I think my bladder broke

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

went out to feed yesterday and noticed waterers were dry. went down to pump house and pump wasnt running. breaker on. gave preasure switch slap and pump started. took while but preasured up. but then continued kicking on and off. 3 lines out of manafold so isolated it to one line that must have leak. check at waterer no visable leaks so figured must leak under ground some where but thats a diff problem. shut off that line for night. 2 other waterers on diff line. took small compressor down to pump house this morn and tried preasuring up bladder. dont seem to make no diff with that line open pump kick on off constant. shut line and went to diff waterer and set float so leaked. pump acts same constant off and on. tried more air in tank but not helping. tire gauge doesnt read nothing no matter how much air i pump in even with all valves on mamafold closed. what do you guys think?? bladder broke?? keep pumping more air for awhile, what kind preasure should be on air side of tank? what kind volume would that be on a approx ten gallon tank?? any suggestion to be sure bladder has hole before buying new tank or bladder and changing out?

thanks for any help and sarcasm welcome if you cant help yourself. LOL.

Nebraska Cowman · Mar 12, 2010

Oh yeah, sounds like. Those bladder tanks were a nice idea but they don't last. Then you don't pay any attention cuz you assume it's working. Next thing you know either the pump or the switch fails from constantly cycling on and off.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 12, 2010

You might want to change out the pressure switch first, and if that doesn't help you probably need a pump.

A bladder doesn't really do much in a farm or home water system. The use of a bladder to separate air from water in a pressure tank is optional.

Bill in IL · Mar 12, 2010

If your bladder is bad you will get water out of the sniffer valve on the top of the tank if you drain the air out.

I got the same problem with my pump down at the barn. Didn't get but 2-3 years out of that darn tank but the one in the house has lasted well.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 12, 2010

First turn off the power,next drain the tank empty. The precharge pressure in the tank should be 1 to 2 psi below the pressure switch pump cut in setting. The cut in pressure setting maybe inside the cover of the switch. I don't know what the preset is for a 10 gallon tank. If say the cut in pressure 20 and the cut out is 40psi, then pump the bladder to 18psi. Good luck

Nebraska Cowman · Mar 12, 2010

Maybe I don't understand and somebody will correct if I am wrong but what the manufacturer did was steal the galvanizing out of your tank. They put the water in a vinyl bladder and the air on top of it. Works real nice til the air leaks down and the bladder ruptures from the water pressure. Then pretty soon the unprotected tank is rusted out. At any rate all you have is a pile of expensive junk.

Anonymous-0 · Mar 12, 2010

When I had that problem it turned out to be a hole in an elbow at the well. The pump guy tought sure it was the pump and replaced that, then sent me inside to the tank to build up air pressure. No pressure build up with his compressor. He thought I was less than smart, but he couldn't build up pressure either. So he started digging. Went away and came back with a 2" solid brass elbow. Water has been fine ever since.

Underground pipes in winter have been known to break and so make a really big leak.

Gerald J.

Russ from MN · Mar 12, 2010

You do not need a new pump or switch the way you describe the problem. When a pump short cycles it usually is a waterlogged tank. Are you sure you are putting air in the tank, if so, where is it going? you need to do some further troubleshooting before you start buying parts!

Two Dogs · Mar 12, 2010

I have a bladder tank (Sears) and it's probably over twenty years old. I know mine works cause I pay attention to it.

TDF

Russ from MN · Mar 12, 2010

Exactly! I cut one up for scrap and that is what I found, although if you run them properly they work great. I have had great luck with them, the one I cut apart was just left in our crawl space, no longer in use. I think a lot of people just don't understand how a water system works!

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

hello Russ. thats where i was. i went to pump and played with preasure switch. reset to 20lb on and 4olb off. think i had it set about same before this but now settings on springs completely diff. takes about 10-15 min to bleed down now to 20 then kicks on for like 2 sec and back to 40. thinking its cause no air cushion on back side of preasure tank???

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

help here if you can. i figured the air was there as a cushion, no? sorta same as air in diesel lines air will compress for ever and not reach injector openning preasure. this said with air in presure tank it expands more as water pres lessens giving a break in how often pump runs

Russ from MN · Mar 12, 2010

You could have some pipes or the tubing to the pressure switch plugged with crud. Did this problem occur all at once, or slowly over time?

Anonymous-0 · Mar 12, 2010

Sounds like you might have bad contacts on the pressure switch. Turn the power off and see it they are pitted. A new switch doesn't cost much and easy to replace.

BCnT · Mar 12, 2010

even if the bladder has ruptured you should still be able to pump air into tank and create a air pocket...the symptoms you decribed are from a water logged tank or a pretty good leak.

Russ from MN · Mar 12, 2010

Yes, the air is a cushion, the only reason for the bag is to prevent the water from absorbing the air, called water-logging.

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

far as i know just suddenly. system was working fine. that said i dont check down at the pump house every day so cant say how pump was running. water was coming to waters and tap at barn was working. do check down there probably weakly mostly on weekends.

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

explain to me a water loged tank please. thanks rocko

rhouston · Mar 12, 2010

general rule is 2 to 3 lbs less air pressure than pump kick on pressure. Is it a short cycle or does the it pump up to pressure then loose pressure until the pump kicks on with water usage? if so check the check valve on the incoming water supply to the pump. Mine was stuck open once and that did cycle the pump, but I could see the pressure come up to shut off point then go back down to kick on point and just keep doing that over and over. If possible you can shut off all incoming and outgoing lines and see if the pressure stays constant. Then open the incoming line and see if the pressure drops. If it does replace the check valve on the incoming line. IF this is a shallow well it may be a foot valve on the end of the pipe and or a check valve a few feet before the pump.

rhouston · Mar 12, 2010

second sentence should be Is it a short cycle or does it pump up to pressure then loose pressure until the pump kicks on WITHOUT water usage?

Brian G. NY · Mar 12, 2010

Bill has it right. Release the air valve and if there is water there, you know the bladder is blown. I just replaced my SIL"s about a month ago. I"ve replaced a couple of tanks where the bladder has ruptured and I also replaced one where the tank rusted a pin hole and wouldn"t hold air. I also worked on one where (like someone here said) the small copper line from the pump (shallow well pump) to the control switch had plugged up. It presented the same symptoms.

rocko · Mar 12, 2010

thanks everyone for your advice. turned out it did just need more air in the bladder or tank if as i understand it now the water is in the bladder and air in tank??? took a bigger compresser in wheel barrow through the mud and also diff air chuck and hooked to air side of tank (similar to tire valve on one end of tank) after about a min heard pop inside tank and though OH NO!! pumped bit more and tried tire gauge, read 5lb filled to 18lb as someone suggested, close valve on manafold where was draining water out, turned on pump, off at 40 on at 20 and flowed about 15-20 gal before kick back on, about 5 min to build presure. if ther is a break in that one line some where its small cuase now takes about half hour to kick on and that could be animals drinking> oh did check preasure line to switch too, it was clear.

Thanks again all for your concern about my bladder problem! rocko.

Wjt091 · Mar 12, 2010

had a problem with my well bit the bullet bought a new tank found out the elbow on the old tank at the bottom was almost rusted shut.

Paul in MN · Mar 12, 2010

Another possible failure of the bladder is when the rubber baldder ruptures in such a manner that it acts as a one-way valve at the input elbow at the bottom of the tank. This happened to one of my tanks. The well pump would pump up pressure (delivering water) going into the base of the tank....pushing back on the torn rubber, but then the rubber would fall back over the elbow hole, and no water could come out of the tank or only a trickle was delivered. What a SOB to diagnose that one. The water goes in and out of the tank through the same elbow hole at the bottom of the tank.

Paul in MN

BCnT · Mar 12, 2010

water logged means there is no air pocket to compress...liquid doesnt compress...air does and its used to keep pressure on water so the pump doesnt run all the time...example:if your power goes off,the air in tank will let you fill a glass with water,flush a commode,etc.
if the tank is water logged,when the power goes out,so does your water.

Russ from MN · Mar 14, 2010

Thank you for letting us know what you found, so often when this happens we never find out! If the problem reoccurs it probably means you have a broken bladder, by adding air you can get by that way for a while, but it will happen again.

I think my bladder broke

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