Dealing with Water in Hydraulic Oil

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Member
I recently purchased a loader tractor and backhoe. The tractor hydraulics were free of (visible) moisture and I did a fluid and filter change. After I hooked up the backhoe, the entire system now is filled with milky oil. Great.

I've got the hydraulic system good and up to temp a few times, but haven't noticed an improvement. Given the system takes 15 gallons, it's an expensive proposition to keep having to change the oil to get rid of the water.

I've run into this before and was wondering if there is any type of bypass filter or water separator that folks have used with success? I've seen offerings by luber-finer and kleenoil for doing what I want to do, but am wondering how well they work. Anyone ever tried just running an fuel water separator?
 
HOW do so many of you guys wind up with water in the hydraulic system... can't say I've EVER dealt with that.
 
Beats me, that's how I bought it :)

I've noticed issues especially with the equipment I park in damp sheds. I'm trying to find a good solution to get the water out since I'm tired of spending hundreds of dollars on changing oil that has minimal number of hours on it.
 
Water and oil will separate eventually. There are several ways to do it.
1) If you let it set long enough the water will settle out into the bottom of the system. That might be a month or two. I have an old Ford 961 that gets condensation water into the rear end oil every winter. I just loosen the drain plug BEFORE it is used each spring. The water will usually come out around the lose plug without taking it out all of the way.
2) Drain all of the hydraulic oil out of your tractor. Put it into something that you can heat. I have used an old electric stove and a steel five gallon pail. DO NOT USE AN OPEN FLAME You will need to heat the oil to about 180-200 degrees. It will separate the water out and not damage the oil. Then just slowly pour the oil out of the pail leaving the water behind in the bottom of the pail.
Last thing. I would try to get all of the mixed oil out of the back hoe. Take lines off, drain valves, blow out cylinders with air, etc. Also find out if your cylinders are leaking. Friend's back hoe sets outside. His boom cylinder was letting rain water in around a bad top seal. Every time he hooked up he was putting water into his tractor system.
 
What I would do is take all the cylinders off and dump out the old oil and fill with new and move the cylinders back and forth to flush them.

Then put all of it back together and refill with new oil, then run the system and check for the milky oil.
 
I'm guessing you don't get water in your diesel tank either. Anywhere its is humid with daily temp swings you get condensation.

Tractors with lots of hours put on them don't have the same problem, usually evaporates off on its own or the castings spend enough time above the dew point it doesn't become a problem.
 
No, but I'm guessing I actually USE (and heat up) my stuff enough that any water from condensation is evaporated before it can begin to accumulate.
 
As someone that has worked on heavy equipment most of my life I've only seen machines with that much water in the hydraulic system a few times. I understand what everyone is talking about when it comes to condensation and yes, that can put a little water into the system over time. However to get enough water to milk up the system like your describing there is most likely a leak somewhere in the system allowing rainwater, etc in, or more likely someone put oil into the system from a from a jug with water in it. That said while leaks allowing water in aren't uncommon, water getting manually from a contaminated jug is the most common way for it to get there in any major amount, at least in my experience.

As far as getting the water out of the system there are filter cartridges available that are designed to draw the water out of the oil. The problem is these are usually designed to be used on a filter buggy and not on the machines system, or if used with the machines system have to be specially plumbed in so as to not damage the system when the filters become clogged/waterlogged, etc. Too these type filters are usually expensive to replace so depending on how much water is in the system as to how many of them you'll need to get all of the water out. In other words even if you went this route and put a filter buggy on the system or went to the expense of hardpiping a filter housing inline, you'd still need to get as much of the water out before hand as possible. The easiest way to do that is by changing the oil several times.

As bad as I know you hate to hear it, a 15 gallon system is actually pretty small as far as hydraulic systems go so your best bet would be to simply change the oil out a few times and take things from there. The way to do it is to work the machine and get the system as hot as possible each time before draining it. I know everyone says that getting the system hot will burn the water out and to a degree that is true but once it becomes emulsified/bonded with the oil your never going to get all of it out that way. I've seen too many people try it and fail to tell you it can be done, because it just ain't gonna happen like that unless you were to run that machine 24/7 for longer than you want to think about it. When the mix turns gray the water and oil are emulsifed/mixed together and getting them to seperate by just running the machine is pretty much hopeless. What will happen is that by running it enough to get it hot you'll get everything mixed up really good so that there will be less free water in the system to get missed when you do drain it. Too with hot oil you'll simply get a more complete drain than you will with cold oil just like when changing the oil in your engine. Also before you drain put every cylinder on the machine in the position where it holds the least amount of oil. In other words suck in every cylinder possible as the rod end holds less oil than the other end. If possible on something like a backhoe don't be afraid to put the boom up in the air which will push oil out of the top of the cyliner and the when the system is drained lower the cylinder and push the oil out of the bottom of the cylinder also. True this won't work on all equipment, and not on alot of the newer stuff with all of the "safety" mechanisms, but it will work on most older equipment. OK, once the oil is drained, if it is possible to spin the engine over without starting do so. This will often cause the pump to push fluid that would otherwise stay in the system back into the tank where it will drain...again DO NOT START THE ENGINE, JUST SPIN IT OVER WITHOUT STARTING....Once you get all of the oil possible out fill the system with fresh oil and immediately run the machine enough to get the hydraulic system hot again. This should allow time for much of the emulsified water and oil left in the system to make it's way back to the tank. So, run the machine for a little bit and then shut it down and drain it again just like I described before, but don't let it set for any length of time before you drain it, just like before drain it hot.


After doing this a time or two the system should be nearly free of the emulsified water/oil and any remaining water left will be of a sufficiently small volume that it will be able to 'burn off' when the system gets hot. Too it wouldn't hurt to try the tank drain each morning for a week or so to get rid of any free water that may have settled out overnight.

I know even with a 15 gallon system that it can be quite expensive to do this several times but if you've ever seen what water in a hydraulic system can do to the pump, the valves, and other system parts you'll understand that the cost of the oil is a small price to pay to keep from paying the big bucks needed when the pump fails and fills the system with debris....then your really talking BIG money to clean the system out.....Been there, done that, for more customers than I care to think about.....

I know change the oil wasn't what you wanted to hear but with smaller systems it's usually alot cheaper than the alternatives which are usually quite expensive. Below I've included a couple of links to Machinery Lubrications website and two articles on water in hydraulic oil. This might give you a little better idea of the damage that can be done as well as introduce you to their site which has alot of good info on the ways and products to keep this problem from happening again.
Damages from water in oil

Getting water out of the oil
 
Great post! Thank you for your thoughts.

You are totally right that this is a small system in the scheme of things. All was fine until I hooked that backhoe up. Who knows how long it sat or how it was protected from the elements.

What I'm tempted to do is plumb up a small pump and a fuel water separator. I've seen the pps media used in those filters do amazing things to purify emulsified oil. I figure just turn the pump on and let it run for a few hours, then cycle the cylinders and keep going until it looks pure, then change the oil again. A good experiment for a rainy day.
 
(quoted from post at 02:28:41 06/21/10) Water and oil will separate eventually. There are several ways to do it......

2) Drain all of the hydraulic oil out of your tractor. Put it into something that you can heat. I have used an old electric stove and a steel five gallon pail. DO NOT USE AN OPEN FLAME You will need to heat the oil to about 180-200 degrees. It will separate the water out and not damage the oil. Then just slowly pour the oil out of the pail leaving the water behind in the bottom of the pail.......
=============================================
Mr. JD Seller, I just discovered your post from 13 years ago. I hope I won't get scolded for waking up an old post.

I've let my JD400 loader/backhoe sit for about 6 months hoping the water and oil would eventually separate. I am relieved to know it will. I'm also relieved to know it should be all separated by now. Thank you for the detailed information.

Question: At 80 years old, I'd rather not crawl under it unless I have to. Do you know if there is a drain plug on the oil reservoir or do I need to siphon it out? This Spring I'm prepared to extricate as much water from the system as possible and do some serious and much needed digging.

This post was edited by NHEngineer on 11/06/2023 at 08:15 am.
 
Good morning, Bob and others: Bob, you address folks reading this as though they are a group with a bad habit. They are not a group, most of them have never met one another. Just my humble opinion.
.
Dennis M. in W. Tenn.
.

This post was edited by DMartin9N-2N on 11/06/2023 at 08:23 am.
 
(quoted from post at 09:14:24 11/06/23)
(quoted from post at 02:28:41 06/21/10) Water and oil will separate eventually. There are several ways to do it......

2) Drain all of the hydraulic oil out of your tractor. Put it into something that you can heat. I have used an old electric stove and a steel five gallon pail. DO NOT USE AN OPEN FLAME You will need to heat the oil to about 180-200 degrees. It will separate the water out and not damage the oil. Then just slowly pour the oil out of the pail leaving the water behind in the bottom of the pail.......
=============================================
Mr. JD Seller, I just discovered your post from 13 years ago. I hope I won't get scolded for waking up an old post.

I've let my JD400 loader/backhoe sit for about 6 months hoping the water and oil would eventually separate. I am relieved to know it will. I'm also relieved to know it should be all separated by now. Thank you for the detailed information.

Question: At 80 years old, I'd rather not crawl under it unless I have to. Do you know if there is a drain plug on the oil reservoir or do I need to siphon it out? This Spring I'm prepared to extricate as much water from the system as possible and do some serious and much needed digging.

This post was edited by NHEngineer on 11/06/2023 at 08:15 am.


JD Seller has not been on here for years. Water doesn't generally separate out of UTF. If you have the older spec hydraulic oil it will in a few days. Does NH stand for New Holland or New Hampshire? If it is New Hampshire and you are near Chester I am a youthful 75 and have no problem crawling under. Although it has been nearly an hour.
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:29 11/06/23)
JD Seller has not been on here for years. Water doesn't generally separate out of UTF. If you have the older spec hydraulic oil it will in a few days. Does NH stand for New Holland or New Hampshire? If it is New Hampshire and you are near Chester I am a youthful 75 and have no problem crawling under. Although it has been nearly an hour.
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Thank you for you're quick response Mr. Showcrop.

NH is New Hampshire; Franklin to be exact.

UTF means [i:e6fa6fe2ba]Something[/i:e6fa6fe2ba] Transmission Fluid I guess. Is the "U" ultimate?

If you are telling me you would have no problem crawling under my monster back hoe, this coming Spring (if I'm still salient), I would gladly pay you for you time to help me purge as much water from the system as possible.

The water, it seems, got into the right brake actuator and so the pedal will bleed but, with the bleeder closed, it won't move. The left actuator will work only after several pumps (three or four) and I'm already intimidate by the size of this seven ton old girl so I just don't have the stones to operate it on a grade with questionable brakes and sluggish forward/reverse shuttle. I have visions of riding it down the hill, across the street and down into the Pemigewasset River. My backhoe experience is quite limited.
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