New to the Board - Looking for advice

Hey folks,

I'm realatively new to this group so please be kind. My wife and I have a small 15 acre farm used mainly for grazing, but we want to revitalize it.

We have 2 old Ford tractors on the farm. a running 9n with an 8n engine with LOTs of hours and could use some work, and a no-op newer 8n with a loader (it was parked in the field, I have no idea of its condition, but it looks good.)

Well, now we need to lay some irrigation pipe and pull some russian olive after getting a irrigation grant out of the USDA. We were looking at buying a used excavator, a backhoe, a backhoe unit for the Ford...etc. Too many options, too little money.

We're starting to lean towards a newer tractor with a 3-pt backhoe attachment, maybe a loader too. While I like the idea of my wife sanctioning a new piece of equipment, being the gearhead I am, I'm all for saving the Fords. Time is always an issue: I have a day job and plenty of projects and I need to get the pipe layed on schedule.

While we have to have the tractor for the field, a backhoe or ex would be cool but limited use. Could our ol' 9n handle one of the smaller backhoe units or would I need to rebuild the hydraulics etc before? (and is it hard, I' have handled engines, trannies and diffs in cars before...tractors?) She works a back blade OK, though it will bleed down after a time once the motor is turned off. Plows OK too.

We don't make a living off the farm at this point, but we have a timeframe for the irrigation grant. Should I just
"farm out" the trench work?

Help, some experienced input needed. Thanks in advance - Bob

Rent a trencher...they are relatively inexpensive by the day and quicker than a backhoe for what you want to do. I trenched about 300 yards in less than 2 hours late fall to put a hydrant in my back pasture...and I am glad now, since i don't have to tote water out to a frozen feild.

i got nuthin against Fords...ran them most of my life...N's are just too small for that kinda work...disk,plow,run a shredder or sickle mower...you cant beat em for cheap workhorse.

i'd either hire somebody or rent a backhoe for the weekend...price is usually less on weekends around here.
another idea that your tractor mite be capable of is pulling a single shank sub soiler...i pull one behind my 62 Ford 2000 and it doesnt breathe hard...i've run 1" pvc thru the tunnel the sub soiler leaves...dig a hole on one end,cap the pipe,and start pushing...i usually push 5 joints in and dig another hole and do same...alot easier than it sounds.
btw:all the N's had the same engine...the later models got rid of the front distributor but basically same.

Sounds like an EQIP grant maybe? Go rent an excavator from a rental place for the weekend. I rented one last fall for $500 for a weekend. You will not be able to fix/upgrade any tractor or purchase one that will meet your needs for that cost. This will give you time to look for a tractor, or fix the ones you have, and also meet your deadline. You may end up saving yourself some money as well.

An N series Ford would be a very poor choice for a backhoe or loader. The N series Fords are good for lighter work like clearing snow or pulling smaller implements. If you don't have to dig too deep or wide, just rent a trencher or a mini excavator. Some trenchers you walk with and they go about 3 or 4 ft. deep. It's not a big concern if the 3 pt. creeps down with the engine shut off. Unless you're going to use a backhoe a lot, I thinks it's a lot of money to spend with only 15 acres. Upgrading to a newer tractor wouldn't be a bad idea though. Dave

Rent a backhoe/ excavator or hire the backhoing job done.

Rebuild one of the Fords for your fun to use tractor. They have very limited capibilites and _no_ safety features for a casual user new to tractors, but they hold their value because everyone thinks they are cute. If you enjoyed getting one running, perhaps rebuild the other & sell it. Or just sell it for a parts tractor to someone who wants to rebuild.

A slightly newer tractor from the mid 1950s and beyond might be a good thing for you. With 3pt, live hydraulics, live pto, more gear speeds to choose from and a tad bit heavier than the N. You get some nice features then, and able to do more with limited time.

--->Paul

(reply to post at 12:58:20 03/01/10)

Click to expand...

Thanks for all the ideas. I really appreciate the inputs. It is an EQUIP grant, and the specs are pretty defined, the bury depth is 3' and its 10" pipe so I think renting an ex for the weekend is a good idea. I like the ol' Fords, but I can see a newer used tractor in our future. I've done some work on the 9n already, but she's needing some TLC. Thanks again for all the comments.

You did say 10" pipe? If so that rules out the trencher.

I was just looking at the Ditchwitch site the other day and they have a trencher that goes 10' deep and 36" wide in ROCK ! They are planning on them being used to install all the wind power green energy units going up in the future.

Being new you wouldn't know,but there is ONE person who knows everything about anything and he goes by "old". Got a question ask him,he knows all.He may even ask you what you had for breakfast.

Do what Paul suggested and rent the equipment. Hire a helper so you get the ditch dug, pipe layed and backfilled, then return the rental items. Hal

Forget buying exspencive equipment for a small job. HIRE IT DONE AND HOLD THE CONTRACTOR TO THE STANDARD It would be different if you had hundreds of acers and could use this (excavator) for years to come. I have seen to many people do this they never get there work done and end up with a piece of broken junk.

You're in a pickle. Renting isn't cheap. About $450 a day by me, but you're talking 15 acres, so maybe it wouldn't add up too badly. Ford N's are kind of small, but I had a friend that had one with a backhoe and a loader on it, and he used them both in a mobile home park that he owned for laying sewage tile and other stuff, so I can guarantee you that an N can do it, but it wouldn't be my choice if say I planned on getting in that kind of work for a living...for that I'd go a Case C series, and that's mega $$$, but you aren't planning on contractor work, just around the homestead. By the time you invest in a used backhoe to mount on that thing, and the hydraulics to make it work, and if you mount and hook it up yourself, none of which is going to be easy, it'll probably cost you a lot less to rent a ditchwitch. Its your money and time though.

Do yourself a real big favor, because ditchwitch's aint got no problem what so ever going though water or gas pipes, buried electric or telephone, just make sure that you're clear on all of that stuff, because, well, your day could end very expensive or far worse. A couple few years ago, a couple of miles from me over in Union, MI at Tharpe Lake Rd and US12, a young apprentice fella was backhoing in a farm field where they were going to put up a barn, and he left an expecting to be a mother young bride as a widow. Was the biggest dang instant hole in the ground I ever seen in the middle of a farm field when he hit that gas main, bigger than the barn they finally put up. Shook houses for miles and miles and miles. Mighty big hole. Hold on a minute, I'll go google and see if I can find a picture of that. Yep, I found a picture of it. Man, that was a pretty big hole.

Good luck, but be careful.

Mark
Dont get carried away with your new backhoe

Lay out all your trench lines. Get a total footage. Ask the rental place for the specs on how many feet per minute their 4WD ride on trencher will cut. This will give you an idea on rental costs. Cut all your trenches and return the trencher. Lay the pipe at your convienence. Cover the ditches with a blade on the 9n. I believe you will find it much cheaper than trying to own the equipment.

If your in irrigation country there has to be local contractors who can knock that job out for less time/$ than your going to have in it. BTW if you find a way to elimnate the olive pls. post it, ive been fighting that stuff for years.

Not gonna say anything about the tractors, but I am gonna comment on the Russian Olive. I got the dam*ned Autumn Olive started in my area, thanks to expert advice and free seedlings from the Missouri Department of Conservation.

You mentioned "pulling" it. DONT !!!

It will just send up about 100 shoots.

Cut it off as flush with the ground as possible and treat the stumps and every little shoot you can see with Tordon.

I bought a big straight shaft Stihl weed eater that will handle a saw blade. It works good for wacking the smaller ones off flush.

Pulling will just increase your problem.

I rescued about 70 acres from locust sprouts, multiflora rose, blackberry and Autumn Olive.

It raised 185 bu corn this year, which is good for this area.

Gene

15 acres and a day job? RENT, RENT RENT!!!!!!!!!
I don't see how you could ever pencil out a business case to work for 15 acres and the new equipment you are thinking about. Compact diesel tractor - yes, excavator - no way.

I speak from experience as the other posters do.

Get a new excavator = (rent) in there or contract someone to do the pipe. Then take your free time and money saved to putt around with the tractor/equipment you want to play with/restore.

I sold my excavator and backhoe. I now rent a 5 ton excavator 1 weekend maybe 2 a year. That rent is cheaper than the maintenance on the diggers.

As for the russian olives, rent a dozer w/a root rake. We don't see to much of those only in the southern part of Michigan.

Good luck with your property.
Rick

If you can't get Tordon, a 50/50 mix of diesel and roundup seems to work for me- I've painted stumps of many kinds of stuff, and haven't had any re-sprout. I don't know if it kills the whole root, because I haven't tried it on any thing like silver maple or olive, that sends up shoots from the roots.

The reason renting equipment costs so much is that there's a big risk in renting it out. Inexperienced operators are many times more likely to break things or have accidents. To get around this, you may be able to save by taking the risk on yourself and buying, using, then re-selling an excavator. You take a big risk on possible repairs, but if you find the right deal, you may end up using the equipment for nothing, and you can take your time.

There's the biggest risk of all though: My Dad bought a a Bobcat mini excavator at auction to do some work and that was about 8 years ago and now there's no getting rid of it. It's just too darn convenient to have around. Anyway, it's not like a car. Industrial equipment doesn't depreciate very fast if it's maintained, shedded, and not adding on many hours.

park the fords buy a more modern unit.fix the fords later