DOT Numbers

I got to thinking about a post here about DOT numbers and started looking at the info on the FMSCA website.If you are not a commercial carrier by their test you dont have to have a DOT number.On their test nothing was said about pulling a Hot Rod or pulling tractor.It did say that they could not possibly cover every states laws,but as far as Federal was concerned I did not see where that kind of stuff was any different than a RV pulling a boat or something.There was no class for it.Recreation is not commercial any where that I saw.

There is no telling what a cop will write a ticket for.It seems plainly obvious that a lot of their duty is to make money.If they can write a ticket,and get your money,they will.If you can you should fight them.

I didnt know they were messing with farmers and other people.Thats an every day thing for them to do is think up scams for commercial vehicles.

I bet if enough people got to making calls,maybe even getting a TV news crew to interview a politician or politicians who may be telling cops to write some tickets on a certain highway somewhere just might get them off the peoples back.Especially farmers because they are beat up enough and dont need this kind of stuff.Farmers and people who work for a living should not have to be a motor carrier to move their stuff.Cops will write any ticket that they think they can get away with.If they have to go to court all the time they might decide they dont want to write a ticket for that.Or if the politician behind it can be brought out in the light and everybody knows who to focus on,then you will probably find he is behind even more and worse stuff that he doesnt want light shed on,or she.Women are just as corrupt as any of them.

The FMSCA website is a good example of what commercial trucking is like.Look at the stuff they are trying to impose on trucking companies now.Page after page of stuff thats just a test,not even a law yet,but these crooks are looking for every way they can to find you not complying and then it will cost you if you get caught.Companys have lawyers on the payroll.Poor little guys can barely buy gas and according to some now they have to be motor carriers.

In a cops fantasy they can make everything illegal and not even tell you what the law is and fine you for it.I think if everybody fought that stuff and made them define their law before they could fine you would stop 99.9% of this crap

You cant hardly find a lawyer that will do anything,or even knows anything.Plea bargaining is not the answer when you want to win.I guess lawyer school teaches them to plea bargain.That has stuff in so much of a mess that its no wonder things are like they are.

All of them are buddies too.The lawyer gives some to the prosecuter and the judge and you plea bargain some deal that you will go for.You pay some but they give you something like probation and you dont get it on your record.

How about this,make the crooks define their law first.No weasel words,plain English.Cut lawyers pay to what most people make say 20 bucks an hour,and he wont get that unless he wins.Put the judge and prosecuter in prison for taking bribes and elect new ones.Then stop this plea bargain crap.Make them state the law.Then cut all of their fines to 5 dollars or something real low for anything thats not a moving violation.All of those pages and pages of crap test laws would be gone.Plus nobody is going to enforce all of that crap anyway.

Its been way too long since something for the people worked about government.If people dont stand up anything they do will be illegal and the cops,prosecuters,judges and lawyers,all being buddies will be the only ones not in prison.

Maybe plea bargaining might be an option,but not the main deal.Anything to get them to quit with their constant nit picking would be welcomed very much Im sure.Plus everybody would know finally what is or isnt legal.That also would stop thieving politiciains from getting reelected with revenue from ridiculous tickets.Also the politicians behind this stuff need to be on the news as much as possible as the better everybody knows which ones are bad,they wont be getting reelected all the time and making this stuff worse.

Amen to all of it. Sadly our entire country seems to be run by people that, for the most part, feel they can make up things as they go. For one example of something outside of the trucking industry, try taking an MSHA class sometime and actually asking questions. The book will say in black and white that something can be done but the instructor will tell you it can't. When asked why the discrepency you'll be told that most things are "at the discretion of the inspector". Basically if the inspector is in a good mood he might go easy on you but if he has had a bad day then he has every right to fine you for things the book says you can do just because he doesn't like you doing it. True the fine can be challanged but the time and expense to do so usually is less than the fine so it doesn't get done often enough to make a difference..... Heck to make matters worse often times the inspector doesn't even know what he is doing and asks/demands that something be done that is impossible to do without damaging a machine.....seen it happen. The operator refused and told him to do it himself and he would be responsible for any damages he caused, needless to say the inspector backed off when confronted like that.....From what I head with this new administration in Washington they are coming down even harder on the mines with larger fines, stricter poliies, etc. Most of the new stuff are things that are really not needed or are not really plausible without causing a huge expense to the mine. The main thing is all the new stuff will, in general, generate more chances of finding something wrong and allowing more fines to be levied. Personally if faced with the choice of talking to an inspecor or leaving, I'm going to load my tools on my truck and get the heck out of Dodge because I'm not placing my financial well being in the hands of someone that can make the rules as they go, regardless of what the rule book that I am bound to follow tells me to do.....

I know people in the construction business.I hear the inspectors get worse all the time.So unqualified they dont even know what they are doing.They can make it so hard on you that it will break you if you go to doing all the silly stuff they want.

What it is actually is taking idiots,who it might not even be their fault,but taking an idiot,then sending this idiot to some school,that might not even have anything to do with the job they have,and that"qualifies"this idiot to be an inspector.They wouldnt think of making somebody who did construction all their life an inspector,it has to be somebody dumb enough to work cheap,and has been to idiot school,and has an attitude that they know everything,then put this stuff out on the public.

These same type of people are way too high in the works of everything.They wouldnt be able to keep from starving to death if they had to work for a living,so what do they do with them?Make a suit out of them.Yeah thats a good idea!

Unless people stand up and fight back they keep getting worse and worse.Like the old saying,give them an inch and they will take a mile,well now they are taking a hundred miles past that inch.

Plus if they did something else like whatever people like that do,design wallpaper,or paint pictures of naked women,or something else,they might be good at it.The way things are now,with the bad economy,they probably ask them if they went to engineering school and maybe they did but they flunked it,or cheated their way through,and are totally the worst person for the job they are on,but they knew somebody,or they worked cheap enough,or they just plain had idiots that didnt know what they were doing that hired them.Or a certain color of skin that is chosen over other colors.Its all stupid,but its so bad and there are just as much of this goes on in everything people do to make a living.Its bad,and getting worse daily.

Trucker - I have to comment.

I worked 33 1/2 years as a road construction inspecter/stake driver/layout man or whatever you want to call me. My job was really pretty simple: The contractors bid competitively on a set of plans and specifications, and I was there to see that the bid winner built it to the plans and specifications that he bid on. Nothing more, but nothing less. I demanded nothing that was not required of him. I paid him every nickel that he was entitled to, but not a nickel more. I did my very best to see that he made money, but made him make it honestly. If I saw he was about to shoot himself in the foot, I tried to steer him away from losing money un-necessarily.

I had a reputation for being honest but demanding that it be done right. I also made sure that he was paid for any extra work that wasn't on the plans, but was unforseen and necessary to complete the project. A man deserves to be paid fully for his labor, but not a nickel more.

Was I perfect? Absolutely NOT! I could write a book on the mistakes I have made. But I made sure the contractor didn't bear the cost of my mistakes. I didn't try to hide them, and the people I worked for trusted me and stood behind me. The longer I worked, the fewer mistakes I made, just like any other job.

I know there are inspecters like you describe. I fought for 33 years against the reputation those type of people established. Every new contractor that I worked with expected me to be an idiot, and I had to prove them wrong.

Believe it or not, there ARE honest contractors, but the temptation to cut corners under pressure will work on even the honest ones. You can't fault a man for trying to make money, but it was my job, as inspecter, to help keep him honest.

I know that the people that you know in the construction business have met some knucklehead inspecters. We all have met them. But some of us actually take pride in trying to do the job correctly.

And as far as starving to death - I've been retired now for ten years, and I still get several job offers every year, from contractors that I've worked with in the past. One contractor has a standing offer of a job any time I want it. To tell you the truth - I'm scared of today's traffic. I feel that I've used up all my "near miss" chances.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you - I enjoy your posts, even if I don't always agree with you. But I object to the broad description of all inspecters being idiots, just as you would object to all truckers/welders/mechanics being idiots.

Respectively,
Paul

OSHA is pretty much the same way. They don't have clear cut rules in many cases, you have to make "interpretations".

If your interpretation doesn't happen to match up with the inspector's, you're liable to be cited.

While thats true,all inspectors cant be idiots,I'll tell you a little of the story behind this one.I moved a track hoe for this contractor and saw what he had to deal with.It was a rough piece of property.Later when the job was finished I moved it again and saw that the contractor had done an excellent job.It took him about 2 weeks and it looked like a landscaped property and all he did was build an access road,just dirt work,no gravel.Back in the 1970s I worked for him and we did the same thing,but you could plainly see he did a good job.Back in the 1970s he might have cut corners when he was new at it,and surely would not have done much more than he had to,this work a few years ago was great.This idiot inspector wanted him to sweep some dirt with a shop broom.Now Im not a engineer or anything and have not worked in construction all of my life,but when you see quality work,hey no contractor is going to mind touching some of it up,if its necessary,but you dont try to exert your authority by trying to get him to be a servant.Its lucky that inspector isnt under that street now.The contractor ran him off the site and from what I could tell there was no reason for the inspector to even try that,just that he thought he could get away with it.

While what I said was covering a lot of ground,I bet 33 years ago you never pulled something like that,and if you did you would have probably been knocked out laying on the ground.Its not that people are Just a little out of the ordinary,maybe just learning the ropes.Its that,but these people coming up now think they are better than working people.Because they have authority makes them better and working people are just servants.
In the past nobody would put up with it.Now people will just lick their boots,and go broke,that is until this guy tried to pull that stuff on the wrong contractor.

Watch that show Swamp Loggers if you can.It shows a guy who is loosing his life savings because of the price of fuel.Hey ,he needs to raise his price for hauling,but do you think the people who buy the stuff will raise the price?Then they send him to a place nobody will work,and offer him a couple dollars a ton more?The whole industry has lost lots of people who just quit rather than put up with this stuff.

When fuel got so high I parked my truck,then sold it.I could get a fuel surcharge on outbound loads,and not on backhauls.I told my boss it was either fuel surcharge or I was not running the truck.Parked it for a while and tried it again.Surcharge on outbound,very little on backhauls.Well it was a surcharge,but not enough.I think they just raised the rate as much as they could and tried to call the extra a surcharge.40 dollars on a 1000 mile run wont buy much 3 dollar fuel.

Yeah there have to be some good guys out there,but there are a lot less of them now than 33 years ago and the population is higher.Good guys are on the near extinct side,cheap working idiots are everywhere and in every industry.

If everybody is seeing the same sort of problem in their business,a whole side of the industry that expects workers to be servants and go broke trying to work for a living,then yeah,its telling you that there are way more idiots than necessary.By you trying to say its not that way,then you are obviously not really looking at whats going on.Your answer may have been logical in the past,but now there is a lot of unbalance in the country from one side getting all the money and the workers loosing.Even the State is in on it with ridiculous regulations,which is what started this whole story.Its been like this ever since I started working in 1973.So when does the working side get anywhere?Also not trying to pick a fight with you either,but what makes you so special that you can decide whether a contractor makes money or not?Yeah some of your responsibility is probably grading the contractor,but that ought to be it.Some days are good,some days are bad for everybody.Ive seen lots of people have one screw up and loose everything.Im sure it might not mean so much to you being on the other side.Yeah life is not fair,but now its like its only going to get worse.Thats what its going to do until people stand up to that side of industry.You were probably a good guy.Nobody has trouble if people work together.You start treating one side better than the other and its not long before you better get a shovel if you want anything done.

I dont know how I could write this any clearer.Its obvious what has happened.Its so bad there almost is nothing left of the country we had 33 years ago.I dont know if anything is going to change except get worse is what worries me.I hope younger people quit putting up with this stuff and stand up to them.The mentality that there is nothing the working people can do is what caused this.All of us should go on strike and then what are your side people going to do?You can go to work,but if there are no contractors working they arent going to pay you very long and decide they dont need you.Then when work starts back up they will look for cheaper help.Just like every other industry.

The biggest problem with OHSA inspectors here, is that they give advance notice when they're coming to a shop to inspect it, even if they received an annonymous tip about unsafe working conditions. I worked in one shop where the boss handed out safety glasses to everyone that didn't already have them, for when the inspector came. I worked in another shop that if a good inspector would have known what he was looking for, would have shut it down for numerous serious safety violations. Ie/ Having a 30 ft. three phase power cord running across the shop floor to a welder with only marr connectors and some electrical tape joining it to a welder. Not using certified lifting chains with a proper rating for a 5 ton overhead crane. They actually had a chain break and hit someone in the face. almost taking their eye out. Not having a proper plate clamp for lifting heavy steel plates. They had a home made thing that actually broke and just had a first year welder MIG it back together. Having a whole bunch of oil pails and other flammables in the corner of a fabrication shop. They had a woman who was supposed to be the safety supervisor of the shop but never actually went into the shop or had any idea about the dangers in a welding and fabrication shop. That shop was a total joke and dangerous place to work if you weren't always watching what everyone was doing. Lots of close calls but the OHSA inspector missed the most serious violations. Dave

Wages for working folks in this country have been falling since 1973. Until that turns around, it is just gonna get worse for a lot of folks.

Farmers are doing commerial work, but have been given a pass by most states over the years, typically smaller trucks used seasonally in good weather in daylight for short hauls - not much trouble.....

As farms get bigger, and semis become more popular, and the roll of govt keeps getting bigger, those days are ending. The states are all broke, collecting the inspection fees & fines is good money.

Food is going to cost more, roads won't be much safer, if any.

Welcome ot America.

Fedral rules are poised to kick in on anything weighting over 17,000, including tractors, gravity boxes, etc.

--->Paul

Trucker - a couple more comments - my dad used to say "Give a man a little authority and he'll show you how much class he has". Anybody who tries to make a contractor do anything without having the backing of the contract and specifications, has no leg to stand on.

Another thought - there's nothing special about me, to the point that I could determine whether a contractor made money or went broke. All the contractors that I dealt with had to pre-qualify for the work before they were allowed to submit a bid. The pre-qualification process was done by others, and was only to determine if said contractor was fit for the duration of the project. I did no "grading" of anyone. Every item of work had a pay unit. For instance, when he completed a run of storm sewer, I measured it and paid him for the length completed times the bid price per foot of that particular size of pipe. The bid price is established by the contractor (the low bidder). Nothing complicated about it. The better foremen would take their own measurements and compare theirs with mine every day, to avoid any mixups. Every contract had working days allotted to complete the project, and if work was added, additional working days were also added.

So there was nothing "special" about me. I came home as muddy as every other man on the job.

Also - there's no such thing as "being on the other side". A good inspecter should expect to have to argue with a good contractor's foreman, and vice versa. It's their respective jobs to do so. But in the end - it's the contract and specifications that determine the outcome of the argument. It's in everyone's best interest to have the proper completion of the contract as their main priority.

Again, I'm not picking a fight with you, but I have come to the thought that you have worked with a different type of contract and contractor than I have.

Hope I haven't bored you to death.
I enjoyed the discussion.
Paul

Another of Truckers "off the meds" rants. What a dipstick. Farmers and anyone else involved in a commercial enterprise has been covered under under the FMCSA rules for decades. The difference is the exemptions have become more stringent due to rules changes and people pushing the limits so that an interpretation or rule change had to be made. And some states have adopted the FMSCA regs as State law. But in Truckers fantasy world where everyone but HIM is an idiot it's all a plot to do in the little guy, the hero of the people, TRUCKER 40! Hero of the People, Idol of American Youth and Arbiter of Justice As He Sees fit.

The best thing most people could do is ignore this idiot and his drug induced rambling.

Just like always you come at me like I dont know anything.Just look at the government website.All the stuff they are trying to do.Its been like this for a long time and getting worse and they are after money every way,and they get ifrom people who have the least ability to pay it.Now what about this makes you right and me wrong?You would have been better off not to respond than to respond like you do.Its overbearing,non informative,and I will argue with you.

If you had offered something to the conversation I wouldnt say anything.If you want to argue with me go for it!

I dont quite get what kind of inspector you were.I was just a laborer and I didnt get into bidding or anything,but I know how things were by being there as it was going on.

The inspector I was referring to was a city inspector.Also of the ones I remember seeing they were good guys in the 1970s.This new bunch is just what you said about authority.They can ruin a job for a contractor.The old ones could too,but as long as everybody kind of worked together things went smoothly.

I think I understand that you were a company inspector.It doesnt matter though Im sure things are different in different places.There are City inspectors,State inspectors,and other stuff.I dont know a lot about it since I dont do it.I just know what happened that time,but Ive heard other stories too.Some is EPA regulations and how they are interpreted.

I know you arent trying to pick a fight.I enjoyed the discussion as well.

What I was referring about being on the other side was that I thought you were a state or city inspector at first.I meant that the regulation side is putting the working side out of business because they dont have a clue what the working side is like,and just consider working people servants.It may be different where you are,but I tried to give some other examples in other industries where the same type of thing is ruining peoples livelyhoods.

I know it get kind of boring without a lively discussion now and then.Im glad you enjoyed it!

Awww, poor Trucker. Someone calls him on being wrong and he becomes a victim. Tell you what, instead of putting OPINION (incorrect at that) out there as law, why not tick with facts? It's not all a plot to get the little guy, nnalert are just as slimy as nnalert and a Commercial Motor Vehicle is a CMV no matter who drives it or what you think the law should be.