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2500/3500HD gas mileage

R

Rick Kr

Well-known Member
Its time to replace my 89 1-ton.

I am looking at either a 2500 or 3500 crew cab Chevy SRW with a 4:10 gear and 6.0L gas 4x4 WT, just tilt, air and cruise.

Does anybody have one of these w/the 4:10 and can tell me their mileage? My 89 gets 10.5mpg empty at 55-60mph. I am hoping for better. But hear of people only at 11-12mpg.

The duramax/allison is another $8200. I was very fortunate in my old job as I got a new duramax 3500 every year. Never had a gas engine to see how thirsty it is.

I move my tree spade about 6-8 times a year. With the gas I won't be able to move my dozer, just my tree spade. spade/trailer 12,000lb. dozer/trailer 14,500. Gas will handle 12,300 trailer, diesel 14,900 according to the manual. I have seen people w/a lot more than that behind a diesel, am I missing something as far as how much weight I can have on a gooseneck?

Thanks,
Rick
 
Just did a trip from the Midwest to Seattle and back with a 2500 HD 6 liter. Average about 70 MPH on I-90. Got 11.5 to 12 mpg going out and 13 mpg coming back. At 55-60 mph, mileage should be above 13.

Don
 
We have a 2005 2500HD with a 6 liter, 5 speed manual, 4wd, 4 door extra cab, 8 ft bed, air, cruise, work truck. The absolute best we have ever gotten is 15 MPG, the worst is 9.5 MPG (75 MPH pulling 10K). I can"t comment on the towing limits, but I don"t understand why the Deisel would be rated higher, unless it has better brakes etc.
 
I have a 89 3500, the old body style cab, dump rack, w/ turbo 400 tranny, throttle body inj, 350 4x4 with 4.56 axle ratio. 8 miles to the gallon! empty weight is 7000lbs.
 
The difference between 10.5 and 12mpg is neither here nor there.You are purchasing a high powered,heavy,big,HD truck. Fuel mileage is not a 1st consideration.
You will wear the truck out and still be dollars ahead purchasing gas instead of diesel for $ per mile spent. The difference in purchase price,servicing costs and the higher price for fuel. It just doesn't make a business case for diesel in 95% of the applications.
Driving a diesel does provide a ego boost for some operators however.
My 6.0 crew cab 4X4 averages 13mpg US on while putting around locally.
 
2005 3500 SRW 4x4 automatic tranny, 4:10 rearend. Used mostly for farm hauling. With a heavily loaded stock trailer or 20' flat bed with a 9000# tractor on it, will get about 8 mpg. Empty, about 12-13. My 2000 Dodge 2500, 5.9, 4x4 auto did a little better.
 
I get 8miles pulling my 30ft 5th wheel camper going 60 with average wind. Get about 11 pulling 16ft. livestock trailer or 16 ft flatbed with average 5,000 # load. Get 13 with nothing on driving 60 blocking traffic in the right lane on the e-way. Has been a good truck so far but the gas milage sucks. Mine is a 2500 HD with 410 gear 6 liter gas and 6 speed tranney with the extended cab. Mine is one of the first new body style models that came out in late 07. My friends with the newer models are averaging about 2miles per gallon better. They say the computors are programed differently.
 
I get 13mpg with my F250 powerstroke pulling a 16' trailer that weights 2000lbs empty, plus equipment. I dont have it for a ego boost,lol but we do have a lot of hills around here in NY and the diesel just pulls better than the 350ci. Also when I got the F250, DIESEL WAS $1.73 per gallon. Diesel may not be for everyone, but for my main pulling truck, Id never go back to gas. A little less maintenance with the diesel too, so far.
 
The 350cu" was a gutless wonder back in it's day. Just like the Ford engines were gutless as well in the same era.
Lets compare apples with apples such as the late model 6.0L engines with the Ford engines of the same year.
Stock to stock the gasser all other things identical could very well be up the hill first.
You are not promoting racing on hills with a trailer are you?
 
If it was just computer programming. GM could have saved themselves a lot of $$$ in "CAFE" penalties by a simple low $$$ reprogramming of the 2001-2006 trucks.And increased the corporate average mileage.
Your buddy is full of beans.
 
I have a 2003 HD2500 set up that way and I pull a 35 ft 5th wheel and get anywheres from 7 to 10 mpg,I dont baby it,I drive with traffic,sometimes going 75 but have never noticed a difference at different MPH. just driving empty I get 13.but I sure like the torque. I understand the new ones get up to 20mpg empty,
 
Some were gutless for sure but some had good performance, I had a 72 350 that was quite fast,and GM made some 350s that put out over 300 hp,but in 73 they sure didnt have any power in the trucks
 
Mileage IS important. You drive your gasser, at 9 mpg, and I'll use my Dodge CDT which gets 15 mpg loaded to 12k.
After just 70k miles I have spent 13k for fuel, and you have spent 22k for gas.

Gordo
 
I pull a 4500 lb. trailer with 12000 lbs. of cows in it with my 2000 3/4 ton with a 6.0 gas and my 89 with a 350 that's tweaked a little bit. They both handle it just fine so I think you could pull what you are talking about just fine. I wouldn't spend the extra for a diesel unless I putting a lot of miles on all the time. If I wanted an automatic I would get the allison, but I would prefer a 6 speed manual if they are still available that will save you money on the first cost and save you gas.
 
No of course not, but the Diesel has the torque to keep up the hill, at 50 -55mph and still go if you want to, rather than the 350 going down to 30-35mph. I do also have a chevy SB 400cid. cant remember if its 6.0 6.7 or what, now that had alot of torque, for a gas job. I know todays gas trucks are alot better. I think my point should be you get more work out of the diesel, with less fuel use than a gas job. My ford went 5 day a week on $75.00 worth of fuel, 40 gallon tank, not quite full maybe about 60-80 miles a day. It would cost maybe 2xs as much for gas.
 
When you say that the programing is different between the late 07 & the 09 are you talking dsls or gas.If dsl,can you reflash the computor or are you stuck with what it is.Thanks.
 
[i:654c4848f0]The difference between 10.5 and 12mpg is neither here nor there.You are purchasing a high powered,heavy,big,HD truck. Fuel mileage is not a 1st consideration.
[/i:654c4848f0]
Ya know B&D, for once I agree with you.
I know I like Chevys and I know I need a 3/4 ton.
This is my 2nd K 2500HD 6.0 standard cab. I put 150K on the first one and have about 50K on this one. Not once in all those miles have I ever checked the mileage. It is what it is.
 
Different chassis and different emissions regs. Of course some things are different.
The computer still looks for an air-fuel mixture of 14.7 to 1 in any case to make the cat converters work. So it's not dialing in a leaner mixture.
Where was this easy miracle mileage before 2007?
Who here thinks that tweaking some software can overcome the laws of physics?
 
It appears you failed math class.It's the highest rear wheel HP that gets to the top of the hill first.
There is torque and rpm. Lots of one without the other amounts very little.
A 1HP engine can be rigged to develop 1000lb ft or torque. try that on a hill.
The diesel could have twice the torque of the gasser which it doesn't b.t.w. with 1/4 of the rpm. Guess which has more HP.
People keep thinking gasser vs. diesel as if it was 1960 to 1985.

Have a look at the formula for HP

HP=torque X RPM/5252.
 
If you hook a 15K to 20K goose-neck behind a Duramax then hook the same trailer behind a 6.0 gasser you will definitely see the diesel advantage. If you pull a gas that hard on a daily basis it will not last long. The Duramax generates nearly twice the torque as the 6.0 and with the Allison and the beefed up drive-line that comes with a Duramax it will outlast the gasser many times. I agree a diesel is not for someone that just uses a truck as a car but for a work truck they cannot be beat and are worth every penny.
 
I know a guy with an 05 or 06 with a 6.0 and 4.10 gears, he gets 8mpg all the time he says, hauling round bales, hauling cattle or just driving it.
 
The Allison goes behind either the gas or diesel.
As for gas vs. diesel durability? This is the 2000's not the 1970's-1980's. Back then diesels were good for 300,000miles, gassers barely it to 100,000miles trailing smoke.
Today any old gasser in any vehicle with 300,000miles doesn't bat an eye. 300,000 miles with a high pressure common rail diesel is a long time past factory warranty.
Today the gassers are the simple reliable engine.
There isn't anybody here that will wear out a gas or diesel engine before the body is rusted off the frame.
 
Just looked at the GM site. 360HP for the 6.0 and 365HP for the diesel.
Identical pickup except for engines on the same hill & load.
There is going to be no difference. In fact the gasser might be faster as the truck weighs less.
 
ok, than why do they have Diesel / electric locomotives? Diesel runs the generator, which makes power for electric motors. The electric motors have more torque than gas or diesels, to power the train, right? Not comparing apples to apples,but everyone knows a diesel produces more ft lbs of torque than a gas engine, same cubic inches, the diesel would not be double. Now I think my powerstroke is 575 ftlbs of torque @1600 rpms,I dont know the Cubic inches of the powerstroke. My sb400 maybe made 375ft lbs of torque, and it was higher HP, but couldent pull like the diesel. Same with a 2cycle, they dont have the torque of a 4 stroker.
 
The Allison went behind the big block (8.1?). The transmission behind the 6.0 isn't the Allison. It may have been Diesel Power that did the gas vs diesel comparison, and they didn't like the trans behind the 6.0 because it skewed their dyno results, it doesn't have a direct drive ratio in it, but they said it is NOT the Allison.
 
(quoted from post at 08:41:07 01/17/10) Mileage IS important. You drive your gasser, at 9 mpg, and I'll use my Dodge CDT which gets 15 mpg loaded to 12k.
After just 70k miles I have spent 13k for fuel, and you have spent 22k for gas.

Gordo
Click to expand...

But you also spent $5,000 to $6,000 more to get the diesel. Don't forget to factor that into your equation.
 
It's much closer to $10K than $5K. The diesel is a $7195 option and the Allison transmission (mandatory with the diesel) is a $1200 option.

Dean
 
Torque gets the load moving and keeps it moving. HP means nothing when your moving a heavy load. If your logic is used a 3000 HP top fuel drag motor would be able to power a train locomotive, NOT. It takes one or several huge a$$ high torque DIESELS to move that much weight and keep it moving. You don't believe me bring your 6.0 down and I'll borrow the neighbors gooseneck, same as my trailer. I'll load the trailers up with 11 heavy alfalfa bales and hook one to my 08 Duramax and one to your 6.0. We'll go out and do some hill climbing and I guarantee it wont be me eating dust.
 
Gotta agree with you here. Anybody who looks at factory rated horsepower numbers and comes to the conclusion just based on that info that both engines will perform about the same has just flat never driven a duramax. Absolutely NO comparison!

My brother has a duramax crewcab with the high performance computer modual thing added to it, and the ONLY thing I've ever driven that might even be close to being as quick in a quarter mile was the 68 Camaro I used to have that had a 425-horse, solid-cammed, square-port headed 427, with stall converter and 4.56 gears. Ran high 11's at the dragstrip...

As for towing, with a loaded 35 foot stock trailer full of mature cows, it'll still set ya back in the seat and never even notices the hills.
 
The Allison DOES NOT go behind the gasser. It did go behind the 8.1 but that motor was discontinued several years ago. The six speed behind the current 6.0 is basically a 4L80 variant with two extra gears. Much weaker than an Allison. As for a 6.0 going 300000 miles under heavy load, good luck. Many are now requiring rebuilds after as little as 125000 because of the short skirt light weight piston design. Improvements have been made such as Teflon and other high tech piston coatings but 300000 is a stretch. I know of 3 Duramax diesels locally used by cattle haulers that have over 300000 miles with minimal trouble.
 
Im not gonna argure with B&D anymore, I tried to tell him torque is what gets you going too, How come all 20ton capicity tandem dump truck use diesels, roll off trucks, tractor trailer tractors, ships, modern farm tractors,, ect. Maybe they will start putting Keith Black Hemis, or Sassy motors in a new line of articulating tractors, all that hp will pull 14 bottoms??
He did post Duramax HP365 and 6.0 HP360, maybe he should go back and post the foot pounds of torque for each.!
Untitled URL Link
 
what you guys are missing on hp vrs torque..

hp comes at high rpms, uses more fuel and will overheat the engine if ran long term at this load.

torque is the power or force with no help of gears, occurs at low rpms and engines will run at almost the peak effiecintcy, lowest heat and lowest fuel.

it was thought that only hp could win races,, then audi ran the tdi diesel and won 3 years in a row,,the pugeot came along with thier diesel and beat audi's diesel with a newer better model.. but these are long races not 1/4 miles races..

so in a 1/4 mile the gas has the advantage...
in anything longer under heavy loads, the diesel or higher torque vehicle will kick butt. Most diesels have the hp purposely limite in the injector pump by fuel limiting. On the older pumps, you simply turned them up and installed bigger injectors for more fuel and the diesels would go from 300 hp to up to a 1000 hp on the cummings 5.9s.. But other than short races or short pulling, they were not suitable for long duration work. diesel fuel has 25% more power that gas so it will always develop more power under the same given rpm than a gas engine. As discussed, You have to drive a diesel about 75000 miles to break even on the purchase costs. After that you come out ahead. If you pull a lot, you come out ahead sooner, much sooner and yes, you can pull bigger loads with out buring up the engine as you would on a gas engine.

Also remember that as you increase the rpms by 10%, wear increases 40%. Gas engines when pulling must use high rpms for hp.. diesels dont due to more torque. In heavy duty trucks, motorhomes, etc gas engines will wear out at 60 to 100K. The same gas engines with overdrive and keeping the rpms low will go as far as 150k to 200k on a regular basis. So if your pulling very much, then you have every reason to go diesel. If you pull once a year, and dont have to pull at 70mph and can take your time.. gas will do well. I see way too many city boys buying a diesel and never pulling a thing. I sure like these trucks when they trade them in.
 
It"s been a few years since I compared the difference. I didn"t realize that the diesel option was THAT much higher.
 
Apples and oranges comparison here again.
There are a bunch of diesel owners with programming boxes. Letting on that their diesel is stock but isn't.

I have to wonder how people think that a 360 HP diesel has more power than a 360HP gasser.
For those of you baffled by the simple math. rpms is rpms. Toque is torque. HP which is the rate of which work is performed per hour.Is a function of BOTH torque and rpms.

Tell me which engine has more power, which one can perform the greatest amount of work per hour?

#1 2000rpm and 750lb ft of torque
#2 3200rpm and 469lb ft of torque
#3 4500rpm and 333.4 ft lb of torque?
 
If you are done comparing apples and oranges again.
If the diesel hasn't been souped. The gasser putting 300HP to the rear wheels will do an equal job of the diesel putting 300HP to the rear wheels.
With less torque loading and wear of the trans shafts, clutches and bearing b.t.w.with the gasser.

The 3000HP dragster engine would pull equal with the 3000HP locomotive diesel. For the few seconds the dragster engine lasts. That is why they don't use dragster engines.

A heavy diesel application operating a ship prop, power generator off road heavy equipment. Spend most of the time at 2/3 to full power and rpm ratings.
A highway vehicle such as a pickup spends most of the time loafing around at idle and up to 15 to 25% of rated power. At less than rated rpms below full rated rpms.

Apples and oranges again.

Do you understand HP= torque X rpm/5252 of not?
 
You have totally missed the point.
For off road HD use the diesel is cheaper to operate in the long term.
I don't see any 20 ton tandem trucks waiting in the coffee shop drive through line.Pickups yes.
Automotive highway applications and off road/marine applications are different.

I supposed you are also baffled by the following? HP= torque X rpm / 5252
 
I don't believe you numbers. The gasser is low, I get 13mpg. And your diesel reads high due to being re-chipped.
Diesel costs more too per gallon. Waxed up filters in the winter.And lets talk the price of common rail diesel injection components.
 
Sotxbill
While I don't completely agree with everything. You have a much more accurate grasp of the issue than some others here.
The diesels cleaned up in the 24hr endurance races as it wasn't an issue of peak HP and torque.Once up the pack speed, it's back to part throttle operation.
It was the time lost from the track due to pit stops that allowed the diesels to win. With 11 to 13% more btu's per gallon. That gave the diesel teams another 4 to 6 miles down the track. Each time the gassers had to stop but the diesels didn't stop.
Tortoise vs. the hare type of race.
 
You spelled my name wrong. I give, just like another certain Canadian your always right and if someone disagrees with you they are stupid. But I maintain in the real world a diesel engine will always out torque a same displacement gasoline engine. My last word on the subject!
 
I think you have some interesting points, but if you do much pulling at all, the diesel IS the way to go.

True that a 350hp gas has the same HP as a 350 hp diesel, but that is only useful if you have a stick tranny and keep both engines in the power curve, which for a gas engine will be really high RPM, not much fun to drive and really hard on gas.

I have had several 3/4 and 1 tons, both gas and diesel. My Dodge V10 got as bad as 4mpg over a full tank of fuel pulling a 8,000lb trailer with a 10,000lb 4020 on it with a cab into a strong headwind. I could hold 60mph, but ran out the 35 gallon tank in short order.

Also as to justifying spending the $8000 or so for the diesel, every dime of that seems to come back on resell or trade in value. Run 50,000 miles on a identical gas and diesel trucks, diesel would be worth roughly $8000 more, 100,000 miles, same thing. The numbers will start to slide off after that, but you have already recouped the cost of the diesel in fuel savings at 100,000 miles anyway
 
Just finished a 1600 mile round trip with an 04 GMC 2500. 6.0 gas, crew cab, 2 adults, 2 kids, and a few hundred pounds of gear in the back. This truck has the 373 rear end though. Got anywhere from 13 to 14.5 mpg at 70 to 75 mph.
Around town I average 12.5
 
Thanks for all the replies. I had a feeling it would drink a little fuel. I will be using it for my daily drive to work also. Maybe I'll get a beater to drive on days I don't need the truck.

Rick
 
Where did I miss-spell your name?
As for HP and torque per cu" lets compare apples to oranges.
A gas and diesel 4020, both natural aspirated. Had nearly identical HP and torque levels, with the slightly smaller gas engine.
Now if you want to compare turbo intercooled gas engines and turbo intercooled diesel engines. Where do you think the HP and torque number would favor.
As to what is best? If using the vehicle as a HD truck at near full HP at all times. The diesel wins. If using the truck as 99% of trucks are used. The gasser wins.
 
Thats fine, I know what the numbers say, but a completely STOCK Duramax will still pull circles around any stock 6.0 gasser put out today in a similar chassised pickup. We've got 3 D-max's on the place, my brother's has the programmer and is almost dangerously fast, the other two are stock and still pull MUCH better than any gasser we've had, including 454's. Without having personally driven 'em, I wouldn't believe it either.

That being said, I'm currently in the market for an '02-'06 2500 Crewcab, and I'm planning on getting a gasser just for the lower buy-in price unless a real steal comes up for a d-max... The extra cost of the d-max's just isnt worth it for me since I won't always be towing.
 
Anybody here know the difference between two otherwise identical aircompressors with a 12" compressor pulley?
One compressor has a 3450rpm 5HP motor with a 3" pulley. The other compressor has a 1740rpm 5HP motor with a 6" pulley.
 

buickanddeere[/quote]
Anybody here know the difference between two otherwise identical aircompressors with a 12" compressor pulley?
One compressor has a 3450rpm 5HP motor with a 3" pulley. The other compressor has a 1740rpm 5HP motor with a 6" pulley.


Are you trying your famous"change the subject routine" when it gets too hot for you??????????

In your previous comparison of 4020 D's & G's as having same HP & torque.

Are you stating that a gas 4020 will pull a moldboard plow equally as well as a diesel in same soil,depth & speed????????
 
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