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Tractor Talk Discussion Forum

Calcium Chloride

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bill mart

12-30-2009 14:45:40




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How many pounds of calcium chloride are generally added per gallon of water when loading tires? Besides the protection from freezing how many extra pounds would the calcium add compared to just water in say a 12.4 x 38 tire? And does the dissolved calcium displace any of the space that pure water would take up ? (shouldnt because it dissolved but I'm not sure). Bill M.




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fred kobs

12-31-2009 04:00:14




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
I personally think that I want the heaviest ballast on my horse to be as low to the ground as possible and if I gotta mess w/fluid, I want it heavy as possible. My Massey has rim rot and it's never had calcium. I also don't want to go any wider w/wheel wts as it just clears the door now. I think if a guy wants to load his tires w/bricks, or whatever, that's fine also. I've been wrong before. It's happened today already. Fred

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Ultradog MN

12-31-2009 03:49:10




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
A smart farmer would fill his tires with Johney Walker or Cutty Sark. After a bad day just a few sips at the schrader valve and he would come home happy as a lark and as well ballasted as his tires.
Seriously though, I think CaCl gets a worse rap than it deserves. Like the fellows on the N board who complain that it ruined their rims.
I guess they were expecting a longer life on a rim than only 60 years.

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MF Poor

12-31-2009 03:13:13




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
Ain't it grand! Ask some people what time it is and they tell you how to build a watch.

At any rate, it's all about how concentrated the mix is. Water is roughly 8-1/2lbs per gallon. Cal/Cl mix can be as much as 11 or 12 lbs per gallon without much trouble.

I've got a couple tractors here that I can account for every day of their working life. BOTH have cal/cl mix in the rears. NEITHER have rusted rims. One is 39 years old, the other is 51 years old. With the right equipment, it's MUCH easier for one man to swap fluid in/out than it is to wrestle iron weights. All the local tire services I'm familiar with are equipped to handle Cal/Cl fluid. They WILL NOT work with anything else, as they don't wish to have 2 or 3 sets of pumps, barrels, ect.

In a perfect world, I'd rather not need ANY ballast, liquid or otherwise. But we know the world isn't perfect. That said, I'll take Cal/Cl and go on with life.

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JayinNY

12-30-2009 20:13:39




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
How about that stuff called rim gaurd? I think its molassas or beet pulp juice? Dosent rust rims, but I dont know how much it weights compared to cacl??



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mike321

12-30-2009 19:50:36




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
There have been more rims destroyed by calcium chloride then have been saved. Do yourself the favor and go with something else. The big three tractor manufactures dont even want people to use calcium chloride.If anyone is to lazy to put on cast wheel weights they should price out a new rim, it isnt cheap at all. My neigbor owns a tire shop and he tries to stay away from the stuff at all cost.



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RodInNS

12-30-2009 20:24:45




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to mike321, 12-30-2009 19:50:36  
HUH?
Every operators manual I've ever read for a farm tractor has a ballast chart indicating weight added per tire with various blends of CaCl and water. I'd take that as an endorsement...

Rod



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klf

12-30-2009 20:29:20




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to RodInNS, 12-30-2009 20:24:45  
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing Rod.



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klf

12-30-2009 20:23:54




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to mike321, 12-30-2009 19:50:36  
LOL, make sure the doorways and gates are wide, because it will take a lot of wheel weights to equal the ballast the CaCl2 and H2O will give you.



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klf

12-30-2009 17:56:28




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
If you want the most bang for your buck, CaCl2 is the way to go. As far as CaCl2 destroying your rims, only if it leaks. If your tube or valve stem leaks, replace or repair it right away.



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Don-Wi

12-30-2009 17:33:36




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
I think if you took a pole of what guys use in their tires, and then a pole on if they're"hobby" farmers, real farmers, or just play with tractors, those that are real farmers will use CC more than anything else. Not saying some don't use other fluids, I'm just saying that most will still use CC.

That includes us. My 1600 had fluid in the tires for 40 years before it was pumped out. I had the fluid removed for purposes of moving the tractor around, and then when I got new tires put on I left the fluid out because I didn't intend to use it for heavy fieldwork anymore.
Dad was around when the new tires were put on, as he agreed to buy rubber if I did everything else. He said the rims were spotless. This was about 40 years after Grandpa bought it and he had fluid in it from day 1.

Donovan from Wisconsin

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kyplowboy

12-30-2009 23:07:28




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to Don-Wi, 12-30-2009 17:33:36  
Well said.

Nothing else is as cheap and easy even if you figure one changing out valve stems every 5 years just to make sure they don't leak.

Dave



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RodInNS

12-30-2009 20:25:58




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to Don-Wi, 12-30-2009 17:33:36  
Very accurate assessment....

Rod



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James22

12-30-2009 18:50:17




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to Don-Wi, 12-30-2009 17:33:36  
Yes, would agree that most "real" farmers will use CC. A few because it weighs more, most because it is cheaper. We had CC in two Ford tractors and eventually ruined a rim on each one. Did take 35 years or so. Also agree when you discover a leak, the tire should be removed and the problem fixed. Unfortunately at least on our farm, there were often many other alligators in the swamp that more urgently needed attention. Most of the tractors that I have purchased were filled with CC. Several both front and rear. One of the first projects was always to remove that stuff, clean up the rims and install new tubes. I purchased wheel weights as necessary to meet my drawbar pull requirements. If the maximum drawbar pull/weight is necessary, I would use something rather than CC; e.g., washer fluid, and then add wheel weights as is required.

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thurlow

12-30-2009 18:07:11




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to Don-Wi, 12-30-2009 17:33:36  
Totally agree; used it for better than 40 years with no problems and NO rusted rims. A few years ago, the farmers around here went to alcohol, just because the 3 tire shops in the area no longer wanted to fool with the CaCl and only stocked the alcohol.



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paul

12-30-2009 15:48:15




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
You can use different solutions to get different weights, different freeze protections. Typically I believe you get a gallon of solution to weight 11 lbs ' here' in the north.

If you want weight, use CC.

If you want a clean windshield, use washer fluid.

If you want a good cooling system, use antifreeze.

Each has it's place, and each is best for doing each individual job. I wouldn't ever interchange and of those fluids for any of the other uses? Think about it.

This is just my Northern-boy opinion tho, couldn't possibly afford any of the other things in minus 25 degree temps anyhow; and if I want weight, I really want the weight, not 6lb/gal toxic alcohol....

--->Paul

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blinwmiaol.com

12-30-2009 18:26:57




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to paul, 12-30-2009 15:48:15  
I too am a northern boy but I guess I just don't buy that either ethylene glycol, common antifreeze ingredient, or propylene glycol, alternative antifreeze active ingredient, were created and used exclusively for automotive antifreeze. Both ingredients are used in thousands of other products. Heck, the H1N1 flu vaccine has ethylene glycol in it. Propylene glycol is non-toxic, I use it to feed to cattle with goofed up blood ketones. It also is the ingredient in a very sweet alcoholic concoction. My point is neither one of these chemicals was created and produced to be only antifreeze.

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buickanddeere

12-30-2009 18:14:59




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to paul, 12-30-2009 15:48:15  
A bit light at the 6lbs there, closer to 8-1/2lbs per gallon.



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glennster

12-30-2009 19:02:01




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to buickanddeere, 12-30-2009 18:14:59  
methyl alcohol, which is used in washer fluid weighs about 6.5 pounds per gallon, water about 8.3 for distilled. waher fluid does have a certain percentage of water mixed with it, depending on if it is a summer or winter mix. methyl alcohol is pretty toxic.



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glennster

12-30-2009 19:05:17




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to glennster, 12-30-2009 19:02:01  
and here are a few facts regarding the toxic nature of methyl alcohol



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alg

12-31-2009 06:00:54




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to glennster, 12-30-2009 19:05:17  
One thing that people should note is that methyl alcohol is highly flammable.



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buickanddeere

12-31-2009 09:13:57




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to alg, 12-31-2009 06:00:54  
Aright 7-1/2 lbs, not 8-1/2 lbs per gallon. It still isn't a lot of total weight difference on the tractor. If 100lbs is the difference between the rear wheels lifting off the ground. The tractor and it's use is already way beyond any reasonable application. If there isn't enough room to hand cast iron on the outside of the tire. There is lots of room on the inside. The amount of ruined rims in salvage yards.And business that salt water gives tire shops. No question tire shop owners make a tidy living thanks to the corrosive effect of salt water. How can somebody get concerned over the flammability of diluted windshield washer fluid.Never seen anybody worry with a cigarette around a glass of 40%/80proof rum.

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buickanddeere

12-30-2009 14:56:41




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
Correct answer is no calcium chloride.

Use diluted windshield washer fluid instead. On a 12.4X38 tire at full fill to the valve stem at 12 o'clock. The weight difference is a measly 90lbs per tire. On a 4500 to 6000lb tractor. 180lbs is a whole whopping 4% of a 4500lb tractor's weight.3% of a 6000lb tractor. A tractors gross weight can change that much by filling with fuel and different sized operators. Or just one pair of cast weights extra. They are cheaper than rusted rims.

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old

12-30-2009 16:41:27




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to buickanddeere, 12-30-2009 14:56:41  
I have never found any Wind shield wiper fluid that if cut with water would not freeze. I even have seen it written on the bottle NOT to dilute or it will freeze. I'd love to know what you use and where you find that stuff because in my area there isn't any that diluted will not freeze



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Mike M

12-30-2009 17:17:03




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to old, 12-30-2009 16:41:27  
When I worked for the car dealer we got some in bulk plastic barrels that was concentrated. I think you were to cut it 50/50 for normal winter service. I'll also tell you that that stuff is corrosive too ! It eats up the barrel pumps and on a certain model Cadillac when the washer hose connection comes apart it sprays onto the fuse box and it can wreek havok in there too.



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JD2ACWD

12-30-2009 16:52:49




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to old, 12-30-2009 16:41:27  
old,up here in NW Wisconsin even the cheap undiluted wind shield washer freezes.



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IAGary

12-30-2009 15:45:24




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to buickanddeere, 12-30-2009 14:56:41  
I have trouble with windsheild washer fluid freezing at full strength. Diluted with water would freeze for sure.

I use calcium in mine.

Gary



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135 Fan

12-30-2009 15:25:51




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to buickanddeere, 12-30-2009 14:56:41  
Calcium chloride has been used for decades in tractor tires. There are tractors that have 40 year old tires with calcium chloride still in them. It only casues a problem if it does start to leak and nothing is done about it. If you have good tube, a good valve stem and a good cap you shouldn't have any problems. Millions of tractors have calcium in the tires with no problems. Dave



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glennster

12-30-2009 15:37:02




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to 135 Fan, 12-30-2009 15:25:51  
and its a lot easier to pump the liquid out than wrestle 140- on up to 220 lbs weights on and off a tractor by yourself.



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glennster

12-30-2009 14:49:40




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 Re: Calcium Chloride in reply to bill mart, 12-30-2009 14:45:40  
here is a link to the mixing chart for calcium chloride. when i load tires i run the 5lb/gallon mix. if i am gonna load em, may as well load em heavy. when you mix the chloride with water, the mix gets hot!! let it cool for half a day before you pump it in the tires.



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