were just a spec. 150 HP Lycoming was not enough to feel like things were working correctly on hot days in the 1969 Cardnel 177 with four 150 pound people.
I agree about weight and balance. We just carried one out on a cessna 421 on thursday. The pilot tried to say that when we did the amendment adding another 140 lbs he could carry another passenger. Had to break the news he couldn't without another seat...Pilots are a special breed you could say...
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
There has been a rash of crashes around here too.
Often it's pilots with too little seat time and too much airplane.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/06/25/mtl-aeropro-fined.html
Those V-tailed Beechcraft are called Doctor killers for a reason.
Know why Beechcraft have a 2nd engine? After the first engine fails, it's there to carry the aircraft of the scene of the crash.
Often it's pilots with too little seat time and too much airplane.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2010/06/25/mtl-aeropro-fined.html
Those V-tailed Beechcraft are called Doctor killers for a reason.
Know why Beechcraft have a 2nd engine? After the first engine fails, it's there to carry the aircraft of the scene of the crash.
the teraine here varries from 5700 ft to a peak of 12,003 altitude,[ seirra blanca peak] this airport although not as bad as the old one, is a pilots airport to fly into, approach is to come in high, drop, flare, and set it on the runway, flatland pilots use to a shallow decent, slight flare, and land get fooled by what looks like a flat meadow on the eastern edge of the runway, its not flat at all but raises subatancialy towards the runway, if there too low, on approach, they find themselves down on power due to the high altitude, with a full or over full plane they cant climb up to the runway in time to save it, no place to turn either, mountains on both sides
Hi Goose: Yep, there shouldn't bee many old & bold pilots.. Lots more "bold people" on highways & byways that do not understand how close they are to to the max limits of safe driving.. I guess everyone pushes the limits some but when I was flying I did not have to worry about another airplane running into me very often. I did cause a state trooper to slam on his brakes so hard he smoked all four tires down to a stop from 65mph.. He came out from under an overpass just as I was pulling up to go over the pavement on the other side of the over pass. I was hidden from his view untill maybe 1 second befor crossing in front of him. I sorta like remembering that...
He probably remembered that for a while too and I'll bet he had to check state regs later. Wasn't near as much danger as texting or eating and talking on cell phone while steering with one knee.. like many do now.. Right?
Decades ago there were more light aircraft mishaps in Summer because of low time pilots taking big cross country flights that they were not acustom to.. Mountain flying by "flatlanders" is another bad mixture.. ag (ret)
He probably remembered that for a while too and I'll bet he had to check state regs later. Wasn't near as much danger as texting or eating and talking on cell phone while steering with one knee.. like many do now.. Right?
Decades ago there were more light aircraft mishaps in Summer because of low time pilots taking big cross country flights that they were not acustom to.. Mountain flying by "flatlanders" is another bad mixture.. ag (ret)
agpilot,
Glad you made it to retirement, I guess you kept the "bold" to a minimum! Funny story on pulling up and scaring the beejeebies out of a trooper.
I thought you might appreciate these pictures of the cotton being sprayed down here.
Isn't any doubt, you guys can get down low.
And here he is pulling up (not a cop in sight).
And spraying, you can see his tail just at the left side of the picture.
And now the bollwevil eradication folks (government run) are using helicopters to spray. I must admit, the pilot of this thing is just as daring as the airplane pilots as he has to keep moving and miss the power lines but he has a bit wider path. This picture shows where he landed to have the malathion tanks refilled. The old Dodge truck backs up to him and unrolls the hose.
The thing that amazes me, he just climbs up on the copter and drops the nozzle in the tank to fill. The copter is still running, and the blades are pretty darn close to his head. He never even looks up at them.
And he's filled up with chemical and ready to take off again.
Glad you made it to retirement, I guess you kept the "bold" to a minimum! Funny story on pulling up and scaring the beejeebies out of a trooper.
I thought you might appreciate these pictures of the cotton being sprayed down here.
Isn't any doubt, you guys can get down low.
And here he is pulling up (not a cop in sight).
And spraying, you can see his tail just at the left side of the picture.
And now the bollwevil eradication folks (government run) are using helicopters to spray. I must admit, the pilot of this thing is just as daring as the airplane pilots as he has to keep moving and miss the power lines but he has a bit wider path. This picture shows where he landed to have the malathion tanks refilled. The old Dodge truck backs up to him and unrolls the hose.
The thing that amazes me, he just climbs up on the copter and drops the nozzle in the tank to fill. The copter is still running, and the blades are pretty darn close to his head. He never even looks up at them.
And he's filled up with chemical and ready to take off again.
Goose
Well-known Member
Hot air does reduce lift. I remember on time in an old F3D "Willie the Whale" in the Marine Corps. (It was a twin jet, two seat fighter with the pilot and an Airborne Intercept Operator side by side.)
I was in the AIO seat once taking off out of NAS Key West, Florida on an August day with a full fuel load and a runway temp of about 140. There was open ocean off the end of the runway, and I think we kicked up spray for a ways.
I was in the AIO seat once taking off out of NAS Key West, Florida on an August day with a full fuel load and a runway temp of about 140. There was open ocean off the end of the runway, and I think we kicked up spray for a ways.
Hello DownSouth: Nice pictures. Glad you posted them... I wish I would have taken pictures but that was before digital cameras got common. Now kids can use cell phones to snap a picture and click again to send it to another or post on internet. Kinda anazing this digital age, and more to come. The kind of pictures I really would liked to have taken are what my eyes saw as I was flying. I still have images in my mind but no way to show another person.. Live action video in color and with sound would have been great. Take care. ag
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