Question for the folks in cold climates

In our area we only use water in tractor tires but folks buy tractors from up north that have had calcium chloride in the tires and they often have problems with rims rusting out. Why is ethylene glycol or some other non-corrosive substance not used to keep the ballast from freezing? I've often wondered that and never talked to anyone who knew.

A bit of diluted -45 windshield washer fluid mixed with water. Works great and no rust.
Those people that say cacl is fine "if taken care of" when cast weights,beet juice or washer fluid could be used.
They would be fired in the nuclear or aviation industry.

Mixture of calcium chloride is denser there fore more weight in tire. There are many different fluids and products used but years ago it was mostly calcium chloride. Oh, we've had to thaw out a few tires in the shop with just water also.

We do have rim gaurd, which weights 10.7 to 11lbs. per gallon, its non toxic and Biodegradable. Freeze rated to -30 -35 I think.

Today people are using alternatives. This summer I installed windshield washer solution in the tires of a two-wheeled BCS tractor, and yes I used the winter blend.

I expect it was all about cost from many decades. Which has been historically cheaper, calcium chloride or antifreeze?

There are thousands and thousands of tractors with calcium chloride in them. It is also mentioned is just about every tractor owners manual ever printed. It's not like you put it in the tire and it immediately starts rusting the rim. You put in a new valve core and a good valve cap and 99% of the time, you have no problems. There's tractor's 40 years old that have had it in since new. Dave

Well up till just a few years ago CACL was and is still the cheap way to go as in less then $50 per tire is you do the work your self. As for Anti-freeze and other things it can add up fast on the $$ and some things if you have a leak will kill animals etc and that in turn means more $$ down the drain. I switched to WSWF and that works well and is about $1-2 per gal.

Calcium cloride is the best product for the job.

It's cheap, I got a Ford 7700 with it in all 4 tires, that is a lot of gallons, it was minus 31 degrees the other day, minus 9 when i had to feed bales - 'a few gallons of wiper fluid' ain't gonna cut it for me!

It's heavier than water. Salt combines with water 7 becomes denser, something like 11 lbs per gallon, vs 8 for water, or 6 for some of the other fluids some here like to try. If you want weight, get some weight, not something lighter than water!

It's non-toxic. You spill a tire full of antifreeze or the cheap washer fluid 'here' and the Minnesota EPA is going to run you one heck of a bill. Sure it runs off all the roads in car accidents but that's ok it's city folk on concrete; but this here is out in a wild, where we need to protect the ducks and beaver and the groundwater, you are looking at a big issue if you try using toxic substances in a place they are not designed for. Aside from my grumbling, I would not be comfortable with that many gallons of toxic antifreeze waiting to spring a leak around my pets & groundwater, seriously. CC will kill the grass, but it is not toxic to the environment.

I've got fluid in 3 tractors, all rears and the one has the fronts as well. I'm considering what to do with the 5000 I got last year, it's aweful light in the rear pulling - and stopping wagons around. My tire people would be real upset with me if they worked on my tires & I has some other fluid in there. Mess up their service truck as they pump my junk out.... They wouldn't be happy, and rightly so.

A lot of the products mentioned aren't really so good for rubber long term; and don't provide a whole lot of protection to someone in the deep freeze like me, need 50/50 mix or more - who can afford that?

If you use the tractor, use the right product. CC or the beet juice. Anything else is junk, make a mess of things, bad deal.

If you are just parading the machine & leaving it sit in the shed, then why use any fluid at all - use air. But if you need the weight, use the proper fluid.

If you look through the archives, this topic is one of my pet peeves. As always, to each their own, this is just my opinion - from the cold north.

--->Paul

It's not the calcium chloride that rusts the rims. It's the moisture from the condensation that builds up with the temperature changes, Like the frost on the outside of a gas tank on a day when the gas is colder than the outside air.

We are NOT in the nuclear or aviation business!! Calcium chloride is the most cost effective way to add weight. Its been used for decades and never causes a problem if tires are maintained properly. Beet juice is likely O.K. but cost about 6 times as much....mot very cost effective IMHO

Well we have tractors from over 55 years with the rims that came on them new. If you fix a leak right away it helps keep the rust down.
Now if the other fluids are only good for -25-35 then it would suck to have to thump down the road or through the pasture with frozen tires in ND at -40 or more below zero. So that is why Calcium chloride is used.

I can tell that by the acceptance of sloppy substandanrd workmanship by some folk.And contempt for safety.
In any and every application. Here are five rules that reduce equipment deterioration/damage and improve safety of personal.
The big one "Elimination of Hazard" is what applies here. Just don't have the hazardous material at all or substitute for something that isn't hazardous.
As far as needing every extra pound of ballast possible? Just what are you doing pushing the ability of equipment to the max and into the failure point in performance. That's were we find people getting into trouble. Ask any fireman who pulls people out of wrecks.

Identify the Hazard

Eliminate the Hazard

Control the Hazard

Protect from Hazard

Minimize the Injury

-45 rated windshield washer fluid? You will never find anything like that, used to be able to get -25 rated fluid but no longer, the -20 rated stuff freezes at +20* on the windshield.

I am sooo glad we arent in those two business.
Last I checked the aviation business as a composite hasnt turned a profit since its day of conception and they quit building new nuclear power plants.
A little more common sense and a little less BS in this world and we would all be better off. Calcium works just fine, always has, always will.
bill

If the tube starts leaking fix it, CC won't hurt steel if it is in a rubber tube. Cast weights are great but it takes alot of them to equal 100 gals. of CC. Dad put new tires on his 970 Case years ago, tire people said he wouldn't need fluid with new tires, what a mistake. This was pulling a 15' bwa disk, 16' digger, 10' chisel plow, definately not over working it. When I put new tires on my 1070 this fall I put the fluid back in. I wish I had the time to visit some of the "perfect farms" on here.

Calcium Chloride does not rust wheel rims----- Procrastination does.

The main reason for CaCl is that it is what was found to work first and it still does. As others have said CaCl doesn't cause problems, leaks do. Wheel weights are becoming more popular bor ballast. Some tractors were over ballasted in the past. That could depend a bit on tractor usage and average field speed.

It used to be the cheapest way to do it, that's why. Now? I'm not so sure. Some day calcium chloride will probably be classified a toxic chemical, due to all the water wells that have been ruined forever from it. Also all the trees killed.

A typical 12-24" farm tire loaded for cold weather needs:

27 gallons of water (75% fill) and 113 lbs of calcium (at least) - calcium costs $45 for each tire. 383 lbs. of weight added. If tubeless, takes a 90% fill and costs a bit more.

Do the same with rim-guard formula, and it will cost three times that. Around $135. Takes 38 gallons per tire and weighs 406 lbs.

Pure water (for warm areas) would be 32 gallons and add 320 lbs.

now now buick+dear is never wrong, don't hurt his feelings!!!!!!!

Not to start a war here, but if it was so hasardous why do the road crews use it everyday on the roads for Ice and Snow control. And another thing if you see a wet spot on your tire fix it and it will never rust the rim. USE COMMON SENSE

Our local Deere dealer once told me that putting in 6 gallons of anti freeze in each rear tire would be good enough for tractors her in Georgia. We don't get that many days of freezing weather here. A little anifreeze will help it from freezing.

I don't know where the "sloppy sub-standard workmanship" part comes from!! You are trying to completely change the discussion because you are losing the debate! Calcium chloride is not hazrdous when used appropriately...yes it will kill vegetation when applied in excess to the soil...But we are talking about using it in tractor tires. It is far less toxic to animal life than either windshield washer (ethanol/methanol) or antifreeze. It is a salt very similar to sodium chloride. It is cheap because it is a bi=product of soda ash, which is used in large quantities by the steel industry. Time has proven that it is an ideal ballast for ag equipment. Get over it!

Why do road crews use it? Because it's the cheapest way to treat icy and snowy roads. Also done in the summer to keep dust down on dirt roads. Do you actually think town governments (and road crews) sit around thinking about the environmental impact on water wells, maple trees, and cars and trucks getting ruined from salt?
Maybe where you come from, but I've yet to see it anywhere in the Northeast. One exception though. I've got land up in the Tug Hill Plateau that is more-or-less the snowmobile capital of NY. They don't use salt there on many roads, in an effort to keep highways snowcovered for snowmobiles. Funny thing though, they use lots of it on the same roads during the summer.

I know that here in New York, they use more and more salt every year, due the the State-taught "Clear Road" program. What that means is, any person should be able to drive like an idiot, even in the middle of a snow/ice storm. And, if that idiot gets into an accident, he/she gets to sue somebody for not keeping roads "safe."

There have already been entire villages that have lost use of their water wells forever, due to use of excess road salt. It is certainly no big "secret" anymore then cancer from cigarettes ever was.

As things are right now, if a town government told the public that salt was getting cut back and they might have to stay home during snowstorms, or drive more prudently, they'd be complaining, ad nauseum.

And, if the town government said they wanted to use a safer alternative to calcium chloride that costs much more, and all our taxes have to be raised, people would be complaining again.

So, what will probably happen is, road salt will come out of use slowly, over time - just like tobacco, and even fat in my Burger King hamburgers.

I don't know where the "sloppy sub-standard workmanship" part comes from!! You are trying to completely change the discussion because you are losing the debate! Calcium chloride is not hazrdous when used appropriately...yes it will kill vegetation when applied in excess to the soil...But we are talking about using it in tractor tires. It is far less toxic to animal life than either windshield washer (ethanol/methanol) or antifreeze. It is a salt very similar to sodium chloride. It is cheap because it is a bi=product of soda ash, which is used in large quantities by the steel industry. Time has proven that it is an ideal ballast for ag equipment. Get over it!
If you want to put beet juice, anti-freeze, windshield washer fluid or dog urine in your tires, go for it.....BUT DON'T BELITTLE THOSE OF US WHO USE THE TRIED, TRUE AND CHEAPER PRODUCT.

Obviously, it depends on what size tires are involved. 13-24" takes 32 gallons per tire. 15-28" takes 57 gallons, and a 20-38" takes 117 gallons per tire. Big difference.

I agree 100%. Why do people b@tch about having to buy a couple of new tractor rims every 50 years for $200 dollars each and then they go out and buy 22 inch rims and tires for the Chevy pickup and pay $2500 every 4 years to look cool! Calcium chloride is heavy and it works fine. They also dump 30,000 gallons of it on our country roads around here about every few miles in the summer. So not much to worry if you spill a cup or two. We had an oil well on our property that flooded 3 acres with calcium chloride and now it grows corn pretty well. It"s not nuclear waste.

Beet juice is the big thing here in Michigan anymore. They call it Rim Guard. Heavy,non corrosive,non freezing.

I agree with you that it is the cheapest. I also agree that they don't think of the environment. I live along a road that they use a lot of salt on and the brush grows real well and the grass is always green. In my part of the country I have never heard of anyones well being hurt by road salt but it may have happened. The only time that I seen where the salt killed trees was when a farmer let the creamery dump whey down a ravine and it killed all the trees but that was over 30 years ago. They also dumped 2 loads a day for almost 2 years before it killed the trees. I also might add that they cleaned the trees out of the ravine and now they farm the ground.

Lots of -45C washer fluid here and -49C on occasion.

I guess you can cut corners and that's ok. Now lets cut quality control on the fuel you purchase, the food your purchase and the medical care you receive.
What? That's different?

At one time there only was calcium chloride for ballast back in the bad old days. Back when it was common for a too small tractor to be over ballasted to struggle along with too heavy a load.
Since Great Grand Pappy, Grand Pappy,and Pappy used the stuff. It has to still be the best???
Of course tire shops which are represented by at least one person on here.They wish every single tire out there was fulled with calcium chloride. Salt water makes them a tidy living.

Our nuclear plats were making a great profit until our politicians took a payoff and brought in some ex US navy nuclear donkeys into the system.
They only know how to run single unit with a skeleton crew. Then call in outside contractors for service during fueling outages.
Then the hired experts stated yelling at staff. They seemed to think they were still on a 688 Class skulking around in some Soviet harbor.
Our four and eight unit stations ran fine and since we had so many units. We had our own dedicated outage crews. No down or wasted time as they just rotated unit to unit on site.
Now the experts came in and spent a fortune getting rid of trained staff with early retirement packages. Then brought in outside contractors, some of who never worked in the nuclear industry.
The price gouging,double,triple billing, shoddy workmanship that requires re-work. And the extended outages are running up the price of power. As the outside contractors rake in a fortune at the rate payers expense.
When our own people did the work, there was no incentive de-fraud our own company.
No wonder your nuclear industry went down the tubes. Then ours now as we adopted the same management style.

Much depends on what they are using for "salt", what the soil drainage is like, what kind of growing season you have, what your soil PH is, and what types of trees. Around here in NY, we have acid soil and hard maples are the first to die from road salt. Salt is sodium chloride mined from under the great lakes.

As far as never heard of water wells going bad? I don't know what to say to that. There have been entire villages in NY with ruined wells. In fact, State of NY had a special vote last year, to break its own constitution and allow a village in the Adirondacks to drill new wells on forest preserve land, since all the town wells were ruined by road salt.

Back to trees, the most senstive to road salt are:

red maple (Acer rubrum)
sugar maple (A. saccharum)
hackberry (Celtis occidentalis)
black walnut (Juglans nigra)
Norway spruce (Picea abies)
white spruce (P. glauca)
white pine (Pinus strobus)
Douglas fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii)
pin oak (Quercus palustris)
littleleaf linden (Tilia cordata)