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OT: Manual Transmissions Dropped from New Pickups?

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Neil Powell

Member
If I am understanding their websites correctly, you can"t get a manual transmission in a new Ford or Chevy pickup?! Dodge apparently offers one only with the Cummins.

I always joked that this day would come, but it"s a little strange that it"s actually here.
 
It's simple business sense.

Slushboxes put the whole powertrain under complete control of the PCM and keep Bubba from tearing out the clutch under warranty,
 
Chevy has been auto only on the pickups for at least a couple years. The others have now also gone that route ?
I have read that pickups are ordered with auto trans 95% of the time. It may not pay to offer the option for only 5% or less of buyers.

Seems strange, but considering the typical American driver, I wonder how many can even drive a manual trans ?
 
I guess there will be no more new trucks in my lifetime. As I will not buy an Automatic. Had to order my current 2004 3/4 ton 4x4 Ram to get a stick.
 
That figures. In 1989 I wanted a Ford F150 with a 300 six and a 4 speed manual. At the time the standard F150 was a 302 with an automatic or a 5 speed aluminum Mazda transmission with no granny gear. I had to order one to get the Spicer T-18 4 speed. Still have the pickup and it has 75000 miles. Photo is from 2008.
a14078.jpg
 
Neil is correct. I went looking to maybe replace my 1999 F 350 last Thursday and order a new Ford. Well no 6 spd in Fords any more. So I went to Gm and they do not offer a 6 spd. So I went to Doges as the Cummings is good not so sure about the rest of it though.Yes we have a 6spd but know you can not get single rear wheel 3500 in a regular cab. Yes you can if you get the 4 door model which I do not need or want to pay for.But you can get a single rear wheel 3500 in a CC. So I do not know what I might do. I do want to find a Sterling dealer and see what they maybe can do for me. So for now I will put another 100k or so on the old ford till the rust gets the rest of it.It has 246 k on it now and mechanically sound but the bed is starting to rot the oil pan will need to be replaced soon and maybe a clutch soon. I can do all of that but the frame rails are stating to worry me some.That new PennDot winter brine makes C-C look like-candy.
 
I can't imagine having a stick. Can't understand why anyone would want one.
Cigarette and coffee in one hand, cell phone in the other, steering with your knee. How could you even shift a manual?
 
Funny thing is when I was on the farm, if you needed a vehicle you grabbed the one with gas in it (and put more in when you were done with it). Here at home when we had 4 drivers, My truck (89' F150 w/ 5 spd stick) rarely went anywhere without me.
 
That's the reason american auto makers have gone broke .They want to sell you what they want not what you want or need. I hate automatics. I have six vehicles,no automatics here. When I get too lazy to change gears, I'll hire a driver. I'd say they will change their minds after a year or so. International got the bright idea to do away with 2 speed axles a few years back. When enough customers complained, they started putting them back in.
 
Bob has hit the reasons.
Why has the US military gone to automatics? Because they can't find recruits that know how to drive. Let alone shift a standard.
The manufactures don't want to pay warranty repairs on equipment. Extra warranty claims up the price of vehicles. Do you want to pay more for your new vehicle?
Emissions and mileage. Unless you want to pay more gas penalty taxes for the tree huggers. The ECM has to control the engine and transmission.
Anyways, real men are secure enough to let the gears be shifted for them.
You probably miss having the two little levers under the steering wheel to adjust the timing and mixture. And cried when they disappeared.
 
And their parts support is terrible, stopped making body parts and exhaust piping for their trucks. One truck is 6 years old and having a custom pipe made that hooks to the turbo. We have 35 in our fleet L8000 design. chris
 
I don't miss the two levers under the steering wheel. I drive my 1917 Model T roadster pickup to town all the time.
Richard
 
(quoted from post at 06:00:50 04/18/10) I think it was considerably less than 5%. More on the order of 1.5 to 2%.
Click to expand...

I would bet the about 1-2% of truck owners want a manual, so it isn't affordable or profitable for OEM's to offer them.

Manuals were much more popular back when automatics were marginal on strength and reliability, but as automatics have gotten better manuals have gotten less and less desirable.
 
just another reason i'll be keeping my old stuff, the newer they get, the less truck there is and the more car like it gets, guess the city dudes and soccer mommys win this one, in my trucks i have only one automatic, and i dont like it, the truck, a dodge has to warm up for 20 minutes before it will upshift out of 2nd, , not a big deal but its annoying,my old chevy with a 4 speed , from back when chevy made trucks is always ready for more never has failed me in 27 years now, i use a truck as a truck, not to go to the store or throw a bale of hay and a couple t posts in the shiny new bed and go bar hopping
 
There are always aftermarket companies that offer what type of manual transmission you want.
Take out the automatic and list it for sale as New. Put in your manual trans and drive off.
 
There are always aftermarket companies that offer what type of manual transmission you want.
Take out the automatic and list it for sale as New. Put in your manual trans and drive off.
a14094.jpg
 
The way it's was explained to me, it's all about emissions. They need to calculate fleet mileage and can't get consistent performance unless the computer controls the shifts. I'm sure that selling fewer and fewer of them also has something to do with it.

If there's enough demand, some after market outfit will start offering retrofits to manual, might even be relatively cheap if they have a brand new automatic to sell to offset the cost of the changeover. Me, it wouldn't bother me if I never had to shift another gear myself, hauling, plowing snow, etc. is a lot easier with an automatic. I like everything about them better... except paying for them!
 

Maybe it's time for IHC to step up to the plate and start building REAL work trucks again. It would definately be a "niche" market, and the demand most likely would not be huge, but There definately IS a market out there for plain jane, no frills work trucks.
 
Well, I shift a semi all day long in and out of city traffic. Give me an automatic any day. My next semi tractor will have an automatic. I work mostly construction and my leg and arm are sore every night when I come home.

I have had automatics in one ton duallys and in class 6 and 7 Dump trucks. Never had any problems in over 20 years. You can keep your mixing sticks and clutches.
 
Well i know i am getting old a grouchy and in my life time i have had four automatic's in two cars and two pick ups and ya know what i hated them all . The two best auto's were in a 71 340 Duster and the C 6 that was in my 73 F250 4X4 . Now as for my wifes cars they have been all autos except the first one and it was a 4 speed in a 67 Mustang convertible . Ask her what she liked the best and it sure ain't a slush box. Myself i would much rather R&R a clutch and pressure plate then rebuild a slush box . Yes i can rebuild a slush box but why would i want to when simple is better in my book. plus with a standard ya get better fuel mileage . and as far as i am concerned better fuel mileage along with much better hold back when towing. There is no coming up against the stall speed of a converter and not being able to break out a load . The two main reasons that there are so many slush boxes out there is that one people today don't know how to or don't want to learn drive something with a clutch and MANUALLY celected gear celection and two that is what the dealers shoved down your throat and try feeding you the B/S that they are better . Oh and i forgot that We have become LAZZY . I have been looking for a decent USED Dodge Dakota club cab 4x4 WITH A SPEED , In my area all that you find is auto's Don't want a auto . I want a stick shift as i can still manualy celect the gear that I WANT TO USE , the only area that i have seen any of any amount is in , now get this in New York State . When i worked in the car dealer ships i moved from a mechanic to parts manager of a vary large Chrysler Plymouth dealer ship an at the time i became the largest MoPar high performace parts stocking dealer for our district We got a new General manager and he started ordering in nothing but auotmatic dusters road runners and cuda and GTX's our sales on them started to drop like a stone and he could not figure it out why we had all these car not selling but the two other chrysler plymouth dealers sales on the muscles cars we up . At the department heads weekly meeting it was brought up and i told him what the young guys were telling me why they bought rom the opther dealers is they want a four speed and we did not have one on the lot. but they came to me for there goodie's BECAUSE I HAD THEM and the others did not STOCK them . Today the dealers only stock the slush boxes because today vary few can drive a stick or they don't want to be bothered with a standard . So we go to a dealership and it is like going to Micky Dee's this is what you get and you will like it as you oly get it our way not your way now just what color do you want that in SIR.
 
Guess it is all in what you are accustomed to , give me the standard , city or country it just comes natural. And don't give me that crap about real men can feel secure driving a auto. I don't want to pay extra for a product that will cost more to repair and maintain just so some folks that feel the need to have a pick-up as part of there image , can drive one.
 
Before the economy went sour,I think this was actually in the making. I have a good friend that works for International trucks. He told me that they had plans to introduce a pick-up in 2012, but with the economy the way it is, it may be on hold.
 
Yea, a lot of it is that I"m just sentimental for the old stuff. But there are some objective advantages to the manual transmission. For one, they"re a lot cheaper. That is, they would be if anyone could be bothered to learn to drive them so they could be made in sufficient volume to keep tooling costs reasonable.

As for being secure enough to let the transmission do the shifting for me, I suppose there"s some truth to what you say, but there"s more to it. To some degree, at least some of the time, I enjoy driving, but the automatic is boring. And I actually don"t happen to like the way automatics pick gears. I recognize they are right and I am wrong, but I still prefer my way.

At the end of the day, I realize most people want an auto, and I don"t begrudge them that, but I hate losing the option to do it my way.
 
Before the economy went south, my wife road tested new Volvo road tractors after they came off the assembly line. When it came her turn to test an automatic she would try to give it to someone else. She hated them, no takeoff power,took forever to get up to speed, wouldn't downshift when you wanted them to, jakes didn't work as well, plus she didn't know what to do with her left foot. But thats why the build them, some people like them.
 
I believe you've accurately identified a big part of the issue here - they are catering to the poseurs who want to spend ludricous amounts of money for a status symbol. Among other things, I couldn't believe the silly names they have for these trucks now. I think one of Chevy's trucks carries an official moniker something like "Big Burly Bad-A** Laredo Cowboy Dually." Unfortunately, the big, burly tough guy buying it doesn't know how to shift for himself and needs heated butt warmers and infinite cupholders for his mocca latte cappacino.
 
(quoted from post at 09:28:40 04/18/10)they are catering to the poseurs who want to spend ludricous amounts of money for a status symbol.
Click to expand...

I have an automatic in my truck and I didn't buy it to be a status symbol. I bought it to use and in many cases abuse. It has held up to everything I've thrown at it from hauling just about anything, plowing lots of snow, pulling anything that I can get a chain or winch cable around, and driving to the grocery store. O yeah I have heated leather seats in it too, because its nice to have a warm seat when its -30* out, and leather cleans up great compared to cloth.
 
Eliminating them for emissions reasons seems somewhat misguided to me. Every truck I have ever driven with a manual transmission has gotten better fuel mileage than the equivalent truck with an automatic. If I recall correctly, manual transmission are still quite popular in Europe, and still out perform their automatic counterparts.

The real reason manual's have gone away is that American's are lazy and manufacturers aren't interested in supporting an option that only 10% of the population is interested in.
 
Has it ever occoured to you that mabey nobody knows how to drive a manual transmission anymore... because there were none available to them to learn on?
Much like the safety police who insist on making so many rules that even an idiot couldn't hurt themselves, the stupidity conglomerate has removed the need for knowledge from all facets of our everyday lives.
In so doing, both have deprived the population of the ability to actually ~learn~ anything and develop real knowledge. Step by step the masses are turning over control of their lives to the few... and someday they're going to pay for it.

Supposing I have to do a ground up rebuild on a truck so that I can maintain a manual transmission... then I will, but I'll be dammed if I EVER buy an automatic transmission.

Rod
 
Just think, there will come a day when the grouchy, want to hold on to my junk, know it alls will be dead. We will be able to move ahead in technology, our old junk will be sent to China for scrap, and our classic tractors will be the ones with plastic hoods! I dought "IHC" would come out with a pick up, they tried that once remember, and there will be a day when the big 3 will fall, and Toyota or Nissan will be our choice of work truck, but hey, not to many people buy a truck just for work anymore. My truck pulls my trailers, hauls my kids to school, and makes the occasional trip to Grandmas house, so I want my truck to do all of that, and be a little comfortable doing it. Im wondering though, why are the hold outs moaning about there not being a stick available, when they arent going to buy a new truck anyways?! There rust bucket pickups that they are constantly working on are paid for, doesnt matter if they could have bought 4 or 5 trucks with the money theyve dumped in there wonderful classic trucks. Sorry, just venting a little.
 
I don't suppose anyone worth his salt really needs any of those ridiculous extras like electric start, a heater or power steering either!!! They just don't make vehicles like they used too, fortunately.
 
I bought a programmer for the pickup to adjust the shift point when towing.
The factory "Tow" button does improve the shifting and feel for driving any time.
The "tow" setting was tweaked a little more to make the shifts occur at redline when the throttle is wide open.
The shift speeds were adjusted a little to eliminate hunting up/down shifts.

I agree with BobM about all the "old grouchy pants" posters on here that will never purchase a new truck.
 
Question for manual tranny fans: why do want a transmission that limits your towing capacity? Take a look at this chart on the Dodge site. Look at the section "2010 Ram 2500 and 3500" For the 2500, the manual and auto transmission have nearly the same capacity. But when you go to the 3500, the auto has a whopping 2900 lb advantage over the manual.

I like driving a stick as much as the next guy, but manual transmissions have gone the way of the dinosaur and dodo. Heavy earthmoving equipment hasn't used them in over forty years. The market just doesn't exist for manual transmissions in full-size pickups.
Dodge Towing Chart
 
Being better (on paper at least) on one measure does not necessarily make a given design a better overall product. Nor does being more popular. And I"m not saying everybody has to drive a manual, just that I would prefer to have the option for one. I guess you"d just have to take it as a given that a large number of people have a significant preference for them. Of course, a much, much larger portion of the population doesn"t want one, so that option just died.
 
Yes, and on the 3500 chassis/cab the manual has more than the automatic. Go figure. The truth is these tow "ratings" are virtually useless. They always have been.
 

Funny how the automatic "advantage" disappears in larger Rams (4500/5500) 6-speed actually hauls more....

Are rear axle ratio availabilities the same? I remember specing out a Dakota a few years back, you could only go as low as a 3.55 for manual, but the automatic could have 3.92.

For years the 5-speed cummins ram actually had more HP than the same truck in automatic, auto couldn't handle it.

Gearing (or lack of) is what killed the towing ratings for the 1/2 tons, a mid 1980's 1/2 ton with a granny low 4 speed could start a load easily, not so much the crappy higher geared 5-speeds that half tons got in the late 80's and 90's.

The 3/4 and 1 ton market retained the lower gearing, but once the heavier automatics i.e. Allison be came available, and North American disposition to be lazy, the manual fell out of favor.

Now we have a "crop" of drivers who can't drive a stick shift at all.

Dodge is the last full size pick up with a manual box. Apparently they had better economy on selling them, and may now get the die hards that want a manual truck that were GM or Ford owners...
 
I had a 1990 Dodge Dakota. It was an LE model, had the V-6, 4 spd auto-overdrive, longbed, nicest pickup and best performance of any when averaged out as far as comfort economy and power I've ever had. And the last Chrysler product I ever plan to have on my property. Those auto tranny's they put in them dodge's are junk. Go with a manual transmission if/when you can find it.

Bought it in May 91 after returning to the states from Germany. Sold it in Dec 97 on my way to England. Went thru four transmissions (one rebuilt and three new). Good Luck finding one with a standard trans.
 
It's funny how 95-97% of the European market demands a MANUAL transmission. Here it's the exact opposite. The so called lack of market here is probably more a reflection of dealer order tactics and pricing. When my Ranger was bought new it had to be special ordered in plain jane trim with no air, crank windows and a 5 speed.... and it cost more money than it would have cost to buy the same basic truck off the lot which had a slush box AND Air. I forget the dollar difference at this point. It wasn't much... but the manual transmission cost more money.

As far as the tow 'ratings' for the Dodge trucks go... all I can say is that there was a reason why the State of Nebraska charged UNL with operating a tractor test lab... because 'ratings' needed to be challenged at the time. I'd say they still do...............

Earthmoving equipment uses power shift, often with torque converters for the simple reason that most of this equipment needs the ability to go down to stall speed for agility while still maintaining some degree of pull which is not so easy to do (or perhaps not so healthy for) with a clutch. You'll find that most things that do not require that fine control like graders and nearly all ag tractors... that use full powershift transmissions... ALL are a direct drive arrangement.

Rod
 
Well as true as that may seem just look at the Ford E4OD transmission? Total junk made by Ford.

That automatic was made for over 10 years and had the highest factory/warranty failures for the whole time it was in production vs. the other automatics made by Ford. The reasons why the E4OD was the worst:

1. The sensitive valves sat right in the bottom of the sump, lots and lots of contamination issues.

2. The Ford Sharonville plant in Ohio was managed like $hit for decades, by idiots in fact and they had very poor cleanliness for the production of main valve body/accumulator body and the assembly of the solenoid body. The transmission cases that were not washed out well after machining.

3. No drain plug. So the fluid cannot be flushed out.

The Zed F 5 speed manual that went into the F-series trucks were very good and I rode in a few, quite nice.

I had the Mazda M5OD manual in my F-150, it never gave a lick of problems either, I sold that truck in 2002 for $700, it was rusted out.
 
Well, I remember when the torque converter "converted" itself to scrap iron in my '99 Dodge Cummins 3500 with only 60,000 miles, the only thing I could think to say was, "Sure glad I didn't have a manual in this rig." Yeah, I towed a lot with it. But that's kind of the idea, with a one ton diesel, isn't it?
 
I knew the day of the manual transmissions were numbered. Not many on the lot, hard to find option.

Most of the manuals were outsourced. The automatics are built inhouse. Guess that is one way to maximize profits.

I work at a road agency. we have trucks with autos. we have trucks with manuals. The allisons crack cases (about 13,000 to 14,000 hours). Get a heavy snow and at least one will die. They stick in gear, won't shift, etc. Why is that you ask? Get some ice/snow built up on sensor wires and see how long they last. Add some salt and you get electrical component nightmares. Tires also don't last as long with the autos.

On the other hand they do shift quicker when your truck starts falling in a ditch. This will help keep you from falling in.
 
I have been buying trucks with automatics because my wife can't drive a stick. I tried to teach her, but it was easier to buy the truck with the auto. This way, I know she isn't going to wreck it messing with the gear shift or clutch.

When I was in the Army, all the tactical vehicles in the motorpool had automatics.
 
The reason the dodge 4500/5500 have a higher tow rating is because you can get the lower gears. It seems to me the gearing is what is driving all of this as well as the EPA. Not to mention there are those that think these trucks are semis if u need a big truck buy one.
 
Sorry guys on this one haven"t owned a stick tranny pickup in over thirty years and don"t care if it drops off the face of the earth and have had over twenty-five pickups in that time towing new balers, foldup discs, andhydrous tanks up and down creek bottoms in all weather plowing snow you name it with all brands with absolutely no problems. No cell phone in those days just staying alert and talking on the business radio. Also I have a new six speed HD motorcycle and wish that was an automatic going through small towns. My two cents worth.
 
I have an E40D in my 1991 Econoline and I love it. It has an awful lot of towing miles on it and it shifts and works the same as when I bought it. I have a trailer load of farm stuff loaded right now and will be towing it tomorrow.
 
The Mazda M50D transmission was a POS. My company had 14 1993 & 1994 F150s with the 300 6 engine, 7 of them had the transmission replaced before they were traded at 150K and the dealer made each one a PIA when done under warranty. The next generation of pickups was the Chevy with a 4.3 and auto. My brothers owned several 4x4 F150s with the M50D - of the 4, 3 had failed transmissions. I agree the ZF 5 speed was a very good transmission, but it hasn't been used in years and the "new" 6 speed has severe reliability issues.
 
Have had 2 manual pickup trucks in the last 12 yrs.

Why a manual? 12 yrs ago got my oldest daughter a used 94 Ranger (5 speed) when she turned 16. She refused to drive it as it was a stick and was in tears when I pulled up in it. I just pointed to the curb and said "there it is, learn how to drive it or walk". Well, took about 1 day of looking at it and another day of learning and she was tooling around town.

When I needed a vehicle for my next 2 daughters, I had a hard time finding one with a manual trans back in 2004. Finally found a nice Chevy 2002 Work Truck. Oldest daughter (one with the Ranger) explained to younger sisters that they'll be glad it's a stick, so they'll learn how to drive one. Youngest can barely see over the steering wheel and the guys in school were impressed that she drove up in it. (most of them couldn't drive one).

What's interesting to me about this thread is I just spent the last 2 weekends under the 02 Chevy replacing the clutch. It's got 100k on it and the clutch was just starting to slip, not completely gone. Wife thought I was nuts for doing the job myself (never had done a clutch job and wanted to be able to say I did one before they're all gone).

Anyway, glad I did the job myself. Evidence indicates the transmission was removed before I bought it. (Top, almost inaccessible, trans-to-engine bolt missing), cracked plastic fitting on hydraulic line which is held up with wire ties instead of factory clips, pilot bearing installed wrong allowing the front of trans shaft to be unsupported). Supposedly, the dealer I bought it from had done all the maintenance on it and was proud of that fact and made it a selling point when I bought it at 47K miles. Well, so much for pride in workmanship.

Regarding/ the trans/auto debate, every Chrysler automatic mini-van I had (bought 3 in the late 80's & 90's) had a transmission failure around 70k miles. Now, over a decade or so, you'd think that they'd fix the design deficiencies.

Gun guru makes some interesting comments that are an indictment of the auto industry in general. Transmissions aren't a "new-fangled thing". There should be incremental improvements in technology and you'd think the days of a transmission being a POS (no matter who the mfr was) would be over.

As for preference, I like to shift, my wife hates to drive the truck because she doesn't.
 
(quoted from post at 05:51:30 04/19/10) The Mazda M50D transmission was a POS. My company had 14 1993 & 1994 F150s with the 300 6 engine, 7 of them had the transmission replaced before they were traded at 150K and the dealer made each one a PIA when done under warranty. The next generation of pickups was the Chevy with a 4.3 and auto. My brothers owned several 4x4 F150s with the M50D - of the 4, 3 had failed transmissions. I agree the ZF 5 speed was a very good transmission, but it hasn't been used in years and the "new" 6 speed has severe reliability issues.
Click to expand...
he Mazda M5OD was far from a POS.I pushed ,pulled ,shoved ,bumped,pull started tractors and towed heavy trailers over the road with "0" problems for nearly 200000 miles.Not only that, it was still chattering the original clutch.As far as the 6 speed is concerned ,I have one of those as well and at 70000 miles I've had no problems either. In my opinion the ZF 6 speed is the best transmission ever installed in a domestic pickup truck and I've had 3, 4, 5 and now this 6 speed.
 
Hey Baby Boomers like me!! I call your attention to the dragstrip when I watched many saturday nights when the Chrysler SSA 426 Hemis would take on any 4 spd or 3spd CR grinders and would blow them away I've even seen a 427 Ford/Mercury Thunderbolt pull an awesome wheelstand and by the time his front wheels hit the pavement the Dodge Coronet crossed the finish line. Not a Chrysler fan by the way but am a believer in the AT.
 
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