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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Is it me or where is the customer servise when you buy something. I just purched a brand new 4055 New Holland tractor with loader 4 wd.
I go to pay for the tractor before they deliver it and i give them the books to the one i traded off i ask for the books for the one i bought and who would guess they would have to find them and bring with the tractor. As i am sure you have all had the same thought when i leave i say to my self i will strugle to get the boooks i told the sales guy if you do not bring the books do not bring the tractor. So on a Tuesday they were to deliver the tractor i call this gut to remind him to bring the books he tells me they are still looking for them, so i remind him again do not bring the tractor with out the books.

So i take off work a little early because hey i got a new tractor in the drive and can not wait to look it over , so i pull in the drive there was the tractor and as you would guess it no books so that lights my fuse to a slow burn until i get on the tractor and move it 10 ft and run out of fuel.
So guess by now the fuse is in full flame i call the jerk and tell him about it and he think it is a little funny. So from learning from the past of spmeone thinking they can take your hard earned money and think it is funny i call the bank at stop payment on the check so i call the jerk and tell him what i have done and now he has seemed to lost his laugh .
So when i am sastified with my purchace they will get paid the way i look at it they will lokk a little harder now that i am hold the purse strings.
So what do you think did i do the right thing..
 
I think that when you stopped payment on a check for a tractor that was already sitting in your yard ready to go, that makes you a puncture wound.

Just my opinion, which is what you asked for.
 
It was not ready to go when you don not get what was in the deal there were other things also like missing the center link.
You must be looking in a mirror
 
someone must have licked the red off well's candy cane. i agree with you except i would have them come get the tractor. oldest son bought a painted up mf 165 from a local dealer and with less than 30 minutes run time it literally came apart with leaks and odd noises. 1st. step was stop payment on check, loaded on trailer and returned to dealer. if sales guy is this way then the service dept. is probably also. i had a new kubota delivered last year dressed out as requested complete with full fuel.
 
i dont think what you did was out of line. the sales guy was advised not to deliver the tractor without the manuals. he delivered it any way. cant find em??? did he ever look? i think i'd wander in to the dealer and raise cain with the owner. if they cannot even take the time to supply you with the owners manuals, that should have been with the tractor, what are they going to be like when you need service???????????
 
Fuel Tank shoulda been full. Books shoulda been on the front seat , and a time scheduled so they knew you were there and a salesman / tech there to ask and answer any questions you may have had when they dropped it off.
 
Bill:

Customer service is largely a thing of the past.

You were well advised to tell the dealer to NOT deliver the tractor without the book(s) and the dealer was wrong to do so without your authorization but stopping payment of the check may have been a bit much. It will get their attention, though.

I just bought a new New Holland T4050, myself, and I do not have the tractor Operator's manual yet, though I do have the loader manual. Apparently, the dealers use the manuals to set up the machine and the service manager did not have a copy of this particular manual so he marked it up with his normal filing notations and kept it.

The salesman offered it to me when I asked about it but I told him to get me a new one without scribbles all over it.

Dean
 
Not good. When I bought and received my JD 2 years ago the guy that delivered it showed me how to work everything, including checking the oil and he gave me the owners manual. (I also had a full tank of diesel) When a person spends thousands of dollars on a piece of equipment the dealer should be more supportive in your case.
 
I use to work at a dealership & the salesman should of been there with the books to show you how to operate.You did the right thing stopping the check or it could of been drawn out for along time.If they can't make it right I would go farther then that & buy somwhere else.
 
If this is a preview of the future service provided by that dealer it may be best to restart your quest for a new tractor.there are people out there that give better service than that!
 
I dont know what it is with dealers and them books . I bought a new holland Com. front deck mower about 5 yrs. ago . After a yr. of asking and lies I got the book but it did nt cover the mower deck . The dealer told me that NH did nt make the deck and they could nt get a book on it and he was able to tell me this with a straight face . Ya gota figger that NH dont make the deck or the mower !!
 
Maybe you should not of paid for it until you were satisfied ? at time of delivery ? Whoever that dealer is that is sure poor business ! If it was BRAND NEW it should of came with a full tank of fuel and the owners manual. I'd also call newholland corporate office and tell them this story too.
 
Funny how when the personal insults come out,the regular user names go missing isn't it?Stopping payment may have been on the edge,but if you didn't get what you payed for than it's your call.I have no doubt they will make things right very quickly before there are any hours put on it.Is this a dealer you've previously dealt with?Do they have a pretty decent previous service record with other customers to your knowledge?We got a new M125X Kubota last year with a loader,all the books were in the poutch and still are beside the seat,and the loader manuals were in the loader support tube inside inside a cover.There was just abit more than enough fuel in the tractor to get it off the float,but they didn't guarantee me $100 bucks worth of fuel in it,gotta pay for the fuel one way or another,no point in paying extra for their highway fuel when I can buy off highway fuel cheaper.I would suspect if this is the first time you've had dealings with them,it's on abit of a bad foot at the moment,you aren't happy with them right now,after they fix it,hopefully they don't hold a grudge in the future.I do think you were right,they may not see it that way unfortunately.If worse comes to worse,find a new dealer to service it and get parts,filters from till you trade it down the road.pd.
 
I realize this is not the same, BUT, I once wanted to get some custom fridge magnets to promote my remodeling business. They would not order them without 100% paid in full. I told them NO WAY! I offered to pay 60% down, 40% at delivery, they would not hear of it! I tried to explain to them that I lost ALL control once they were paid, and I was NOT going to do that. We parted upset at each other! Greg
 
Of course we're only hearing one side of the story but if it was just as you said, then you did the right thing. I work hard for my money and try to treat people right and I expect nothing less in return. Anyone one that thinks you did the wrong thing must be the ones that are pulling this crap. Next time I would not pay everything until they had done what they said they would. Nothing can be taken for granted now days.
 
After reading the posts, your lucky they delivered the tractor before the check cleared.
Most dealers do that, closed and sealed deal.
 
Mr. Koch, my hat is off to you for following through with your threat. No manuals, no tractor, it's not hard to understand. What other recourse did you have? They didn't pay much attention to the requirement before the deal, what incentive would they have afterwards? The stop payment is the only way to get their attention. I bought a Ford Explorer years ago and specified that a service manual was part of the deal. It was promised at delivery, took 4 months, several phone calls, a letter and a special trip to the dealership to pick it up. When I finally got it they acted like they were doing me a big favor.
It's unfortunate that you have to be an a$$hole sometimes, but it's better than getting $crewed.
 
I've never sold new tractors, but I sold new GM vehicles once, and the next to the last part of the delivery process was to go through the owner's manual and other paperwork with the purchaser. This was required by GM.

The last thing was to take the car across the street and fill the tank with gas.

I wouldn't think selling new tractors should be much different.
 
Sorry, Bill, but I missed the part about running out of fuel before posting earlier. The tractor should have been delivered with a FULL tank of fuel, and you were entirely justified to stop payment of the check.

Such lack of consideration for a buyer of an expensive piece of equipment is why people have little trust in dealers.

My T4050 is to be delivered Monday with a full tank of fuel. It has been in the dealers shop this past month while we waited for the FEL and other optional equipment to arrive. I have checked up on various issues nearly each day so as to not be surprised upon delivery. Such attention on my part should not be necessary but such is the norm these days.

Dean
 
Yep I think you handled it just right. They won't think you'll put up with them blowing you off in the future.

In terms of the manual, all you did was expect them to do what they (presumably, because they did not say otherwise) agreed to.

The thing with it having no fuel in it is just really poor. Even if it's not their policy to fill the tank, they should've put maybe five gallons in it, enough to bump up the guage some so it won't run dry RIGHT AWAY. Really poor.
 
You should check up on the law in your state about stop payment orders on checks. You likely have committed a felony if the dealer wants to push it.

As to running out of fuel, I would have just called the dealer and told them the new tractor "just quit!". Let them worry about the why.

I bought a new Kubota in '06 and the dealer made sure I was home when he brought it to the house, with full fuel and books and a full set of first change filters. He also got on it and showed me what does what and then had ME get on it and operate it enough that he figured I wouldn't drive it into the house.

Your dealer should have done the same. Merry Christmas.
 
I think it was totally irresponsible for the dealer to NOT provide the books when you left the dealer!!! They put themselves in a very liable situation by not providing any personal instruction OR owners manuals upon delivery. If you would of got on the tractor and hurt yourself, someone else, or major personal property, I don't see how they could of NOT been liable. PERIOD! Regaurdless of weather or not you told them to. Stopping pmt on the check I think would of been my last resort only after raising three kinds of absolute holy hell with the guy first followed by an official complaint to the corp. CEO of the manufacturer. Like the others have said, very ignorant not providing fuel. At least enought to get to the BARN!!! This would make me very leary of doing further business with them...They only wanted your benjimins!!!
 
I bet they broke some kind of law about delivering the tractor WITHOUT the operators manual. With all the safety BS that there is nowadays, I would think a new tractor without the manual would be illegal. Just my opinion. Sometimes stopping payment is the only way to get their attention though. Bought a combine header one time and it was supposed to come with a driveshaft. I told them they would get paid the full amount when I got the driveshaft. They threatened a collection agency. We didn't back down. We finally got the driveshaft and they finally got their money.
 
I'd tell them to come pick it up or you'll have it delivered back on their dime. Then go buy the same thing at another dealer. Or, from the same dealer but another salesman. That's cause I got's people skills........

Dave
 
You probably burnt a few bridges for warrenty work or future purchases, but I can't say as I blame you.

When I bought a slightly used tractor, they got my check, took them a month to look it over in the shop, Sheez.

I bought it with the manuals - part of the deal.

When I got it, the Slow Moving Vehicle sign was removed - was on when I paid for it.

Took 2 visits to the dealer (75 miles away) and another 2 months until I got those things. They fired the salesman a couple days after I paid I guess, and no one else there seemed to care about me. One time I drove over, parts man said no one was around, no one to talk to, maybe tomorrow but the owner is busy you know.

I understand your frustration.

--->Paul
 
With the way the economy is, any dealer selling equipment should be bending over backwards for their customers. The owners manual needs to come with the tractor, period. Not only do most new machines come with a pocket on them to hold the manual, most implemements do also. I bought a box blade and it has a plastic case on it for the manual. I think it might be mandatory because of safety issues. The first thing any operators manual says is to fully read it before using the equipment. Maybe the manager/owner isn't aware what happened? Tell him you not only want the opertors manual but also the service manuals for the engine and rest of the tractor. If he comes out with all the manuals and a mechanic to fill the tractor full of diesel and bleed it, you'll consider reinstating the check. I don't see how you stopping payment is a felony. The tractor ran out fuel and you can't return it because you don't know how to bleed it. The tractor didn't come complete even after you specifically told them not to deliver it without the manual. If you would have had a serious accident on the tractor, I'm not so sure that the dealer couldn't be liable because they failed to include the most important piece of safety equipment, the operators manual! I'd be writing to the NH main offices and demanding an explanation. They might offer you a discount on other things to try and keep you happy. I'm sure they'll be talking to the dealer as well. If the dealer is anything less than super apologetic and gives you even a funny look, I'd tell them you're going to go look at another dealership and they can take their tractor back. It would seem stupid to lose a sale because of a manual. I think you were well within your rights to put a stop payment on the check. You didn't get what you ordered. Dave
 
Good for you. You did it right. Good thing that tractor was out of fuel tho. As hot as you were, it surely would have blown.
 
Make sure they bring the center link as well. You should also get them to do the the first couple of oil changes and service on the tractor. When I bought my skid steer it included the first 500 hours of maintenance which included oil changes and filter, checking air filter and changing the hyd. filter along with a complete greasing and inspection of the machine. They also went over the complete operation and features of the machine in their yard. You should expect the same. Dave
 
yep that doesn't suprice me at all.Once I had a supplier who delivered a piece of hydraulic equipment without the hoses.Salesman told me that that would cost extra .I told him to F off and take the equipment.He changed his tune but I still got him to haul it away,went to a different dealer and bought it there.
 
I'll stick with my original assessment. Stopping payment on it AFTER it was delivered because you were missing some how-to-drive-a-tractor books is very excessive.

There are larger things in life to worry about without getting so bunched up over a few books that the sales guy can mail to you.
 
(quoted from post at 13:07:49 12/25/09) I'll stick with my original assessment. Stopping payment on it AFTER it was delivered because you were missing some how-to-drive-a-tractor books is very excessive.

There are larger things in life to worry about without getting so bunched up over a few books that the sales guy can mail to you.
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I think its perfecly acceptable.
If they can't find them they should order him a new manual.
 
Good job Bill. I'd find another dealer.

A leopard can't change his spots.

Can you post the dealer's name/location so others don't also waste their time there?

Paul
 
Well,... I disagree with your "assessment".
The customer repeatedly told them NOT to deliver the tractor without the manuals, but they did anyway, thus putting them in the "wrong" on this deal.

I would also have stopped payment on the check.
 
I guess I'm in the wrong place. Do you ladies get together to cry about little stuff every day?

Wanna start a quilting bee someday?

In 10 minutes I could have researched the tractor on the net, looked for anything I needed to know about it and printed it off while I was waiting for the salesman to mail me the originals.

It probably took longer than that to sit on the phone canceling the check, which could very well be illegal since you did receive the tractor.
 
I think I would've told them to come to pick up their tractor after you stop payment. Then you would have the last laugh. Hal
 
As a mechanic I"ve got to put my two cents worth in here. I think what you did was absolutely right, and as long as the machine is setting there with no fuel they can"t claim you used it in order to reduce their liablilty. If you haven"t done it already I"d make sure I"ve got a log of every time I called them along with the name of the person I talked to and the topic of the conversation.
With that said any new piece of equipment that does not come with a manual potentially makes the dealer liable for any injuries incurred when someone tries to operate it. A trade mag I get has a safety column written by one of those guys that terstifies as an expert witness and you"d be suprised at the kinds of things that OEM"s/dealers get sued for and lose when it comes to safety. I"ve read where it was something as simple as the person operating it didn"t read a warning label not placed in a highly visible spot and then did something completely stupid got hurt. Guess what, the stupid operator won....... On top of that the newer machines have so many bells ans whistles that it takes a manual to figure out what used to be the simple stuff since nothing is labled nowdays and instead is identified with all of those "universal" symbols that mean nothing unless you know what they mean.
Did you do the right thing YES, but I would have included a call telling them to come on out and pick up the machine as this level of disservice is apt to continue long after the sell......I had a call the other day from a customer that had bought a new machine (CAT) back on "07. He said when the warranty period was in effect that they kissed his a$$ when it came to repairs. The minute the warranty ran out they changed tacktics and simply bent him over the machine every time they came out. I checked on the service manual alone for the machine...it was over $1100, yes one thousand, one hundered dollars and change......for a manual......... Get your manuals for your new machine or tell them to pick up their machine and tell them you want your trade in back to as the deal is off....... Just my .02
 
(quoted from post at 13:34:40 12/25/09) I guess I'm in the wrong place. Do you ladies get together to cry about little stuff every day?

Wanna start a quilting bee someday?

In 10 minutes I could have researched the tractor on the net, looked for anything I needed to know about it and printed it off while I was waiting for the salesman to mail me the originals.

It probably took longer than that to sit on the phone canceling the check, which could very well be illegal since you did receive the tractor.
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Yep,... you're in the wrong place if you can't understand something as simple as:... "DO NOT DELIVER THE TRACTOR WITHOUT THE MANUALS". :roll:
 
Just bought it new and already it don't run after x amount of feet. It needs to go back under warranty at least. And if it comes back running and with all manuals and equipment then and only then should a check be reissued.
 
Now that you have stopped payment, demand in writing that they come and pick up "THEIR" tractor. DO NOT keep that tractor. Even if the dealer now brings the manuals do not accept them, tell him go get their tractor off your place. If you keep the tractor and pay for it, they WILL GET EVEN with you big time. Your repair bills at that dealership will be more than buying 2 new tractors at any other dealer. Your relationship with that dealer is now unfixable. Tom
 
No personal attack here--you are entitled to do as you please, and asked for opinions--so here is mine.
1) I think you way, way, way over-reacted.

2) NEVER pay for something before it is delivered.

To me, there is a lot of difference between refusing to pay upon delivery if you are not satisfied vs.stopping payment. Stopping payment over some books is excessive and child-like. Now, if the tractor was damaged, was not the model you had purchased, was missing some expensive options you had ordered--then I think you still should have given them a small window to correct their mistake before doing as you did. You have burned your bridges over a really small detail--I hope you don't need this dealership in the future!! They certainly will remember how you treated them on this. I know they were wrong, but make the punishment fit the crime, for pete's sake. You went way overboard. If I was the dealer, I would get the manual (and anything else they owe you) to you ASAP and then hope they never see you again. Honey gets you more than vinegar, and their day-to-day challenges of running a dealership don't need to include you. Just my opinion--remember, you asked for it. (I have over three-quarter's of a million dollars worth of machinery in sheds here, and have NEVER pulled a stunt like you did--and all over a book. WOW)
 
So True .. You and them (because You DID warn them that You wanted the BOOK ) Blew it Big Time ...get Dale Carnegies book How to Win Friends and Influence people and read it before you go buy another tractor from another dealer... You may be able to assuage over this by buying the dealer and his wife a steak dinner gift certificate ,,But believe Me, as Tom tex said anytime You go in for parts and service they will probably try to stk it in your ---...and at the very least the whole shop will not ever forget YOU .. the bridge is broke, learn to build better ones , ..
 
Years ago I woulda done the same. Today things are so bad I allow a dealer to lie to me 3 times and then he is out-NO MERCY.
 
And Any dealer with any self respect would have filled the tank and delivered when you were home to aclimate yourself properly to your new investment ,DAD has bought more New STUFF than me.. My Dad always taught me,This is acontinuing working partnership relationship when you buy from a dealer .it is a win/win situation for everyone . you should respect and accomadate one another cheerfully and honestly,and good things will happen, These Are the Virtues That MAKE A COMMUNITY AND COUNTRY GREAT , and we don't end up like some evil 3rd world kuntry at war with one another ...
 
Bill as for all the posts I have read I will say this..... YOU are RIGHT !!!! This is what is WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY NOW!!!! You spent a large amount on money on this tractor and they want to take the money and run and forget you! I would be on the phone raising 7 kinds of cane! Bring my tractor back and the books and come get this out of here AND BRING MY MONEY BACK NOW!! If this is a good dealer it would never have happand in the first place, so do you think it will be any diffrent in the future? NO you can expect the same service. If you dont stand up for yourself they will walk all over you from now on! They should bend over backward to make this right, But they will come up with some excuse. Must not be much of a dealer ship if thay cant do what is agred apon. If any company wants to stay in busness they have to get the costumer service back like it should be not love-m-and leave-m!! just my 2 cents Bandit
 
Only one problem with your theory, it wasn't ready to go. No manual, no fuel and no top link. 3 strikes you're out. Dave
 
He spent thousands of dollars to buy a tractor from them and gives them explicit instructions regarding delivery and they totally ignore him. Even worse, when he calls them they laugh at him. Stopping payment was the best thing to do to get their attention! They should have given him the manual as soon as he made the deal so he could read it before the tractor even arrived. No top link so the tractor is useless and no fuel as well. This dealer's customer service is a joke. I don't think losing a sale will be a joke to the owner. There's lots of other tractors and dealers around that would be more than happy to sell a tractor. Dave
 
I guess that's why this place is called...CryBaby Corners.

I refer to customers such as this as the "5 percenters".

You have to spend 95% of your time with 5% of the customers.

Go ahead and throw your crybaby tantrum because some books didn't get delivered right away. I'll remember you very well when you want some work done on the tractor that COULD have been warranty, but I won't fight with the factory for you. More money in my pocket to offset all the whining you have done about every tiny detail.

It's a two way street between the dealer and customer. The guys that don't pout about everything get a much better deal in the beginning because I know that once the sale is made, I won't have to hold their hands every step of the way. They help me, I help them.

So go ahead and get it from another dealer. Drive the extra fifty miles any time you need a part. Pay a fortune when you have to get a service call from a hundred miles away. I have plenty of loyal customers who work together with me to "git-r-done".
 
(quoted from post at 08:03:47 12/26/09)
Go ahead and throw your crybaby tantrum because some books didn't get delivered right away.
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LEGALLY the dealer has to deliver the books with the tractor. If he got hurt the dealer is liable for that.

So you as a salesman may not give a crap, but when you and your dealer get sued for more than you could imagine.... To bad so sad.
 
Fuel issuse is bad.The books could have been delivered next day.Check your dealer out next time before making a large purchase.Personally I wouldn't ever have a piece of equipment delivered without being there to recieve it.That's how these peaing contests start.

Vito
 
Lets look at it this way. I expect the piece of equipment to be ready to go. I don't think I should have to "figure out" how to operate it. I expect it to be all there, nothing missing. I don't know about a full fuel tank but I would expect it to have enough fuel to test drive it. My solution to this kind of dealer is to tell all my friends and they tell all there friends. It soon becomes well known how you will be treated as a customer. I would not want that kind of reputation as a dealer.
 
(quoted from post at 08:03:47 12/26/09) I guess that's why this place is called...CryBaby Corners.

I refer to customers such as this as the "5 percenters".

You have to spend 95% of your time with 5% of the customers.

Go ahead and throw your crybaby tantrum because some books didn't get delivered right away. I'll remember you very well when you want some work done on the tractor that COULD have been warranty, but I won't fight with the factory for you. More money in my pocket to offset all the whining you have done about every tiny detail.

It's a two way street between the dealer and customer. The guys that don't pout about everything get a much better deal in the beginning because I know that once the sale is made, I won't have to hold their hands every step of the way. They help me, I help them.

So go ahead and get it from another dealer. Drive the extra fifty miles any time you need a part. Pay a fortune when you have to get a service call from a hundred miles away. I have plenty of loyal customers who work together with me to "git-r-done".
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Well,... why don't you post the name of the dealership where you're at (I dare you), and watch what happens to the number of your sales. LOL
 
I agree with you. Sometimes a guy just needs to keep his powder dry for the big things...
All this over a stupid manual?
I mean... I'm sure he'd get the manual in due course. I've had to wait for them before, sometimes for a couple of months and a few phone calls, but the dealer always came through with them. It's just one of those things. Sometimes they get lost in transit and new ones have to be ordered.... and really... I mean a manual is not at the top of a dealers priority list.

The other side I wonder about.... if he was this picky about the manual... probably hageled for days or weeks to screw the last nickle out of the deal and mabey they were just being pricks about it. Who knows.... The empty fuel tank makes me wonder about that. I've never had that happen for sure...
Otherwise, with a stop payment... I think I'd suggest the dealer go retreive the tractor, return the cheque and call it even. I don't need those kind of deals in my life and I doubt they do either.

Rod
 
It doesn't matter how he made the deal. They didn't have to sell him the tractor or even deal with him. The manual should have been with the tractor when the dealer received it and if not, the dealer should have been insisting on it from the OEM. The city here used to have all their tenders with a seperate clause regarding manuals; All machines to include 5 copies of the operators manual delivered with machine or prior to delivery. Some people think the manual isn't that important. Imagine if you didn't a manual with your first VCR? Imagine not getting a manual with a fancy new electronic combine with a zillion controls and features? There's no difference. The operating manual is a part of a new machine and has been almost since the first machine was ever made. Going 10 ft. and running out of fuel is pathetic after spending thousands of dollars on something. It sounds like NH is bad with providing manuals? A big dealer up used to sell NH and MF but the last time I went there, there was no NH anymore. I asked a guy there what happened and he said the new owners of NH insisted on dealers buying way more inventory than they could ever sell. Maybe that would explain why the dealer in question here doesn't include much of anything with a sale, including customer service? Maybe NH as the OEM isn't much better with dealer support? Dave
 
I think there's a whole lot of you guys completly off your nut.
It's a bloody manual!
I don't know what my dealer did with them in the past. I know sometimes they came with the tractor and other times we had to ask for it a few times. Might just have not been taken in the truck when the tractor was delivered, then it got set on a desk because they 'can pick it up next time they're over'.... and then we forget, and they forget and it gets lost... then it finally gets found.
I could see a newbie mabey ~needing~ a manual, but certainly not someone who was an experienced operator. I've yet to find a machine that I couldn't get on and get some action out of it without a book.
So yeah... I think the dealer in this case was probably cavalier about the manual. Mabey he even did it to push some buttons. I don't know.
I just know this is a massive overreaction about a book....

I've had tractors delivered and was here for the delivery. I've had machines dropped in the yard and found them when I got home. I've hauled them home in crates myself and assembled them, several times. I just know my dealer (at that time) and never worried about the details too much. He always looked after stuff as needed.
Other people I know pushed his buttons.... and I think a lot of them got bad responses. Those were always the complainers who could get nothing from him. Wonder why....

Rod
 
Bill, what did you decide in the end. How about giving us all a little feed back on this. Just remember that if you keep the tractor, you will pay BIG TIME at that dealer for any follow up parts or service. If you decide to keep it, find another dealer to get parts/service from. Tom
 
It's a bloody manual!
.....
Rod
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So would you let somebody you've talked to in passing (ie the dealer and this buyer) take your tractor home without any instruction or operating manual and have him put it to work. Would you let him grind the gears, and push all the levers with the potential that he has absolutely no idea what any of them does? You would also assume that he would check over all the fluids and grease all the fittings when he has no idea what to check?


And when he flips it over on himself because he was unfamiliar with using the loader, would you feel responsible?
 
(quoted from post at 17:45:23 12/26/09) I think if you stick to the little MTD "tractors" that you get at Home Depot you'll be fine.
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Home depot at least provides the manuals. Because they have been sued by people who don't get the manual and then chop their toes off with a lawn mower.
 
Suppose it was a tractor with a power shift like in a Case 2096. Ya, you could hop in it and drive it but if you tried to slow down in road gear without slowing the throttle down and got shot through the front window, when it down shifted, who's at fault? Not following the operating manual could also void the warranty. It's not just a "bloody manual", it's as vital to a new tractor as the tires. Had they gave him a thorough education on how everything works and said the manual was missing, but on its way, would be a little different but they didn't even do that. They ignored him repeatedly saying to not deliver it without the manual and then laughed at him when he asked why. That's totally unacceptable and then to not include the top link and have it run out of fuel, just pathetic. Maybe it's his first tractor? Maybe he wants his son or wife to be able to use it? It doesn't matter. If they're going to laugh at him because he wants a manual with his $XX,000 tractor, stopping payment will get their undidvided attention. What if it specifically says something like not to use starting fluid in the manual and it's damaged because he used some. Is it his fault? Will it be covered by warranty? The manual may seem trivial but look at all the people who will pay handsomely to get a manual for their older tractors and equipment. I'm sure NH doesn't want to be named in an injury lawsuit because of a pi$$ poor dealer. The manual is a big deal! Dave
 
Well.... if that's truly what you're dealing with, it firmly reinforces my believe that the dealer load the old tractor on the truck, neatly place it back in his yard, load the new one back on... and call it good.

Yeah, I think most people with an ounce or two of common sense can figure out how to work a modern tractor. They've got more than enough warning stickers, instruction stickers and safety devices.... that they're damn near idiot proof as it is. So yeah, if buddy comes in 2 days before christmas, raising hell to get his new tractor delivered because he wants to play with it and look at it over christmas break, yeah, he's going to get his silly tractor minus the manuals until I can find them.
I'd also not be surprised if the lack of fuel was an oversight brought on by the rush...
Mabey I'm wrong and the dealer was just screwing him around, but in my experience I'd say it played out more like I've suggested...

Rod
 
Well... if there's a dipwit out there who's going to take ANY 20+ year old tractor with whatever kind of powershift it had before PS was modulated, then yeah, he's going to get splattered on the windsheild.
Much to the consternation of the safety police I learned that at roughly 10 years of age in a Ford 7710. Drop Dual Power in high on black top, say hello to Mr. Windsheild. You'll only do it once. So far it's survived it untouched at 7500 hours so I'm not too worried about it.
And you know what? If it did blow up the first time, my dealer of the day would have been so embarrased that he'd cover it from his own pocket if Ford wouldn't. He fixed worse for rougher use when I worked for him off and on and I did some of the work....
A good relationship with your dealer is worth far more than a bit of bitching about a couple of books two days before christmas, especially when you'll get the books anyway.
Believe me, in the small amount of time I spent around that shop, I saw a few just such customers come through the door. He knew from the start that nothing he did would ever make them happy, so he probably didn't go out of his way to try. Others... he went the extra mile for, including us.
I can also recall the same kind of treatment from Atlantic Tractors. A 10K transmission rebuild in a 10 year old D4 at 2500 hours was covered at 50% by Atlantic Cat for nothing more than shame's sake because they knew by their own admission that it should not have failed in the way it did.
Do you really think this guy will ever receive that kind of service should such trouble arise?
I think we both know the answer to that....

Rod
 
So RodInNS you would be willing to let all your life assets (farm, tractor, house, retirement) hang in the balance of a jurys decision, because you failed to provide somebody with the legally required manual instructing them what to/not to do?


If so you obviously haven't been to many court proceedings.
 
Comes down to common sense... something obviously lacking in these parts.
If I felt the person was competent. Yes. If I didn't... then no.
It depends on the person...

Rod
 
Many times their are people who will deliberately lack in common sense in hopes of a big payout. And sometimes they succeed. As a dealer I wouldn't want to have to judge which ones are going to take me to the cleaners and which ones aren't. Judge wrong once and your out of business.

Seen many liability suits, and their judgements. As a dealer I'd want to cover all my bases as many times as possible (manual, demonstration, answering questions, etc).
 
How do you know that he wouldn't have been happy with anything the dealer did? The tractor he bought lists for over $26,000. Not exactly pocket change. If you got catapulted into the windshield on a new tractor because you didn't get a manual or proper instruction on how to use it, you could sue the dealer. If the tractor was damaged, the dealer would cover it from his own pocket if Ford didn't. That's an interesting theory but only a theory. I don't hear of any other OEM's not including the manual. If the manual isn't important how come the mechanics need it to set the tractor up as someone else had posted? You talk about having a good relationship with the dealer. Considering that there are more than one tractor dealer, wouldn't it make even more sense for the dealer to have a good relationship with the customer? Like I said before, if you bought a $250,000 combine, you'd need the manual that goes with it. There's no difference with a $26,000 tractor. Someone could be seriously injured because they weren't familar with the controls or how they work. Dave
 
Who said the manual WASN'T included? It wasn't delivered when requested. I didn't read anywhere in that where it wasn't included...
.....and if you really believe that someone is goign to get launched through the windsheild because they didn't have a book, then believe what you will. As far as I'm concerned, if that's where your operating abilities lay, something else is going to get you before long.... book, no book, instructor or otherwise. Darwin is coming for you.
I've read through most of the operators manuals I have, and I do have them for nearly every piece of equipment here, bought new or used.... but I've yet to find a day where the lack of a book prevented me from figuering out how to operate it. Mabey that's just me.... but I'd not get too upset over having to wait a week or two for the manual to be located or a new one ordered in if the original was lost.
There's just bigger things in life to worry about.

... and as far as my old dealer covering stuff... It's not much of a theory. We had an engine overhauled on a tractor that spun a bearing just outside warranty. We had to pay some but nothing near what it would normally cost. Wether he did that from his pocket or otherwise screwed it out of NH, I don't know. I just know that what we paid was in no way a reflection of the work done.
On the abuse aspect... I did the work on a customer's tractor for him at one time that was clearly the result of abuse. I told him as such, which he knew anyway... and his response was something to the effect that he would cover it anyway. Regardless. It happens, at least for some of us, wether you like to believe it or not.

Rod
 

After reading all the posts, I'd say that a lot of people are wasting a lot of the little time we all have on this earth making a mountain out of a molehill. No, I wouldn't have stopped payment. I probably would make sure I get the manual, however. I bought a used pickup truck from a GM dealer a few years ago that was missing the Owners manual. Sales guy said he'd find it and get it to me. Never did and when I remembered, I just got on Ebay and bought one for a few bucks, lots less than the gas and aggravation to drive 40 miles to pick it up.

As for the fuel, I don't expect a full tank. If they want to give it, fine, nice customer service touch. If not, fine also. As long as there's enough to get it unloaded. I'm sure you've got diesel on your place.

But you've decided to make a stand on principle and that's your choice. Though, as others have said, you'll not get the best customer service from that dealer.
 
When you work for a dealer, you're likely to get better service than other customers. People have been killed because they hopped on a machine without knowing how to properly operate it. There's a big warning label on my Cat that even says to read and fully understand the manual before operating. Certain things regarding operation need to be addressed. If everyone could figure out how every machine worked, I guess there'd never be any accidents. I sure hope when I go flying, the pilot read the manual. Dave
 
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