I am hearing that you can get almost up to 17 volts out of a standard 6 volt generator if you adjust the voltage relay inside the voltage regulator,....I want to use my standard 6 volt generator from my farmall C and adjust the voltage regulator to 12 to 13 volts and then be able to use a 12 volt battery...and 12 coil and 12 volt bulbs....starter won"t be a problem....will the 12 volt regulators they sell at Tractor Supply have the adjustable relay in it to do this?..if not does anyone know where I can get one that will work ?
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- Thread starter marco54
- Start date
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
With enough rpm and full fielding the generator. It would likely make 48volts.
Yes, but..........
One problem that I see with such is that field coils will be running at higher than design currents & voltage, thus heat. I would expect a short life. If you took a 6v generator to as good generator shop & asked to have it converted to 12v, they would replace the field coils. Some will go as far as replacing field coils and armature.
One problem that I see with such is that field coils will be running at higher than design currents & voltage, thus heat. I would expect a short life. If you took a 6v generator to as good generator shop & asked to have it converted to 12v, they would replace the field coils. Some will go as far as replacing field coils and armature.
It don't cost much to convert a 6 to a 12, UNLESS you have a Autolite (??) unit.. I believe my Massey picker has autolite generator, and I was told by my repair man that the parts to convert to a 12v for this unit are hard to find, and pricey (like $225 was the quote, parts and labor) so I left it 6 volts.. Good enough for what I'll do with it. I was told that the Delco was less than half that to convert.
Brad
Brad
I tried a 12 volt cutout on a 6 volt adjustable third brush generator on 9n ford. I was surprised that it charged a little too much even with the brush backed all the off. Apparently, there is too much current in the 6 volt rated field windings. I think some resistance could be put in series with the field winding to make it work better. The resistance would be mandatory on none adjustable brush generators. I would try the same value resistor as what the winding resistance measures.
t least, if a non-adj brush gen with a regulator, the field current would be modulated by the regulator, whereas the 3rd brush type field current adj is limited by available brush movement range. Making me tend toward believing that added series resistance in such field circuit may be more necessary in the 3 brush than the regulated 2 brush.(quoted from post at 10:58:56 05/01/10) I tried a 12 volt cutout on a 6 volt adjustable third brush generator on 9n ford. I was surprised that it charged a little too much even with the brush backed all the off. Apparently, there is too much current in the 6 volt rated field windings. I think some resistance could be put in series with the field winding to make it work better. The resistance would be mandatory on none adjustable brush generators. I would try the same value resistor as what the winding resistance measures.
A 12 volt regulator has a low value resistor across the points for the field. So as the points vibrate, the field current would vary between too high (though resistor) and way too high(direct)when used on a low resistance 6 volt winding. There needs to be a series resistance to shift the output lower. But then I have never tried it, am only guessing what would happen.
I have used a 6 volt genny to charge a 12 volt battery and it worked simply by changing to a 12 volt VoltGE REGULATOR. It lasted a few years and was still working when I got rid of it
Heres the deal, a genny doesnt necessarily know its output voltage, its increased EITHER by turning it faster and/or pumping more current through its Field coils.
NOW before anyone has a calf let me say as an engineer IM NOT SAYING THIS IS CORRECT OR ENGINEERIGN PROPER, IM ONLYYYYYYYYYYY SAYING IT CAN WORK AND WORKED FOR ME AND CAN WORK IN THEORY
HOWEVER DO NOT expect it to charge at any very high current rate and theres an obvious problem in that if you pass more current through the field windings then they were designed to handle, they could overheat and go bad
SOOOOOOOOOOO yes it can work
It may not charge at a high enough rate
Its possible the field coils could overheat
But Ive done it and it worked
Now armed with this you can give it a try or do the engineering correct thinG and get a 12 volt genny and VR ITS YOUR CALL
John T
Heres the deal, a genny doesnt necessarily know its output voltage, its increased EITHER by turning it faster and/or pumping more current through its Field coils.
NOW before anyone has a calf let me say as an engineer IM NOT SAYING THIS IS CORRECT OR ENGINEERIGN PROPER, IM ONLYYYYYYYYYYY SAYING IT CAN WORK AND WORKED FOR ME AND CAN WORK IN THEORY
HOWEVER DO NOT expect it to charge at any very high current rate and theres an obvious problem in that if you pass more current through the field windings then they were designed to handle, they could overheat and go bad
SOOOOOOOOOOO yes it can work
It may not charge at a high enough rate
Its possible the field coils could overheat
But Ive done it and it worked
Now armed with this you can give it a try or do the engineering correct thinG and get a 12 volt genny and VR ITS YOUR CALL
John T
I have used a 6 volt genny to charge a 12 volt battery and it worked simply by changing to a 12 volt VoltGE REGULATOR. It lasted a few years and was still working when I got rid of it
Heres the deal, a genny doesnt necessarily know its output voltage, its increased EITHER by turning it faster and/or pumping more current through its Field coils.
NOW before anyone has a calf let me say as an engineer IM NOT SAYING THIS IS CORRECT OR ENGINEERIGN PROPER, IM ONLYYYYYYYYYYY SAYING IT CAN WORK AND WORKED FOR ME AND CAN WORK IN THEORY
HOWEVER DO NOT expect it to charge at any very high current rate and theres an obvious problem in that if you pass more current through the field windings then they were designed to handle, they could overheat and go bad
SOOOOOOOOOOO yes it can work
It may not charge at a high enough rate
Its possible the field coils could overheat
But Ive done it and it worked
Now armed with this you can give it a try or do the engineering correct thinG and get a 12 volt genny and VR ITS YOUR CALL
John T
Heres the deal, a genny doesnt necessarily know its output voltage, its increased EITHER by turning it faster and/or pumping more current through its Field coils.
NOW before anyone has a calf let me say as an engineer IM NOT SAYING THIS IS CORRECT OR ENGINEERIGN PROPER, IM ONLYYYYYYYYYYY SAYING IT CAN WORK AND WORKED FOR ME AND CAN WORK IN THEORY
HOWEVER DO NOT expect it to charge at any very high current rate and theres an obvious problem in that if you pass more current through the field windings then they were designed to handle, they could overheat and go bad
SOOOOOOOOOOO yes it can work
It may not charge at a high enough rate
Its possible the field coils could overheat
But Ive done it and it worked
Now armed with this you can give it a try or do the engineering correct thinG and get a 12 volt genny and VR ITS YOUR CALL
John T
teddy52food
Well-known Member
It will work best with just a cutout. The 12 volt regulators field circuit points won't last long because of the extra juice going through them. The 6 volt gen will only put out half the amps when charging 12.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Marco 54 Over 30 years ago an older mechanic friend of mine adjusted the generator on my WD45 to put out 12 volts. I put a 12 volt battery and coil on the tractor and have run it since. I think he loosened a couple of screws and moved the brushes. I was going to put a resistor in the line for the points, but he told me to save my money and run it as he had set it up. I have done nothing else to it and it still runs fine.
The output voltage of a gen/Alt is determined by the input field voltage.
Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm. You can never exceed the wattage rating while continuous running. So if you raise the voltage output then you have to derate the current output by the same precentage.
The number of poles determines the frequency output. 4 poles turns at 1800rpm and 2poles turns at 3600rpm for 60cyles/sec
T_Bone
Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm. You can never exceed the wattage rating while continuous running. So if you raise the voltage output then you have to derate the current output by the same precentage.
The number of poles determines the frequency output. 4 poles turns at 1800rpm and 2poles turns at 3600rpm for 60cyles/sec
T_Bone
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Well-known Member
My experience has been a 6v generator with a 12v regulator doesn't work well long term. Like some of the others have said the points burn up. I have 2 tractors (Oliver 60 & CA Allis) that were 6v and I converted them to 12v by finding actual 12v generators and matching regulators.
Brian Jasper co. Ia
Well-known Member
I'll add that the generator on my CA came from a D17 and the Oliver's came from a 770. They look original and have enough capacity to run a few more lights, and there was no fabrication beyond wiring them. Alternators may be more trouble free, but they just don't look right IMHO.
200w/6v=200amps(quoted from post at 14:39:23 05/01/10) The output voltage of a gen/Alt is determined by the input field voltage.
Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm. You can never exceed the wattage rating while continuous running. So if you raise the voltage output then you have to derate the current output by the same precentage.
The number of poles determines the frequency output. 4 poles turns at 1800rpm and 2poles turns at 3600rpm for 60cyles/sec
T_Bone
1200w/12v=100Amps
I haven't a clue where you got the idea that most automotive generators and alternators are good for 100 & 200amps, but where ever you got it, you need to trash it. Yes, you can find some newer alternators with that kind of capacity, but not a snowballs chance in Hades on that 200a, 6v generator!
(quoted from post at 20:16:01 05/01/10)200w/6v=200amps(quoted from post at 14:39:23 05/01/10) The output voltage of a gen/Alt is determined by the input field voltage.
Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm. You can never exceed the wattage rating while continuous running. So if you raise the voltage output then you have to derate the current output by the same precentage.
The number of poles determines the frequency output. 4 poles turns at 1800rpm and 2poles turns at 3600rpm for 60cyles/sec
T_Bone
1200w/12v=100Amps
I haven't a clue where you got the idea that most automotive generators and alternators are good for 100 & 200amps, but where ever you got it, you need to trash it. Yes, you can find some newer alternators with that kind of capacity, but not a snowballs chance in Hades on that 200a, 6v generator!
Hi Jmor,
I would think approx 98% of the automotive is being charged via alternators for 12v systems. I know that some of the newer 12v generators also will produce to those spec's, so the above is a true statement.
The other 2% would cover your misfigured 6v as well we all know 6v generators are lucky to be rated at 65a or so.
Don't think I've ever read a 6v generator wattage spec so I can't quote those.
T_Bone
(quoted from post at 01:10:47 05/02/10)(quoted from post at 20:16:01 05/01/10)200w/6v=200amps(quoted from post at 14:39:23 05/01/10) The output voltage of a gen/Alt is determined by the input field voltage.
Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm. You can never exceed the wattage rating while continuous running. So if you raise the voltage output then you have to derate the current output by the same precentage.
The number of poles determines the frequency output. 4 poles turns at 1800rpm and 2poles turns at 3600rpm for 60cyles/sec
T_Bone
1200w/12v=100Amps
I haven't a clue where you got the idea that most automotive generators and alternators are good for 100 & 200amps, but where ever you got it, you need to trash it. Yes, you can find some newer alternators with that kind of capacity, but not a snowballs chance in Hades on that 200a, 6v generator!
Hi Jmor,
I would think approx 98% of the automotive is being charged via alternators for 12v systems. I know that some of the newer 12v generators also will produce to those spec's, so the above is a true statement.
The other 2% would cover your misfigured 6v as well we all know 6v generators are lucky to be rated at 65a or so.
Don't think I've ever read a 6v generator wattage spec so I can't quote those.
T_Bone
"Most automotive type gen/alt are rated at 1200w @ 2000rpm."
Looks like you already did quote those.
Peruse a pile of automotive manuals (pre-alternator years) and you will find NO 65a generators. Normal is/was 25 to 35a and occasionally a firetruck or ambulance at 50a or a fully loaded Caddy. Old 6v cars/trucks more like 20a and the old 6v tractors that this thread is about generally were 11 to 20amps. (6v X 11a=66w) (6v X 20a=120w)
But not to worry, whats a factor of 10 among friends? :wink:
Actually most stuff you buy today is in the 65-100 amp range on automotive stuff. Heavy trucks push better than 150 amp and fire service can go over 200 amp IIRC...
All of my tractors today have 65 amp Delco's on them... so I'd assume that's a pretty common thing in the automotive world.
Rod
All of my tractors today have 65 amp Delco's on them... so I'd assume that's a pretty common thing in the automotive world.
Rod
ou are talking 12v alternators.........not 6v generators.(quoted from post at 12:47:21 05/02/10) Actually most stuff you buy today is in the 65-100 amp range on automotive stuff. Heavy trucks push better than 150 amp and fire service can go over 200 amp IIRC...
All of my tractors today have 65 amp Delco's on them... so I'd assume that's a pretty common thing in the automotive world.
Rod
es, which is what I said. T-bone might have been thinking alternators, but he specified "gen/alt" & then tried to defend an un-defensible position. It really matters not, except that the thread had to do with using a 6v gen to charge 12v batteries and readers need to know that they shouldn't expect 1200w or 100-200amps. I thought his post muddied the water on that. Kinda wish I hadn't even read it, now.(quoted from post at 16:42:02 05/02/10) Yes... and I think that's what T-bone was talking about too....
If you want to talk 6V generators, most systems as installed in the day were pushing more like 20-30 amps at most.
Rod
guess we are going to beat this thing forever. I'm sure YT appreciates the traffic & I guess that the memories or guesses of T-Bone will keep coming until he opens a book. Get a MOTOR'S manual and look at ALL GENERATORS listed for ALL of the cars from 1932 to 1958 and you will find in black & white print that ALL those generators (6v) run in the range from 25 amps (150 watts) up to rare high-end 50amps (300 watts), most top out in the 40a range or 250watts, so be "shocked", my friend. No "at least 500watt'ers in the bunch!(quoted from post at 17:35:42 05/02/10) Yep, I'm talking about mfg designed current rating, not run amps.
I would be shocked to find any automotive type generator not designed at least 500w for charging applications.
T_Bone
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