Duals vs no duals

Dave from MN · Mar 3, 2010

Opinions, other than flotation on soggy ground, what do most of you think about running duals? I Have duals on my big tractor (the Oli), but not on my Case. To me I think I should run duals on al my tractors in the spring to reduce compaction, plus the tractor sure rides smoother on the rougher ground, such as chisel plowed ground. Traction is also a big factor in my mind, because I feel I can pull larger peices with less slippage. Neighbor who has same ground( and also is calling me to pull him out) says duals are a waste of money on our ground. What do some of you think? Just looking at differences in opinions here for discussion sake. I am getting a set for the Case. Which I finnally posted a picture of. $3200, included the loader, new bale spear, snow, and dirt/manure bucket. All I had to do so far was replace a lower cab window, and replace intake/exhaust gaskets and mill down the exhaust manifold. I do have to fix the PTO though, it is always turning.

Allan in NE · Mar 3, 2010

oh yeah,

Gotta have those duals to put the power on the ground without the compaction.

Allan

rrlund · Mar 3, 2010

They literally double your traction and floatation,what more can you say. I can't pull my chisel plow without them. The tractor just slips. I don't know why there's even an arguement about it. This neighbor who told you they were a waste of money,is he the same one who told you that a pre emerge herbicide was a waste of money too? If he is,he sounds like the kind of guy who serves as a great "bad example". What ever this nut bag says,do the opposite,every time.

Vernon in Ks · Mar 3, 2010

Duals are not going to add any noticable traction. I am adding duals to my 100hp for reducing compaction,as I am also adding 700lbs of weight. I also like the way it rides a little smoother.

Tech 7 · Mar 3, 2010

duals won't always help traction but will reduce compaction. Years ago neighbor had mired a fertilizer spreader really badly. We got the spreadr unhooked from the tractor,got the tractor ahead 10 ft then lost it too. had to get the spreader out to get at tractor. Jack went and got his beloved "V-8" 1150 Massey with 24.5x32 mains plus duals...it moved a few yards of earth with the tires but was floating too much to pull.I being the cocky young kid backed in with Jacks 4010 JD on 18.4x34 singles and lifted the spreader out in 4th gear. That was 30 years ago but always remember the look on Jacks face.

DeltaRed · Mar 3, 2010

your duals must have as much tread as the primarys.If they are smooth they are worse than none

Fordfarmer · Mar 3, 2010

Even if you only run them a couple weeks to prevent compaction, get them. My Grandpa never had a set. I got a set for the spreader tractor, and now have sets for all but the Jubilee. More traction, less compaction, less apt to get stuck (but you're REALLY stuck if you get stuck with them on!), less fuel used. Your Case looks like it has 18.4x34's - look around at auctions and you can usually pick up a set of those for $200-300 with all hardware. Money well spent.

Fordfarmer · Mar 3, 2010

Should have added... DON'T run them in snow. You'll be stuck in no time.

Fawteen · Mar 3, 2010

I ain't got a dog in this fight, but I'm curious as to your reasoning for stating they won't improve traction.

My thinking is, more weight from the extra rims and tires, plus more rubber on the ground, seems to me that would have to improve traction at least a little.

Just looking to learn here...

Lumpy · Mar 3, 2010

Put them on with the tread going backwards. This gives you the traction to back-up with the loader on and you still have floatation.

Lumpy · Mar 3, 2010

Put them on with the tread going backwards. This gives you the traction to back-up with the loader on and you still have floatation.

Leyland-270 · Mar 3, 2010

If you want to read up on it there are some tech manuals that will explain it perfectly. I could not find a web site at this time but I am sure there is one out there.

I have a John Deere and a Ford manual put out by the dealerships. Other than the brand of tractors in the photos the info matches. According to the books duals will cut compaction is half. As for traction, well there is where it gets confusing. It is based completely upon soil types and conditions. Believe it or not duals can double your traction or may decrease traction by 20%. I have tried to figure out a general rule of thumb but the best I could do is to tell you that duals may not help on sod bound soil depending upon implement. In most other cases there is no loss of traction. You will notice the most gain in loose fine (sandy) type soils. Weighting is just as important. If you are experiencing power hop, or loss of traction before power loss you are not weighted properly.

MSJ from MN · Mar 3, 2010

I farm in sandy ground. Before we got our four wheel drive we used to our tillage with a 4440. If the ground was dry it was almost impossible to do anything without duals. It would spin and sink.

Bill(Wis) · Mar 3, 2010

Duals can give you the best of all worlds and you can make the call. Duals can provide excellent flotation if coupled with no ballast and about 12 psi inflation. Or, they can give you greatly improved traction ballasted to the maximum rated load and inflated properly. By using cast iron ballast you can make these adjustments quickly. If using liquid ballst, it is recommended by most manufacturures to not ballast more than 40% and ballast each tire equally. Inflate each tire equally as well. Radials, by far the better choice, will have different (lower) tire pressure recommendations than bias. Radials will have a larger footprint that way. They bulge out noticeably laterally but also longitudinally. On really large diameter tires a radial's footprint will start to resemble the footprint of a track. Total tractor weight distribution is important as well and generally falls somewhere in between 25% front/75% rear (2WD) depending on whether you're pulling by drawbar or using 3 point mounted implements. In the case of heavy three point mounted implements the duals are a real plus.

showcrop · Mar 3, 2010

As Leland 20 and Tech 7 pointed out, you will get more traction in most cases but not all depending on what you are trying to get traction on or in. Under some mud or loose soil conditions, or as Ford farmer said on snow, The adequately pressured single will be able to dig down to some firm material, while duals will give you flotation and stay on top and spin. Terrain will of course also affect your decision.

JMS/.MN · Mar 3, 2010

If you already have duals on one tractor, you should know the answer to your question. I can"t imagine running any field tractor with singles, even MFWD, no matter sand or clay. You gain traction and flotation, fuel efficiency, but need some decent tread on the duals. Run them about 2/3 the psi of the insides. Besides, when you get the big one stuck, you don"t have a chance of pulling it out with the little one with singles.

RodinNS · Mar 3, 2010

IF the duals have good lugs AND you ballast them to bite, they will give you probably close to double the pull. Otherwise they're probably going to give you very little gain and may even be a hinderance.
They will also increase flotation if ballasted lightly. Whether or not they reduce compaction is debatable...
There's as much research out there to suggest that they do not as there is research to suggest that tehy do.

Rod

Dave from MN · Mar 3, 2010

Your correct, same guy. He also grumbled about me drilling beans in 2 years ago, and planting 8000 higher on population than he recommended. You know the saying " I ain't trying to tell you what to do, but if it where me..yada yada yada.

Ken Macfarlane · Mar 3, 2010

If your ground is such the duals cause the weight on each tire to not be enough to get the lugs to bite in you're done.

Its similar to a dually pickup in soft sand or snow, absolutely useless.

Fawteen · Mar 3, 2010

That makes sense. Thanks.

brian(MN) · Mar 3, 2010

You answered your own question. If you are doing any kind of tillage you will get benefit from duals. Like you said , added stability, added weight for better traction, better traction equals faster ground speed.
Brian(MN)

Allan in NE · Mar 3, 2010

Huh?

All ya gotta do is look at the ground.

Allan

Allan in NE · Mar 3, 2010

Huh?

All ya gotta do is look at the ground.

Allan

Cas · Mar 3, 2010

I am all for duals. There might be one risk with
Case 870,970, and 1070. Our 870 was one of the
ones with batch of bad axles made on the first
ones. We broke both axles in 3 years. I do not
know if there is anyway you can tell if you
have the updated axles.

greenbeanman in Kansas · Mar 3, 2010

In the 1970s I kept reading about radial tires which were something new for tractors.

My 1070 Case had fluid ballast and wheel weights too but had fairly well worn tires when I purchased it.

I inquired about buying a set of radials and the local tire shop had never sold any nor carried them. However they did make me a deal---I could buy them at their cost if I would go pick them up 100 miles away at the distributor, and if I would allow them to refer others to me as others considered purchasing them. Of course I did have to pay for mounting, but I went for the deal.

The very first thing I noticed when driving the tractor home was the sound in the cab. Very little. The ride was better too.

When pulling an 18 foot disc I gained a full one acre per hour using the same gearing and engine speed as before.

I haven't farmed for years so don't know if everyone has them as duals or if they are even available, but I for one would opt for radials any day over duals. With our soils and crops compaction was not a big issue as it might be for others.

To me the extra purchase cost was well worth the 1 acre per hour advantage.

Bob Bancroft · Mar 3, 2010

One spring, in desperation, about 2-3 acres shy of finishing planting oats, I mudded them in. The 4020- 18.4x34 duals, rolled through pulling a 14' disc and cultipacker. The 2520, with good 15.5x38 radials, got stuck more than once pulling the 10' drill through! The planting tractor now has duals, and this year, going to a 6 row corn planter over a 4 row, will have 30" spaced duals on it.
The primary tillage tractor(Magnum 7240) has axle mount duals which never come off.

4430jd · Mar 3, 2010

You always want to run duals on a ground working tractor, Somewhat even tread, Reduces Compaction and increase's stability, Also on any planting tractor pulling more than a 6 row in worked ground for the very same reasons,

RodinNS · Mar 3, 2010

Compaction?
If you're talking about initial compaction in loose soil, I think it's pretty well even on singles or duals except that duals cover twice the area.
In terms of deeper compaction... research I've looked at shows a yeild drop on the inside row, the pinch row and the outside row. Basically anything near the wheels. I don't recall that is was much different on singles except that there was one less row effected.

The relationship between compaction and flotation is a lot more dubious than a lot of people believe. The same applies to tracks...

Rod

Duals vs no duals

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