Pasture renovation

I recently bought 50 acres and it needs some work. It was leased out for cattle grazing for last 15 years, but little maintenance done, some briar thickets, brush, etc. I am in the process of brush hogging it down, and looking at pasture renovators. I'm getting all sorts of conflicting opinions.
Some recommend the Hay King or Aerway type renovators. I'm sure they do a good job, but everyone I've talked to say they worked well, but once they've used them, the equipment just sits. And they are not a cheap piece of equipment to buy to just use a few times and let sit.
Others tell me to forget these things and get a good disk, it will do just as much good. Use some sort of drag after it to smooth it down.
Then I had a guy show me he had a simple sub-soiler type tool that did just as good as the renovators for a fraction of the cost. The shanks were about 10" or 12" deep. Doesn't look to me like it would do much good, it seems kind of shallow and only had shanks a foot apart.
I've seen a chisel plow for sale locally, it looks like it would really get down and break up the soil. I've never used a chisel plow, would it be overkill for this? I have a 4020, how many shanks will it pull? Could I follow this with a drag and get a reasonably smooth pasture or would I need to lightly disk and drag afterwards? It doesn't have gauge wheels on it, is this a big drawback?
Right now I'm leaning towards a disk followed by a drag, as I would expect I'd get more long term use out of a disk.
Soil is nice mix of sand and clay, just tromped down by years of cow hooves, too many weeds and no fertilizer for years - except what the cows provided.
What do you suggest?

Don't know exactly where you are but i'm in brazoria county disc works for us disc it straight then cross disc from two different directions.

Mowing and dirt work will not remove perennial weeds especially dew berries, black berries, green brier and other noxious weeds.

Before you do anything, talk to your county ag agent. We have spent the last 3 yrs recovering our 7.5 acre coastal field and you don't want to waste time & $$$$. Your local ag agent will be able to help you set up a program to accomplish what you need in the most efficient and economical manner.

Here's the number for the Titus County (northeast Tx) ag agent. 903-572-0261. They can probably give you the name and number of the ag agent for your county.

For every minute you spend talking to your ag agent, you will save at least an hour of unproductive work and/or money on equipment that won't do what you need.

Best to just hire somebody with a big 4wd and ripper , bacause that pasture is going to be harder than concrete . We redone one with a moldboard plow and ended up going thru 40lbs of shear bolts ,then disked it up good . those old cows really stomp the soil tight .

Using a subsoiler-like renovator, cutting slots into the old sod every foot 10-12" deep and then adding lime and/or fertilizer has done wonders to old pastures in my area. You don't always need to tear everything up. Still doesnt' solve the noxious weed and brush problems, though.

I know what I'd do up here in cold, wet, deep clay soiled Minnesota, but I bet that wouldn't be right for down there in hot dry Texas?

Are you trying to save the grass that is there & just make it better, or are you basically starting from scratch & reseeding?

If starting from scratch, glyspohate (roundup) is historically cheap right now, I'd spray it hard about a month apart 2 times to kill off all the bad perannual weeds. Makes life a lot easier. Spray green things to kill them, glyphosate has no soil activity, only kills green stuff.

A chisel plow is a primary tillage tool, like a molboard plow, you need more than a harrow to level it. Takes about 12 hp per shank 'here' more in hard packed ground.

As to the rest, anything I say probably doesn't fit your situation.

--->Paul

Do what Nancy said and you will get best results with minium labor and expense.

depending what kind of brush you got,a disc aint gonna cut thru root mass...yaupon and weisache have tremendous wide spread roots and tough as cable...root plowing followed by discing and then dragging it would prob work ok.
i do dozer work over here in Colorado County...got a freind that farms rice...if he aint busy i get him to run this monster disc he has over fresh cleared land...i aint sure he didnt make this disc...never seen anything like it anywhere else.

Let us know what your agent says. You don't say what kind of grass you have.

I'd think about burning it this winter to get rid of the brush before it greens up enough to where it won't carry a fire. Run over it with a spring tooth or disk to break up the surface a little and not real deep just like dethatching or plugging a lawn. Fertilize after a soil test. Over seed any bald spots. Then spray roundup on any weeds in the spring.

Before you use a sub-soiler drill down to see what you will be bringing up. On my place its called Bell-Pine and you sure don't want that stuff on the surface.
Walt

Last Jan. I bought a Hay King renovator and used it on 80 acres. We had been in 8 out of 10 years in drought. To make this short the renovator was the best thing I"ve ever used on pasture. Ran it from 7 in. to 15 in. deep and captured the rains very well. When spring arrived and on in to June you could see the difference in that 80 acres and the other 35 that I didn"t run on. Planed to run on some more this winter but it"s either been froze or to sloppy to use yet. Here you need the moisture to be on the high side to get the renovator to do the best job.

Subsoiler here makes a big hump that"ll stay there for years. I"ll never use a subsoiler on pasture again. The renovator just cut a slit. Doesn"t rough the field up.

If you use RU (glyphosate) make sure the grasses you want are still dormant. Otherwise, I would suggest Grazon because it does a good job and you don"t have to stop grazing the field after application.

had roughly same thing on a few acres had cousin spred turkey house manure lots of it before i was going to renovate rained could not get in field for a while was amazed at the grass returing 3 years later still no need to renovats just mow to keep any new brush down

Grazon and fertilizer should fix that pasture.

I have basically the same soil as you and I have had good luck with a good double disking, changining directions, then lime to test or 2.5 tons per acre, then fertilize, heavy on the phosphate, seed and dress with a weighted rotary hoe. Don"t skimp the seed or fertilizer, experience has taught me that its better and cheaper in the long run to do a few acres at a time the right way rather than do it all with out enough minerals. Enough seed and fertilize and the grass will out grow the weeds.

pends on the type of soil.. if you have clay or hard packed, renovators will allow water penatration and help a bunch.. if you have sandy loam or surgar sand, your wasting your time and money.

If you have a planted coastal field or kline field a renavator will go through and leave the field clean and flat, perfect for haying.

if you have a native field, a sub soiler will not hurt before you plant coastal, kline, world feeder, or whatever... but you would disc the field back to a flat condition before you sprig or plant.

after its planted, again a renovator will leave it flat and clean for haying. a subsoil will leave it full of rolls, hills and valleys unless you disc it out.

I have done it both ways pending on what kind of field it is.., whats planted, how much clay or hard pack.


sub soiling is almost as good a putting out fertilizer on an old barren,hard-packed field.

renovating early spring, adds deep moisture for grazing for 30 days longer in the summer during dry years. If you get lots of rain in the summer, renovating is not recommended or needed.

I had the same problem: I disc it up then forecasted my pasture seed, then after the pasture grass had came up I went and put down nitrogen what a difference it made.
JR Frye

TOR, Where are you located in East Texas. I use a HayKing pasture renovator and have excellent results. Do my hay meadows every year and the rest of the pastures about every 3 years. It has 7 shanks and I go about 8-10 in deep. Pull mine with a 5020 but your 4020 would pull it fine also.

Nancy is right on. Talk to your county agent. Lime and fertilizer may be all you need. If your's is like most E. Texas soils, you have a low ph (acidic) and need lime. Your agent is probably an Aggie, so make him earn his pay .... lol. (SHSU grad here). C.L.

You are right Nancy, I meant to say some type of weed killer such as 24D. And unless he is wanting to overseed or grow a hay crop for cutting, I wouldn't put any equipment on the surface. The buffalo and cattle have been trampling the ground for thousands of years, I wouldn't worry about compaction now for grazing ground. SDPete had the basic solution although heavy brush may be taken care of quicker with a burning. Get rid of the weeds and add some fertilizer and the native grasses will come back.

Spend the money on fencing to help avoid spot grazing by rotating cattle but then 50 acres won't hold than many cows to start with.

For my brome pasture, my agent said to give it some nitrogen for a couple years in a row and it will take off and burn the brushy stuff and plum thickets during the winter.

Google Gen-til or genesis tillage. I have one, and it works wonders at making the rain you get penetrate better. It is similar to an Aerway, but penetrates without all the weight that a Aerway needs. Aerway reversed a blue print in their original design, changing an angle of the tine 3 degrees in the wrong direction (6 degrees away from the correct angle), Gen-till corrected this mistake.