small eng. lawsuit

CWL · Apr 23, 2010

I got to thinking about this yesterday afternoon. I got the card in the mail a while back about the class action lawsuit for small gas powered engines manufacturers overstating the horsepower of their engines.

My thought was "Who is surprised that the power rating is overstated???".

I have a 23HP 2 cyl. Briggs in my riding mower. It seems to be a good motor, but there's no way that it's going to put out 23HP for long if at all. Same thing with my push mower rated at 5HP. Not to mention the fact that those numbers are "PEAK HP" derived in a laboratory setting.

Kruse · Apr 23, 2010

The lawyers suing the small engine manufacturers are surprised. They are surprised that they didn't think of suing them sooner.

Casey in Ky · Apr 23, 2010

You guys don't understand. This is a good thing. Maybe now we can get these p*ss poor American engine manufacturers out of business so we can all buy these new, highly techinical, liqiud combustible engines from China. You know, cutting edge technology at it's best.

MSJ from MN · Apr 23, 2010

It was brought about from lawyer's that got tired of chasing ambulances.

Curt Cooke · Apr 23, 2010

I don't know about you all, but I can't bear to watch the Sam Bernstein ads. Aside from the obvious it's exactly what's wrong with America in so many ways today. Too many lawyers and too many frivolous law suits.

Coloken · Apr 23, 2010

How about those "5 HP" air compressors that operate on 110 volt 15 amp circuit????
Or my "20 watt" computer speaker system that has a 5 watt PS?

Hotflashjr · Apr 23, 2010

I got the card as well. It went right into the stove that evening to get the fire started. Let's take Briggs, JD, and all the other guys, sue them, so we can them give them a bail out like GM. What will each of us get, a $10 check??

Anonymous-0 · Apr 23, 2010

I haven't decided yet what to do with my card. I am against frivolous lawsuits. I am also against manufacturers misrepresenting their product, ie. price is usually controlled by HP rating. They made more money because of the misrepresentation, do I want to put them out of business??NO I am still stuck on "undecided" gobble

Jim SC · Apr 23, 2010

I have a different opinon than most of you. My grandson was pulling his other grandfathers mower when he had an accident. His grandpop told my son (a state trooper who earns peanuts) he had to replace the mower and trailer. Son bought (financed) a cub cadet and trailer with stiff payments. Now he gets letter saying he should get a $75 dollar check. This doesn't even make one payment, but it helps.

I know this is backwards reasoning, but it sure helps him.

JDemaris · Apr 23, 2010

I am not surprised. But the figures have been very deceptive and confusing. Not everyone knows how to figure out what they are buying.

Nebraska Tests were created to weed out this sort of nonsense with farm tractors, and its worked very well since 1920. The tests put many liars out of business.

US autos also had to go through a big change around 1973. Went from gross to SAE net horsepower.

I'd rather see something along the same line with power equipment, instead of lawyers and legislators tring to "fix" things.

I don't see where anything has improved. Now, many companies post the torque numbers instead horsepower. I suspect most consumers have a hard time looking at a new lawn mower with a torque-number on it, and trying to compare with a 3.5 horse mower they had in the 1960s.

I still go by engine size, which is the best figure to compare. But, I still a "cubic inch" sort of person and get tired of all the metric figures. It would be fine if we stuck to one or the other, but we don't.

ericlb · Apr 23, 2010

i threw mine out even if won each party would get something like 20 bucks, at most, just another lawyer looking to make money off b/s, the thing to remember is even if the hp is over rated, it doesnt mater, because what any small engine doesnt have much of is touque, and its tourque that does the work, to give a example, a lawn tractor from the box store advertises it has 26 hp, it may be king of the suburban saturday morning lawn war, however a 8N ford also advertises 26 hp, now if the 2 tractors were to be hooked drawbar to drawbar which one do you think is going to win that contest? the 8n wouldnt even know the other tractor was hooked to it, its torque , the ability to apply a load to any engine and keep it running, also in the contest would be weight since the n weighs around 8 times what the lawn tractor does , so to me if the thing will mow the lawn, it doesnt mater what its rated at, its a lawn mower, not a farm tractor, so i judt dont see the point in the lawsuite other than to make a rich lawyer even richer

centralilbaler · Apr 23, 2010

I know what you mean about the power ratings, When i first got my 27 hp mower, the first comment i made to my wife was "that old 20hp mower had more power"

Anonymous-0 · Apr 23, 2010

Average is $75 for lawn tractors, $35 for push mowers. They do pay. Monies already collected from manufacturers. You don't claim yours and it probably will go to lawyers, ect. Better in my pocket than some fat cat ambulance chaser.

tjdub · Apr 23, 2010

> My thought was "Who is surprised that the power rating is overstated???".

Hehe. Yeah, my reaction was similar. I said "What they just realized now that the missing HP is making their mower not cut grass properly?"

My wife explained that what spurred the lawsuit is that the manufacturers were essentially putting the exact same motor in the exact same tractor and charging a premium for decals. Which seems like a valid reason to get a $75 check, in my opinion.

IOWA NORTHEAST · Apr 23, 2010

I'm also on the fence, I hate attorneys for the most part. We all assume they are very smart, especialy when they are promoted to judge.

On the other hand, maybe it would help get things in order. One of my rants is gas milage posted on a windshield.

When you buy oranges in the orange net bags, DECEPTION, that clear wrap around the meat in the store has a red tint to it as well as the green produce having a green tint.

In my opinion this all needs to be stoped, and perhaps this might be a stepping stone. We have a hankering to straighten out every other country on the face of the earth, but we are just as bad.

JDemaris · Apr 23, 2010

It was already tentatively settled, out-of-court. $35 per lawnmower and $75 per rider - directly to the consumer. That money paid out will just be added to later purchase-prices anyway. I.e. everybody will pay for it if they every buy new again.

At to torque being king? Not in all cases.

Your mention of the 26 horse 8N Ford compared to a garden tractor rated at 26 horse? And pulling each other? Weight, tractor, and gearing are the big factors. The garden tractor might weigh 700 lbs. and the Ford 8N weighs close to 3000 lbs. Huge difference in weight and traction. Torque is hardly a factor in that comparison.

If you took two 8N Fords, and put that garden tractor engine in one of them? If they had Sherman step-down transmissions so the 1/2 size garden tractor engine could keep the wheels turning - they probably still would be an equal match- chained back to back, as long as both engines could keep turning.

A 26 horse garden tractor engine is rated at 3600 RPM. Half the cubic inch size of the 8N engine, but firing almost twice as much. The Ford 8N engine is rated at 2000 RPM.

I don't see farm power numbers not equalling lawn and garden numbers being the big issue. They are "apples to oranges" comparisons. Garden tractor engines are often built to do higher RPM work then a Ford 8N ever was.

Anonymous-0 · Apr 23, 2010

I think compressors are way more misleading than the small engines. Dave

Dean · Apr 23, 2010

Agreed.

The US has about 10 times as many lawyers as other industrialized countries, and many (most?) of these are creating business any way that they can.

Frivolous lawsuits could be eliminated overnight with the stroke of a pen. Simply prohibit contincency fees and change to a "looser pays" system where the loosing side in a civil suit pays the legal fees of the winning side. The rest of the industrialized world did this many decades ago.

Viola! No frivolous lawsuits.

Of course, this will never happen in the US so long as the nnalert remain in the pockets of the trial lawyers.

Dean, Esq.

Nancy Howell · Apr 23, 2010

Flourescent lights come in a "green" tint and a "red" tint. The green ones are used in the produce sections and the reds in the meat sections.

Used to work in a grocery store many moons ago and knew the butcher. They also put dyes in the meat to make it redder. Lots of "deception" in grocery products.

Dave in GA · Apr 23, 2010

I guess I should trade in my "36 Farmall F-20 (20hp) and upgrade to a lawn tractor with a 23hp Briggs. Gee, I wonder how to hook up the 5" rotary cutter and the 2/16 plow on the back of that Briggs machine. Does the 23hp Briggs machine have a belt pulley?

IOWA NORTHEAST · Apr 23, 2010

I was unaware of that, thanks

ChrisinMO · Apr 23, 2010

I don't like being tied into spurious class-action lawsuits against my will. I once got a gift certificate from Sears as a settlement for some sort of class action suit. I mailed it back to them telling them I hadn't been harmed in any way and didn't want or need the gift certificate to 'make me whole'.

That being said, I am often amused at the horsepower claims made on harry homeowner equipment. All I can say is so what? It's still going to cost an arm and a leg to purchase and operate that piece of equipment and it still won't last more than ten years, if even that long. If I need the tool often enough, I look for some used industrial grade equipment. If the need is more infrequent, I just rent it. Or sometimes I use my noodle and come up with a way of getting the same job done without needing a machine. More than half of the lawn mowing around our place is done by animals. Sure they don't graze really evenly, but we don't have or desire to have a 'showplace'.

That being said, I am definitely in the market to replace our mower with a little IH Cub or an Allis B or G with something like a Woods mower to do the close to the house mowing. Some people don't appreciate the aesthetic qualities of having a nice cowpie right outside the front door! LOL!

Christopher

dhermesc · Apr 23, 2010

And the lawyer who doesn't even own a lawnmower got 10 million.

ericlb · Apr 23, 2010

the problem is still the same torque does the work, lets look at it another way, if you took a 26 hp lawn mower and ran it thru heavy grass until the engine stalled, then took the very same cutting deck, geared it to spin the blades at the same rpm the lawn mower did and hooked it to a 26hp tractor, then ran it right next to the cut the lawn mower made the 26 hp tractor would not stall, at the same point, if it stalled at all, if the lawn mower could be made to produce more torque thru a heavy flywheel or thru redesign it would do much more work than it does the way it is now, thats why something like a farmall cub rated at what 9 or 10 hp equipped with a belly mower can cut rings around a 26 hp box store lawnmower all day , in the same grass

cadet trooper · Apr 23, 2010

The law was that no one under either 16 or 18 years old can't remember is to operate a tactor over 20hp for commercial use so AC advertised their 720 at 19.5 even though the Onan was well over that it was the law. My two cents for a fact.

JDemaris · Apr 23, 2010

In the scenario you suggested with an 8N chained to a garden tractor in a dead-pull, it is the weight and traction that lets the 8N prevail and outpull. Not torque.

Is torque important for many types of work? Yes, off course. A typical garden tractor rated at 26 horse @ 3600 RPM has 1/2 the torque as the 8N engine at 1600 RPM.

That being said, stick an 8N engine in the garden tractor, and stick the garden tractor engine into the 8N. If geared right, the 8N with the lawn mower engine will win in a dead pull. Again, due to the weight and traction.

In your description of using a 9 horse rated Cub to run the same mower the 26 horse garden tractor uses? Well yeah, they are equal sized engines, both around 60 cubic inches. The difference is, the garden tractor engine will outwork the Cub engine since it's capable of making many more internal explosions, and more horsepower. The Cub can only make around 9-10 horse on the belt and PTO. The garden tractor engine rated at Net 26 horse can probably make 16-18 on a PTO if geared correctly.

I'm not arguing the usefulness of torque. I'm arguing that torque does not allow one tractor to outpull another. It CAN enable one to pull faster with a given load.

Billy Shafer · Apr 23, 2010

Overstating H/P has been around for years. I can show you some large generators that wont even come close to their rating.

shaun wallace · Apr 23, 2010

How do they i/e lawyer know who bought what when. I have 2 20inch push mowers with 3.5 hp Briggs that are pushing 10 years old. They still cut my grass just fine. Sharpen blades, change sparkplug,oil every year.

ericlb · Apr 23, 2010

i see what your saying too i probably used the wrong senario with the n, what i was trying to show was hp rating vs the amount of work that hp can do varies widely depending on what kind of engine is making the hp, the older lawn mowers got by with 8 and 10 and 12 hp rated engines, and did the same work,something must have been different about those, and i think when they first produced the cub cadet [ the yellow and white ones back in the '60's some actually had small 4 cylinder engines in them,

small eng. lawsuit

Member

Kruse

Guest

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Member

Member

Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Well-known Member

Similar threads