- Thread starter JMOR
- Start date
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Ain't lookin' too good for Toyota.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Ain't lookin' too good for Toyota. It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that innocent people have lost their lives because of Toyota's ineptitude.
Kentb of SWMO
Well-known Member
I do not think the words "Software" and "Brake Systems" should be in the same sentence.
Kent
Kent
I've got a Prius and don't have brake problems.
What some people perceive as brake problems is that when you have it in normal drive position, the engine is not engaged to give you any additional engine braking when you let off the gas. Accordingly, you do have to put a little more pressure on the brake and sooner when compared to driving another car. More of a perception issue than a real braking issue. I notice it when slowing down for a corner, in my pickup or any other vehicle the engine slows it down as I usually back off the gas fairly early and don't have to brake so much. With the Prius, I have to brake a little sooner than the other vehicles.
The Prius also has a drive gear that allows the engine to be engaged for braking. I've used it in the mountains and it works allright but for normal flat land driving, I don't use it.
Prius brakes are a non issue if you understand what is going on.
What some people perceive as brake problems is that when you have it in normal drive position, the engine is not engaged to give you any additional engine braking when you let off the gas. Accordingly, you do have to put a little more pressure on the brake and sooner when compared to driving another car. More of a perception issue than a real braking issue. I notice it when slowing down for a corner, in my pickup or any other vehicle the engine slows it down as I usually back off the gas fairly early and don't have to brake so much. With the Prius, I have to brake a little sooner than the other vehicles.
The Prius also has a drive gear that allows the engine to be engaged for braking. I've used it in the mountains and it works allright but for normal flat land driving, I don't use it.
Prius brakes are a non issue if you understand what is going on.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I agree, and I also don't think it is a very good idea to have the gas pedal connected to the engine via an electronic doo-dad, but ALL of them, foreign and domestic, are built that way.
Sorry, bc, but in my book that is a bunch of rationalization B.S.! When a man's foot hits the pedal, the brake should be applied NOW! No one second delay allowed! The guy blowing thru the red light always gives the other guy a one second heads-up, ya know.
As for 'software' and 'brakes' in same sentence....well, any joe who ever 'drove' a computer with Windows on it da*n well knows that!
Every car company has had major screw-ups, regardless of what country it was built in. Just seems that people (along with the media) make more of a big deal about it and whine. Many recalls were done ad hoc, some voluntary, and some mandated without all the silly press coverage. The Ford "roll-over" SUVS and "bad" Firestone tires are a prime example of media hype.
Ford has a recall on 14 million cars and trucks right now due to the chance of them catching fire (my 1994 F250 is in the list).
Remember the "blow up" gas tanks in the Ford Pintos? Sudden gas pedal take off with Volkswagen-Audis in the 80s? Dead-on-the-road Chevy Vegas with aluminum-bore engines built like lawn mower engines? Or, pre 1982 one piece hood/cowls in Chevy/GMC pickups that alledgely cut off your head in certain collisions? The first Honda cars that literally fall apart?
Ford cars and pickups that catch fire due to the brake-switch have been in some sort of process of recall for years. My 94 is still on the recall list and I haven't fixed it yet. I brought it to a Ford dealer last summer and they refused to fix it. Now, I just got a letter direct from Ford asking me to LET them fix it.
I kind of hate to say it, but Toyota has been #1 with quality control for a very long time. Maybe now they getting a little slack, fat and lazy. But certainly now worse then any of the other makes. It was Japanese companies e.g. Toyota and Datsun that forced GM and Ford to start making better vehicles back in the late 70s, early 80s. In that regard, the foreign cars did us a favor.
On the subject of recalls, tractor companies have their problems as well. Deere has had some massive recalls over the years. Probably the biggest was when they had to recall every 2010 and 450 crawler ever made with the HL-R transmission - because people were getting killed from run-overs in neutral.
Ford has a recall on 14 million cars and trucks right now due to the chance of them catching fire (my 1994 F250 is in the list).
Remember the "blow up" gas tanks in the Ford Pintos? Sudden gas pedal take off with Volkswagen-Audis in the 80s? Dead-on-the-road Chevy Vegas with aluminum-bore engines built like lawn mower engines? Or, pre 1982 one piece hood/cowls in Chevy/GMC pickups that alledgely cut off your head in certain collisions? The first Honda cars that literally fall apart?
Ford cars and pickups that catch fire due to the brake-switch have been in some sort of process of recall for years. My 94 is still on the recall list and I haven't fixed it yet. I brought it to a Ford dealer last summer and they refused to fix it. Now, I just got a letter direct from Ford asking me to LET them fix it.
I kind of hate to say it, but Toyota has been #1 with quality control for a very long time. Maybe now they getting a little slack, fat and lazy. But certainly now worse then any of the other makes. It was Japanese companies e.g. Toyota and Datsun that forced GM and Ford to start making better vehicles back in the late 70s, early 80s. In that regard, the foreign cars did us a favor.
On the subject of recalls, tractor companies have their problems as well. Deere has had some massive recalls over the years. Probably the biggest was when they had to recall every 2010 and 450 crawler ever made with the HL-R transmission - because people were getting killed from run-overs in neutral.
Hi JMOR who wrote "When a man's foot hits the pedal, the brake should be applied NOW! No one second delay allowed!"
No where in my statement did I say anything about a one second delay.
All I can speak for is my Prius. At the "exact same time" I hit the brake pedal, the brakes are being applied. I can feel the brakes engaging when I hit the pedal. No delay on mine. No rationalization there, I'm speaking from actual experience. And I don't run red lights either, don't know where you got that from.
But apparently you so sound like you are speaking from experience so you must own a Prius and have experienced a one second delay between pressing the pedal and when the brakes engage. My advice to you then is that you should quit driving yours and get yours towed to the shop ASAP for repair.
I've had more problems with Ford, Chevy, and Pontiac anti-lock brakes than anything else. Nothing worse than driving on ice and snow when you can't trust what those anti-lock brakes are going to do. Nothing worse than letting off the gas to slow down a long time before a stop sign and then when applying the brakes they start stuttering so much you have no control over them. Before anti-lock brakes, most of us in snow country knew not to drive fast, to slow down long before a corner, and how to tap the brakes in a controlled stop.
On my 2000 ford f150, the factory didn't screw in one of the front caliper mounting bolts. So the caliper was shifting when applied. Found it out when the brakes failed prematurely (but after warranty) and the one pad was wore down on one end and not the other. But I fixed two birds there cause I must have not have matched up the magnet deal when I put the rotor on so the anti-lock brakes don't work on it now anyway.
I will say that I don't trust anything that has to do with steering, braking, transmission shifting, or the gas pedal that is electronically controlled by computer and not directly connected with linkage. I'd rather deal with bent linkage that crummy electrical computer parts that can fail at the drop of a hat or due to some electromagnetic interference. Unfortunately all the companies are using electrical computer stuff. I had a vcr that failed 1 day after the 90 day warranty. Probably lightning but I still don't want to trust my life to some electrical components but choices are limited.
All that said, my f150 has a throttle controlled by a cable. It sticks at idle and I have to pound the gas pedal to get it past the sticking point which isn't always so safe either cause it surges forward when I hit the gas. Sometime I need to lube the cable. Ford won't do it for free since it is out of warranty. Probably do that when I fix the broken exhaust manifold bolt that was a common problem with 5.4L engines. The last thing I'll fix is the intermittant odometer due to a bad solder joint on the instrument panels (another ford factory problem).
No where in my statement did I say anything about a one second delay.
All I can speak for is my Prius. At the "exact same time" I hit the brake pedal, the brakes are being applied. I can feel the brakes engaging when I hit the pedal. No delay on mine. No rationalization there, I'm speaking from actual experience. And I don't run red lights either, don't know where you got that from.
But apparently you so sound like you are speaking from experience so you must own a Prius and have experienced a one second delay between pressing the pedal and when the brakes engage. My advice to you then is that you should quit driving yours and get yours towed to the shop ASAP for repair.
I've had more problems with Ford, Chevy, and Pontiac anti-lock brakes than anything else. Nothing worse than driving on ice and snow when you can't trust what those anti-lock brakes are going to do. Nothing worse than letting off the gas to slow down a long time before a stop sign and then when applying the brakes they start stuttering so much you have no control over them. Before anti-lock brakes, most of us in snow country knew not to drive fast, to slow down long before a corner, and how to tap the brakes in a controlled stop.
On my 2000 ford f150, the factory didn't screw in one of the front caliper mounting bolts. So the caliper was shifting when applied. Found it out when the brakes failed prematurely (but after warranty) and the one pad was wore down on one end and not the other. But I fixed two birds there cause I must have not have matched up the magnet deal when I put the rotor on so the anti-lock brakes don't work on it now anyway.
I will say that I don't trust anything that has to do with steering, braking, transmission shifting, or the gas pedal that is electronically controlled by computer and not directly connected with linkage. I'd rather deal with bent linkage that crummy electrical computer parts that can fail at the drop of a hat or due to some electromagnetic interference. Unfortunately all the companies are using electrical computer stuff. I had a vcr that failed 1 day after the 90 day warranty. Probably lightning but I still don't want to trust my life to some electrical components but choices are limited.
All that said, my f150 has a throttle controlled by a cable. It sticks at idle and I have to pound the gas pedal to get it past the sticking point which isn't always so safe either cause it surges forward when I hit the gas. Sometime I need to lube the cable. Ford won't do it for free since it is out of warranty. Probably do that when I fix the broken exhaust manifold bolt that was a common problem with 5.4L engines. The last thing I'll fix is the intermittant odometer due to a bad solder joint on the instrument panels (another ford factory problem).
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Let us NOT forget either that the introduction of the underpriced, Japanese made cars is what forced the U.S. companies lower their standards and use second rate materials in the first place, just to remain competitive. It works BOTH ways.
i know yall all having a great ole time bashin Toyota but tell me something...when did the big 3 ever STOP selling cars voluntarily when they discovered a problem???
when i was still working for the L/M dealership,we had brand new cars out on the lot with known problems...Ford rep wouldnt honor warranty until customer complained AFTER it was bought.
my '06 Tacoma has been recalled because of a supposed floor mat issue...i cant even get my floor mat out to knock dirt off it because its so secure...whoever managed to get theirs loose enuff to get it under gas pedal really worked at it.
when i was still working for the L/M dealership,we had brand new cars out on the lot with known problems...Ford rep wouldnt honor warranty until customer complained AFTER it was bought.
my '06 Tacoma has been recalled because of a supposed floor mat issue...i cant even get my floor mat out to knock dirt off it because its so secure...whoever managed to get theirs loose enuff to get it under gas pedal really worked at it.
I don't buy that for a minute. USA companies got away with a lot until they got called on it - by better imported products. And it wasn't just cars and trucks. Same applies to small engine and power equipment. Briggs & Sratton, for example, sold much better engines in Europe that they did here. Why? Because we are a throw-away society.
But when Honda came into the small engine market and outlasted Briggs engines 2 to 1, things changed fast.
By your reasoning, there would of been a big drop in quality in USA cars when imports got popular. That is NOT what happened in general. US cars retained the status quo, and many imports were shown to be much better. Typical US rig was considered "risky" at 60K miles and worn out by 100K. A typical Toyota and Datsun still ran fine at 200K. Some imports were worse also, e.g. Lancia, Peugot, Fiat, Borgard, Hillman, Morris Gargages, Trimumph, etc. What did happen is . . . people were finding out that imported cars were lasting much longer than the average US rigs.
If USA rigs had cost-cutting problems, much of that was due to inflated Union wages - with people making money WAY above thier skill levels.
The import makers were hungry, and the USA makers fat, spoiled, and lazy. Same sort of syndrome occurs in any business over time. And maybe, it's happening a bit with Toyota now.
But when Honda came into the small engine market and outlasted Briggs engines 2 to 1, things changed fast.
By your reasoning, there would of been a big drop in quality in USA cars when imports got popular. That is NOT what happened in general. US cars retained the status quo, and many imports were shown to be much better. Typical US rig was considered "risky" at 60K miles and worn out by 100K. A typical Toyota and Datsun still ran fine at 200K. Some imports were worse also, e.g. Lancia, Peugot, Fiat, Borgard, Hillman, Morris Gargages, Trimumph, etc. What did happen is . . . people were finding out that imported cars were lasting much longer than the average US rigs.
If USA rigs had cost-cutting problems, much of that was due to inflated Union wages - with people making money WAY above thier skill levels.
The import makers were hungry, and the USA makers fat, spoiled, and lazy. Same sort of syndrome occurs in any business over time. And maybe, it's happening a bit with Toyota now.
BC, not talking about YOU running a red light. Talking about your safety when your car travels the 88 feet waiting for braking as the crossing red light runner continues to travel. That is true that you didn't mention the one second delay. I said, Google the news.
"Toyota said Thursday that the Prius problem is a "disconnect" in the vehicle's complex anti-lock brake system that causes less than a one-second lag before the brakes start to work. At 60 mph, though, a vehicle will have traveled nearly another 90 feet before the brakes begin to take hold.
The company also said it changed the braking system software in January for vehicles built since then. But it has yet to determine how to fix the brakes of vehicles already on the road."
Agreed BC, I have a 2010 Prius bought last July and also have had no brake problems.
I was on a Prius owners site last night, the talk was all about the Prius brake problem.
Most owners had no problem, but the few that did always mentioned two basic situations where the "no brakes " thing happened. The road was either wet /dusty or very rough.
One fellow who has real nuts and bolts experience with the things says the "problem" is people overdriving the Prius hard slick tires.
The Prius comes with low rolling resistance tires for best MPG, they roll easy, but run high pressure, have a hard rubber compound and are on a very light weight car. Slick or very rough roads bounce the hard tires off the road enough to lose traction. When the wheels slip, the ABS system does what it is supposed to do, release the brakes enough so the wheels keep turning and steering traction is maintained.
This guy said that for Prius owners who drive them that hard, he replaces the tires with a softer rubber compound that has more traction and no more "no brakes" complaints. They sacrifice a bit of MPG, but have better braking ability if the owner drives hard or in very slick / rough (washboard dirt roads) conditions.
This guy works exclusivly with Toyota in general and does performance mods to Prius also, so sounds like an educated, hands on explanation.
I was on a Prius owners site last night, the talk was all about the Prius brake problem.
Most owners had no problem, but the few that did always mentioned two basic situations where the "no brakes " thing happened. The road was either wet /dusty or very rough.
One fellow who has real nuts and bolts experience with the things says the "problem" is people overdriving the Prius hard slick tires.
The Prius comes with low rolling resistance tires for best MPG, they roll easy, but run high pressure, have a hard rubber compound and are on a very light weight car. Slick or very rough roads bounce the hard tires off the road enough to lose traction. When the wheels slip, the ABS system does what it is supposed to do, release the brakes enough so the wheels keep turning and steering traction is maintained.
This guy said that for Prius owners who drive them that hard, he replaces the tires with a softer rubber compound that has more traction and no more "no brakes" complaints. They sacrifice a bit of MPG, but have better braking ability if the owner drives hard or in very slick / rough (washboard dirt roads) conditions.
This guy works exclusivly with Toyota in general and does performance mods to Prius also, so sounds like an educated, hands on explanation.
First, JMOR, for the record, I wasn't aware of the 1 second delay complaint by others but I'll look into it and watch for it. Thanks. My wife drives most the time anyway.
Jon, you bring up an interesting issue though.
Apparently the one second delay is connected with the antilock brake system. May well be, I haven't driven it in an antilock brake situation where they need to kick in. I've been driving it on the ice and snow this winter and it has braked allright without the antilock kicking in with that characteristic brake stutter. So I can't say one way or another on that issue but doesn't about any car have a delay of some sort caused by the antilock system kicking in?
You have raised an interesting comment about the hard slick tires which explains a number of things.
We just had ours in for the 30,000 mile oil change and the service manager called and said it needed new tires as they were wore down to the wear bars. He then went into a long sales pitch to get my wife to buy new tires from them. She called me and I called him. I told him to forget it cause why would I want to replace dealer/mfr tires that got poor tire wear with another set of dealer/mfr tires. I checked the tires when we picked it up and they were "not" down to the tire wear indicators. Close, but not to the extreme that he told my wife when he gave her the sales pitch and the same sales pitch he gave me when I called him back. I figured he was trying to take advantage of a woman with his scare tactics about bald tires so accordingly we won't take it back there anymore.
One of the things I've noticed about this car is that the wind blows it all over the road and a lot worse than our pickup or expedition or any other small car we've owned. Now I know why, the hard slick tires.
We have plenty of washboard roads that will flip a car in a hurry but don't drive it much on those. I'll have to watch it from now on.
Guess I'll replace the tires with a good all season tire with lots of tread depth and grooved for water and snow dispersal.
It would probably do better with running in the gear that allows engine braking. Probably affect the gas mileage though. I've tried it both ways on flat roads and decided I could adjust and use the brakes a little more without the engine engaged gear. Every car made seems to go through front brakes fairly quickly anyway.
I wonder if your toyota mod guy has a way to allow you to drive for a while such as a few miles before the engine comes on to charge the batteries. The best we've done is baby it along for 3 blocks at 15 mph before the engine kicked in.
Jon, you bring up an interesting issue though.
Apparently the one second delay is connected with the antilock brake system. May well be, I haven't driven it in an antilock brake situation where they need to kick in. I've been driving it on the ice and snow this winter and it has braked allright without the antilock kicking in with that characteristic brake stutter. So I can't say one way or another on that issue but doesn't about any car have a delay of some sort caused by the antilock system kicking in?
You have raised an interesting comment about the hard slick tires which explains a number of things.
We just had ours in for the 30,000 mile oil change and the service manager called and said it needed new tires as they were wore down to the wear bars. He then went into a long sales pitch to get my wife to buy new tires from them. She called me and I called him. I told him to forget it cause why would I want to replace dealer/mfr tires that got poor tire wear with another set of dealer/mfr tires. I checked the tires when we picked it up and they were "not" down to the tire wear indicators. Close, but not to the extreme that he told my wife when he gave her the sales pitch and the same sales pitch he gave me when I called him back. I figured he was trying to take advantage of a woman with his scare tactics about bald tires so accordingly we won't take it back there anymore.
One of the things I've noticed about this car is that the wind blows it all over the road and a lot worse than our pickup or expedition or any other small car we've owned. Now I know why, the hard slick tires.
We have plenty of washboard roads that will flip a car in a hurry but don't drive it much on those. I'll have to watch it from now on.
Guess I'll replace the tires with a good all season tire with lots of tread depth and grooved for water and snow dispersal.
It would probably do better with running in the gear that allows engine braking. Probably affect the gas mileage though. I've tried it both ways on flat roads and decided I could adjust and use the brakes a little more without the engine engaged gear. Every car made seems to go through front brakes fairly quickly anyway.
I wonder if your toyota mod guy has a way to allow you to drive for a while such as a few miles before the engine comes on to charge the batteries. The best we've done is baby it along for 3 blocks at 15 mph before the engine kicked in.
K
Kruse
Guest
Obvioiusly somebody disagrees.
It was announced that 270,000 Prius cars will be recalled.
It was announced that 270,000 Prius cars will be recalled.
I wonder who does more damage to an American products reputation, one who points out problems that need to be fixed to regain our status, or one who refuses to admit there are any problems while our jobs,reputation, exports continue to fall because of high price and poor quality ?
As with Toyota, the first part of fixing a problem is admitting it exists.
As to the Prius brake problem, in 8 months of Prius ownership I have not seen it. There is no delay in applying the brakes unless the tires have no traction.
I have heard this problem on any ABS equipped car refered to as "ABS stupidity", IE The owner Thinking that he can now jam on the brakes on a slick wet / icy /sandy / washboard road and the car will stop instantly.
Not so Icabod, all the ABS will do is keep you from locking up the wheels so you can maintain directional control.
An experienced Toyota Tec who also works with performance mods to the Prius, says the low rolling resistance tires that Prius and most other hybrids use is the problem, not the ABS brake system.
The Prius uses these low rolling resistance tires that have a hard rubber compound, high pressure and are on a very light car.
Under poor conditions, this type of tire has less traction than most tires. When the driver over drives these tires in poor road conditions and locks up the wheels, the ABS brakes do exactly what they are designed to do, unlock until the wheels start turning so the car can maintain steering and directional control.
This Toyota tec said that for drivers that insist on overdriving the traction capability of the original Prius tires, he replaces them with a softer compound tire that hurts MPG a bit but has more traction. He claims that all the "brake" problems go away with the change to a tire with a little more grip.
Time will tell, but it appears right now that the problem is as likely between the drivers ears, as in the ABS brake system. If it is in the brakes, they will fix it.
If it is the drivers, well you can't fix stupid.
As with Toyota, the first part of fixing a problem is admitting it exists.
As to the Prius brake problem, in 8 months of Prius ownership I have not seen it. There is no delay in applying the brakes unless the tires have no traction.
I have heard this problem on any ABS equipped car refered to as "ABS stupidity", IE The owner Thinking that he can now jam on the brakes on a slick wet / icy /sandy / washboard road and the car will stop instantly.
Not so Icabod, all the ABS will do is keep you from locking up the wheels so you can maintain directional control.
An experienced Toyota Tec who also works with performance mods to the Prius, says the low rolling resistance tires that Prius and most other hybrids use is the problem, not the ABS brake system.
The Prius uses these low rolling resistance tires that have a hard rubber compound, high pressure and are on a very light car.
Under poor conditions, this type of tire has less traction than most tires. When the driver over drives these tires in poor road conditions and locks up the wheels, the ABS brakes do exactly what they are designed to do, unlock until the wheels start turning so the car can maintain steering and directional control.
This Toyota tec said that for drivers that insist on overdriving the traction capability of the original Prius tires, he replaces them with a softer compound tire that hurts MPG a bit but has more traction. He claims that all the "brake" problems go away with the change to a tire with a little more grip.
Time will tell, but it appears right now that the problem is as likely between the drivers ears, as in the ABS brake system. If it is in the brakes, they will fix it.
If it is the drivers, well you can't fix stupid.
Your first paragraph says a lot. I had 3 Chevy trucks affect by the fuel tank recall. By the time GM had drug their feet and actually got around to settling the issue, I had long replaced all 3 trucks, and I usually keep my trucks for 7-8 years. My expereince with Japanese made equipment has been good. When they have a problem, they recall and fix quickly, but quietly. American companies tend to deny and then drag it out. World of difference.
cadet trooper
Well-known Member
JMOR, you need to do some homework man and review all the recalls and silent recalls in the history of American vehicles. There are so many they are too numerous to mention. I for one don't mind a problem I just want to know how they react to the problem. I will list a few for example of which I have a first hand experience GMC tucks gray and blue paint flaking off ( silent recall). Next is exploding fan blades on the S-15 GMC mine went before the recall came out. Ford F-150 steering shaft problem mine was called in and found to be near failure. Ford F-150 seat belt retractor failure mine still does not function properly I just gave up. My oldest sons 1995 blazer has one of the most recall records in the history of American vehicles and he's had problems with all of them. That is just a small list of problems I've owned 25 new Americans vehicles in my driving history the least have been my Ford F-150 and Toyota Camry that's why I'm on my 14th year with the F-150 and my wife has leased her 2nd Camry.
The Prius system as is, does not have enough battery capacity to run very far at speed. The plug in Prius hybrid to be introduced soon, has a much larger battery and can run quite a distance at normal speeds before the gas engine has to run.
Our rural electric coop has an older Prius, converted to a plug in hybrid by an aftermarket company. A "google" search for Prius plug in conversion may show whoever is doing the conversions.
Our rural electric coop has an older Prius, converted to a plug in hybrid by an aftermarket company. A "google" search for Prius plug in conversion may show whoever is doing the conversions.
But why are you paying three times the price because it is a Honda and you don't complain. I can by a couple other kinds for that same price. They have a good motor by not that good. And just think that extra money is going oversees. If Honda is so good why aren't building that at an average price?
hoosier boy
Member
Yea my brakes failed in a 1998 Winstar this spring. I had the van in the dealers twice before this - the pedal froze in the up position. I was going between stops and couldnt apply the brakes, pedal would not go at all. I grabbed the emergency brake and drug it to a stop. Couldnt reproduce it but traded it right away, did warn the dealer that traded for it.
OK, I did it! My 'homework', that is. It is all a great big 'ol left wing conspiracy! BO has failed at every dumb a$$ move so far & now he HOPES to save face by bashing the crap out of the Toyota company & shifting buyers to HIS Government Motors company. I may be slow occasionally, but now I got it!
Have to agree with you, i spent a lot of time and money nursing my GM/Ford/Chrysler's to 150k miles, until my Honda blew by 100k, then 200k, then 280k, until the road salt ate holes in it. The guy who picked it up, started it up, and drove it to his house. First time i ever had a car that would run when i sold it. GM and Chrysler dont exist in my book (checkbook).
Geo-TH,In
Well-known Member
Does anyone remember when Harley Davidson almost went under because the imported bikes were much better and cheaper? Harley had to clean up its act. Just like the American car companies are learning from Toyota and Honda. Make a better car or go under. It is too bad that whenever a new product is introduced, that the consumer does the R&D on the produce.
cadet trooper
Well-known Member
Not a problem JMOR I guess in summary with the advancement of technology it is hard to keep up with every little problem or serious problem so as a lot of previous posts have mentioned it's not so much the problem as how it is handled. I'm certainly not bashing any manufacturer and would love to say that I don't buy anything but USA made but you have to admit Honda and Toyota have done their part to keep the American economy going even though profits go to Japan but that is a part of global trade. FYI as I speak I just bought a 2009 Harley Davidson Ultra with 28 miles on it and got a recall on a gas tank mount issue which could could cause death or serious injury but I'm OK with that because they are dealing with it at no charge. Have a good one. CT
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy