OT-Auction Ethics

Formerly PaMike · Dec 25, 2009

There were 2 auctions I wanted to attend last weekend, so I decided to put in absentee bids in at one auction. I met the auctioneer a week early and looked over the items. I put bids on 6 lots, for a total of about $2400.00. I knew the $2400.00 was very competative and figured I would get at least 4 of the lots and maybe all of them. Auctioneer called and said got all 6 for $1900 total. Fine, meet up with the auctioneer a few days after the sale, paid the auctioneer and start loading up. Start talking to another guy loading up. I asked him if he saw my lots sell. He said he did. He said the auctioneer grouped all the items together with a starting bid of $1900.00. No one else bid, so he knocked them off and moved on. I was a little irritated. One one hand I got the items for less than the max, but on the other hand dont you think he oughta let a live floor bidder set the starting minimum bid instead of starting at a high bid since he knew I was good for it? I wonder what the "proper" auction method is for dealing with a situation like that.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 25, 2009

I don't see the problem.You got all the items you wanted for $500.00 less than you were willing to spend. I would be delited.

phillip d · Dec 25, 2009

Hard to say if he did you a favour or took advantage of you.If he thought it WAS worth more than 1900,he would have done better starting in bidding range and carry it as far as 2400 would let it go.He could have started at 2400 on the other hand,he did save you 500 and your time from being there.Next time it may be better to attend in person?

rockyridgefarm · Dec 25, 2009

Hey Mike,

I guess it's a good argument for not putting in absentee bids. I trsut auctioneers about as far as i can throw 'em. I've never put in an absentee bid, but my instructor in Tech school used put a lot of 'em in. One time, he was called on an IH with mounted picker. He put in a top bid of 1800 bucks on it sight unseen 'cause he thought he could trust the auctioneer. He won it for 1800 bucks and went to get it. Turned out it was a piece of junk. He was annoyed, but paid for it anyway, being a man of his word. He found out later the auctioneer used his top bid as the opening bid. He never went to that auctioneer's sale ever again.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 25, 2009

The last honest auctioneer around here died 20 years ago, Clarence Worth. He would stop and tell you if you upped your own bid. Most of them around here are greedy a-holes who pull bids out of the air, run you up and will tell you anything truth or not. A few of them will take bids after saying sold which is not legal. My dad always said they were a "king for the day". I put them in the same class as lawyers.

Spook · Dec 25, 2009

I would never put in an absentee bid. You might be the only bidder. That sounds like what happened.

paul · Dec 25, 2009

I think you have one of those oxi-morons? Actions and ethics?

The auctioneer represents the seller. Doesn't owe the buyer a thing, and that's how it is done.

I understand what you are saying. But...

--->Paul

formerly ny bill · Dec 25, 2009

were the 6 things you wanted, things that would have naturally been lumped together? otherwise, it sounds to me like the auctioneer took the easy way out (for him) on the 6 items, by only having to sell one lot. he probably felt like he was doing you a favor by saving you $500, but the people who took time to attend the auction and wanted one or more (but not all) of the items got the shaft.

Goose · Dec 25, 2009

Once, back when I had a used car dealer's license, I took an Olds Cutlass to a dealer's auction and put a $3400 protection price on it.

When it went through the ring, the bidding stalled out at $3250. The ringman came over and asked me if I'd let it go for that. I said, "Naw, I need $3400 for it".

The ringman said, "We only have one guy bidding. We'll work on him some more".

They started the bidding again, pretty soon had it to $3400, and sold the car. I have no idea where they got their other bids. Probably out of the rafters.

PaGlenn · Dec 25, 2009

Best to stay away from those types of bids. When
bidding at auction, have a friend take note of the people bidding with you on the item ,since your attention is on the auctioneer.

patiolant · Dec 25, 2009

I stopped putting in absentee bids after watching an auction for a Ford F150 that my neighbor had put in a bid for $7500. He knew the auctioneer, and told the auctioneer to have one of his staff bid on his behalf. The auctioneer ran it up to $7450, and my neighbor "won" it for this price. The bids went up to that point very quickly and then stopped cold, and I couldn't see the other "bidder".

kyplowboy · Dec 25, 2009

I watched a guy take bids off a tobacco barn one time. There was a tractor at a sale, there had been only one guy looking at it all morning. Nice dressed middle age guy who didn't look like he belonged there to start with. He had been standing by this tractor for about 2 hours when it sold. The ring man was pointing behind him take'n bids while it went up to bout twice what it was worth. There was no one behind the bidder, just an old tobacco barn.

Dave

kyplowboy · Dec 25, 2009

How ever you look at it the auctioneer took the easy way out. Most of the time when I have seen an auctioneer do that they will ask if any one has a problem with putting a pile of stuff together. If no one has a problem they will sell stuff like that in lots. On one hand if he had sold them one at a time some one there would have gone higher than your $400 average on at least one item. In a way he did you a favor, if your bids were fair to you then he "made" you $500.

Dave

RodinNS · Dec 25, 2009

If you're going to worry about things like that... you best be there to do the bidding.
On one hand I'd suggest having someone you trusted do the bidding for you, but I wonder if you'd second guess him too?
Just as well to be there or forget about it.

Rod

Mike (WA) · Dec 25, 2009

I think that was Mike's point- auctioneer really wasn't representing the seller by grouping a bunch of stuff that probably should have sold individually to maximize price. Mike got a good deal, but didn't feel right about the seller kind of getting the shaft.

olgentdc · Dec 25, 2009

True ,, After all the auctioneer already had a bid for all 6 items , YOURS !, If no one Objects to putting all together ,AND That is the SELLer and any bidders Right ,as well as the Auctioneers , , and HE got you 20% discount off Your Bid , and kept the Auction moving , THe CROWD is Happy , . Obviously these were large ticket valuable items .....Nuthin'worse than a kuntry auction dragging on all day on nickle and dime stuff and you lose the crowd of bidders ...

ChrisinMO · Dec 25, 2009

When we moved here (southern MO), I intentionally attended several different auctions by different auctioneers. I wanted to get a feel for how they went about their business. I even upped my own bid on an item just to see what the response would be. As a result, I quickly got an idea about who ran good auctions.

That being said, I don't think I would ever have an auctioneer bid on something for me, no matter how honest he is. It is just a conflict of interest.

Christopher

kyplowboy · Dec 25, 2009

Yep, there is one guy around here that took over 3 hours to sell 2 16' trailers worth of barn cleanings a few months ago. Good thing was most folks left before noon mad cause it was take'n so long, some of the old farts had fun make'n $1 bids on junk and try'n to see who could make the biggest pile with a $20 bill, and by the time they got to any of the good stuff I was able to pick up a few things I wanted for less than scrap price. Bad thing was I didn't know thats the way he was and I had to set through all the "We got a good 10' nylon rope here boys, only used a few times, who'll give $1?!?!?!"

The most popular auctioneer around here does small stuff last. If it's an estate sale and momma or the kids want the barn/shop/sheds/garage cleaned out they will set stuff on pallets. I was at one of his sales two weeks ago where they had over 150 pallets of stuff. Each one piled up with as much stuff as you could put on them. He sold them all in about an hour. "We got a pallet of planter parts, who'll give me $10? $10? Nobody? We got a pallet of combine parts and a pallet of planter parts, who'll give me $10? Got ten, who'll give me $15, 15, 15? Sold $10." And he went about as fast as you just read that.

Dave

kyplowboy · Dec 25, 2009

Don't fuss too much about him if he didn't charge you buyer's premium!!!!

I guess premiums are common place in some parts but we have only had one around here try it and he quit after a while. People were calling his office and saying they would not go to sales and other auctioneers were putting "NO BUYER'S PREMIUM" across the top of their adds. Don't guess I blame him, every one would do a job once and get paid twice if they could but it was funny watching him fail at it.

Dave

matt06br · Dec 25, 2009

There is one honest auctioneer in my area that announces that there is an absentee bid on an item and the opening bid has to come from the croud. I think that is how it should be done. On the other hand there is anouther auctioneer that starts out saying he has 5 and asks who can give him 10. When nobody bids he then resarts it out at a dollar or 2.50

Les Va · Dec 25, 2009

There are two rules of thought on this topic,one is the auctionier is there for the seller,so if you leve a $xx bid on an item he has a responsablity to the seller to sell it for that amount,because he has that amount offered,unless he descloses beforehand that he has and will be taking and bidding for abesent buyers as if they were there.Because if you start it off with your high opening bid ,you won't be getting many bids left after that,There are a few honest ones left out there I am a auctioner and I won' take your bid twice,and I won't run your bid up,and if I am bidding for someone that is not there I will tell you before I start,and I DO NOT BELEIVE IN A B/P

504-1 · Dec 25, 2009

You have to know your auctioneer, I used to work the ring for a guy that if you left a 100.00 bid, that is where he started the biding, even if it could have been bought for 30.00 in person.

Walterdavies · Dec 26, 2009

When bidding at an auction I always keep one eye on the auctioneer and the other on the person I'm bidding against. Hard to get a bid from out of the air if they know that you are watching them.
Walt

da-bees · Dec 26, 2009

If the things were in seperate lots before the aucton,they should have sold in seperate lots. Otherwise he should do like on say a matched pair of guns or a cow with unweaned calf at side. Take bids on each then as a pair. I consighned a tractor in a sell that unbeknownest to me the aucton barn owned a bunch of the tractors. Well he struck down my tractor at what was to me an ecceptable price,so I bought two emplements to haul back with me. when I went to setell up,I found he thought the tractor was one of the barns and was trying to pad the price and there was no buyer. Needless to say there was some words exchanged since I couldn't haul my tractor and the emplements I just bid on.

Anonymous-0 · Dec 26, 2009

Grouping items together isn't so bad but the starting price should be set by the people in attendance. Some auctioneers actually have some ethics, while a lot don't. You put in a bid for up to $2400 and got the items for $1900. That doesn't mean the auctioneer saved you $500. All it means is the auctioneer took advantage of you not being there. Too bad you didn't know someone who could have watched to see if anyone else opened the bid. You might have got the items for $1000 or less if no one was interested. I was at an auction for a big welding shop and although the auctioneer was pretty good, several people wanted the leather jackets sold seperately, but I didn't bid because I didn't need a dozen of them. I did buy 8 channel saw horses that were used to hold sheets of plywood for small items, for $7.50 a piece. One of the better deals I've got at an auction. I also got a straight Victor torch for a pipe beveler for $30 and some really good flow meters for $10 to $20 at the same auction. Dave

Dean · Dec 26, 2009

Auctions have ethics??

Dean

Anonymous-0 · Dec 26, 2009

Being an Auctioneer in the states of Ohio and West Virginia for the past 25+ years, I have to say, I agree with some of the comments and disagree with others. Just like any other profession, there is good as well as bad in all. It's very true, the auctioneer works for the seller BUT, he also is working for (or should be)working for the buyer too, that's where his next sale is going to come from. By that, I mean his job is to try to get a price where the seller feels he has gotten a good price for his merchandise and the buyer feels he has gotten an item for a good price (fair market value). Now for the absentee bid. I will not accept an absentee bid--my wife does & believe it or not she doesn't tell me what it is. She will have someone in the crowd bid on the item up to the amount of the bid. If the absentee bid is say $100.00 & the item sells for $60.00, then it was won fairly for that price. I feel that if you were there, you wouldn't bid the full amount of your bid as your first bid, so we wouldn't either. Having said that, the best way to kill a sale (& irritate an auctioneer) is if you know you're gonna bid up to say $500.00 on an item and the auctioneer is trying to get his first bid, let him go down to about $200.00 then yell out real loud $350.00. Just stops everyone & you usually get it for the $350 (that's from the buyer side of me. Have a happy new year.

al in ark · Dec 26, 2009

auction and ethics in the same sentence, like lawyer and ethics in the same sentence. i was burnt at an auction bout 2 mths ago i know what you mean. al

JK-NY · Dec 26, 2009

I agree with most of what is said below - 1 more thought - Maybe there was a minimum on the items you wanted set by owner and that is why the bid started at $1900. Look at it this way - you got everything you wanted for approx. 3/4 of what you were willing to pay , without being there to lookout for your own interests I'd say you did OK.If you feel you got misused I wouldnt plan on doing any more absentee bids.Remember the auctioneer is working for the seller and looking out for himself , you could have done worse. I have often seen auctioneers try to start an item high, work down and then run it up way past where they began so no guaruntee you'd have done better if the items were sold separately and started a little lower, by lumping them together it may have discouraged buyers who would have paid plenty for 1 or 2 of the things you wanted but didnt need/want to pay for all 6.

TomH in PA · Dec 26, 2009

Most auctioneers around here announce that they have a bid and let the crowd set the opening and selling price. There is one who will only take an absentee bid on the condition that he starts the bidding there; he makes it clear that you'll win it at that price or someone else can have it for one bid higher. I don't see anything unethical about either way as long as everyone knows the rules, but starting the bidding artificially high when there's no other interest seems wrong if he didn't tell you ahead of time that's how he runs it.

JMS/.MN · Dec 26, 2009

They don"t get paid twice when having an auction with "buyer"s premium". You are paying for his services, instead of the seller paying him. Seller ends up with the auction price.

Rick(MN) · Dec 26, 2009

You put in your abentee bid fully prepared to write a check for $2400.00. You wrote a check for arond 80% of that amount. Could you have paid less?....Possibly. Could you have paid the full amount?....Equally as possible. In your own words you say the bids were competative....telling me you really wanted these items. Anytime you put your fate in someone else's hands, you lose control of the outcome. If I put myself in your shoes, I'm pleased. If I put myself as a buyer wanting one of the items, I'm disgusted. If I put myself as the seller, I'm second guessing the auctioneer and wondering if he was really looking out for me. Bottom line, knowing different auctioneers handle things like this differently, I would say it was incumbant upon you to ask how it would be handled.

kyplowboy · Dec 28, 2009

The one guy close to here that had premums for a while did not drop his commision rates at all. When he is take'n a % from the sellers and a % from the buyers that's getting paid twice to me.

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