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OT/ Seat belts

C

cadet trooper

Well-known Member
I know this is definitely off topic but because I consider you folks my friends it hits home to me and everyone on here. About 6 weeks ago I was getting in my truck to head off to work and I'm not a morning person anymore since I left the farm anyway I was putting my stuff in the truck when I heard the most horrendous crash like a sheet of 4'X 8' X 1/2" steel being dropped from several stories. We live in the burbs so that sound is unusual at 6:30am. I live about 100yds from the main road back in a housing addition, I dreaded what I might see but I sped off to the main entrance to see what I could do and try to help. When I arrived it was unbelievable a late model SUV had collided with a small pickup truck headon. The SUV was southbound in it's own lane and the other vehicle was northbound in the southbound lane they had met headon at the crest of a hill. The last I heard the computer in the vehicle said she was running at the 45mph speed limit but the pickup was doing 65mph. The end result is when I arrived the 39 year old woman driver was in the back seat and the steering wheel was bent forward. She had her 2 year old daughter fastened down in her car seat and suffered a broken arm. The SUV was full of airbags that had been deflated I had a hard time finding the young lady just to hold her hand because no one wants to die alone and she was awake. I had to pull away right away because there was traffic coming and I didn't want have the scene collided into by unsuspecting drivers rearending an already serious situation. The tentative accident report is the oncoming driver had a heart attack and his vehicle traveled in the path of oncoming traffic and collided with the SUV. The driver of the SUV did not have her seat belt fastened and caused serious internal injuries which led to her death. That was the second double fatality I've ever came on in my life and I don't care if I ever see another one! The morrow of the story is make sure your loved ones fasten those seat belts before they move an inch. I was not a believer but my son is a cop and he's ragged on me forever and I am now!
 
Sad story.I always wear one.At least with the mandatory seatbelt law the next generation wouldn'y think twice about using them.

Vito
 
MONEY..The belts harnasses etc are a great item,and undoubtedly save many lives and reduce injury..however,I do not at all like being told I must wear one or be penalized.The insurance companies are the ones that pushed and shoved the mandatory belt laws,air bag requirements etc down our throats..to save them money,period.And yes I wear mine usually,but I don't like it.
 
I put mine on after I drive the 3 miles down our back road and pick up the mail at the PO. I put it on then because I'll be d...ed if I'll pay $50 for a taillight out or ???.
 
I don't agree with seatbelt OR helmet laws. Seems to be government as my nanny! BUT, I have, and will always wear them! When I took the driving course for FedEx, they said the seat belt was to keep us in the drivers seat, so we could try to guide the vehicle if we could. Without a seatbelt on in one of their trucks, you would not be ANYWHERE near the controls if you were thrown out of the seat! Greg
 
So , Greg , if what you said is true about not being able to control your vehicle after an altercation because you wouldn't be any where near the controls (which is very true statement) then why shouldn't it be a law to have the belt on??? I empathize with the oppinion of less government is better but this has nothing to do with government and everything to do with motor vehicle and human safety. Did you know it is also against the law to drive barefoot??? There are very ligitimate reasons for these laws. Do you also know that it is a PRIVELEGE" to even drive on public roads and NOT a "RIGHT"??? The person comming the other way at you at 55 mph only 6' away from your vehicle have a RIGHT to know that you are not drunk , not distracted by a cell phone arguement with your wife , not on drugs , not speeding , not driving a piece of junk with the tie-rods about to let loose , not asleep at the wheel and not to mention that by chance you have a valid drivers liscense and just maybe insurance? There are laws pertaining to all these and more because that other person has a right to NOT DIE because you don't believe in the written laws because you don't agree with them and they infringe on YOUR rights! What you do or don't do in your own home is your own bussiness but what you do or don't do in public is not. Smokers in Michigan will learn that in MAY 2010. You can't come into my bussiness drinking a bottle of beer , why should you be able to come in and stink it up with your cigarettes and then throw your butts on the sidewalk outside? You , GREG , wear your seatbelt and helmet because you are SMART!! Others NEED a law , if not to protect them then at least to protect the innocent.
 
Personally I wear one and some years back it probably saved my life when I got hit head on by a reckless driver. I credit my walking away to both the seat belt and the heavy construction of the "88 F150 I was driving vs the car the other guy was in. The other guy survived and was eventually OK from what I heard but he was bad enough he had to be airlifted from the crash site. The collision pushed the front of my truck back to the point it crumpled the floorboard under my feet and pushed the passenger side of his car past the middle console.

While I believe in wearing my seat belt I was also in another crash where I wasn"t wearing a belt and walked away just fine also. The thing is when asked was I wearing a belt do you think I said NO and chance getting a ticket for that when I wasn"t at fault for the accident?

Personally I think wearing one is a good idea but I also believe that it should be a personal choice. Too I believe that the statistics used to push the legislation through was inaccurate due to accidents such as the second one I described, and due to the fact that an increase in speed limit, an increase in the amount of drivers on the road, a decrease in the cost of gas/increase in total miles driven, etc all account for something too. Any of these factors can have just as big of effect on the total numbers of fatalities for each time period used as anything and everything else can.
 
To steal a phrase.
Nothing galls me more than our own recent seat belt law. $125 fine and a moving violation for not wearing them.
Nothing to do but wear them now. At least during the day. But believe me when I tell you I'm sitting here quietly grinding my axe. And I'll be the first one who is gonna rise up and smash the nanny state.
Nothing in my lifetime has imposed the law upon my person like this one has.
 
Obviously you have never lost anyone because of any of these "violations of drivers rights"! I have. No sermon but if that's the way you take it then i will have to assume some or all of my post applies to you. I bet everything your Dad told you growing up was a "sermon" also.
 
Just lost a friend who was thrown out of his car and had it roll over on him.
I complain about wearing them and my motorcycle helmet,but wear them anyway because I understand the consequences.
 
Several years ago, my wife walked away from a head-on collision caused by a 17 year old girl who was jabbering on her cell phone instead of paying attention to her driving. She was driving a '77 GMC pickup. The engine in the pickup wound up crossways by the firewall, so you know it was a horrendous impact. My wife was driving a Pontiac minivan, and the engine of that was shoved into the floor.

The law officers at the scene said if it hadn't been for the air bag and belts, there's no way my wife could have survived. Several days later, from the top of her left shoulder to her right hip, and across her abdomen, she had a five inch wide band from the belts that was the darkest purple I've ever seen on a person.

The gal driving the pickup wasn't wearing a her belts. She survived but got her face messed up pretty bad. For the rest of her life she'll be reminded of her stupidity every time she looks into a mirror.

Made a believer out of me.
 
My understanding is that insurance rates are set by the loss record and larger payouts, in the long run high losses, allow them to raise rates and improve the company's bottom line. They have a better grip on the personal, benefits of seat belt use because of the crashes they see. This is why they encourage the use of them. Signed, Insurance Stockholder
 
yep, and what about the many injuries and fatalities from people t-boned from the side that were hurt because they were wearing their seatbelt. It all comes down to we were sold a bill of good cuz big brother just had to watch out for us. Some people are just gullible enough to think its no big deal to have everything we do or can't do dictated by the government. TO many people sat back and let this crap become law forgeting it is still WE THE PEOPLE.
 
Very sorry to hear that. I'm sure that you were a great comfort to the injured woman. In a big majority of collisions, seat belts have saved lives and prevented more serious injuries. There are some exceptions where not wearing a seat belt prevented serious injury. Driving a motor vehicle is a privilege and some times seat belts can be a pain but they are there to protect you from the unexpected. It's not a big conspiracy. Anybody that rides a motorcycle without a helmet has a death wish. Just ask Gary Busey, he was a big advocate against mandatory helmets until he had a bad crash and hit his head. If you don't like seat belts, hop in a sprint car or a dragster. The 5 point harness is pulled as tight as possible and they have to be changed every 2 years(maybe sooner) because they stretch. You almost become part of the car you're strapped in so tight. Even though they are mandatory here, I would bet that most people driving 3 ton and up trucks aren't wearing them. You never know what is going to happen when you get on the road. Dave
 
I have noticed over the years in my area that in most of the roll overs where someone was badly hurt or killed, they were thrown out of the vehicle. Now if they would have fastened their seat belt.....
 
I've been wearing seat belts my entire adult life. I don't even notice them. In fact, something seems amiss if I'm not wearing a seat belt. I don't need any government rule for me to do it.

Christopher
 
I don't like my medical tax dollars paying thousands or millions over a lifetime for a cripples care. When all they could have walked away from a wreck if they had worn their seat belt.
Ever see any Nascar drivers fight for their right to not wear a seat belt?
 
Seat belts DO NOT keep you from being thrown out in a roll over but KILL you in the prosses of throwing you out. 18 year old cousin driving her to be's (also cousin on other side) pickup on rainy night on newely paved road with no markings and no gravel berm. Found her laying out of truck with a broken neck where it was obviouce that the belt did it. Patrol determined that belt was fastened as supposed to be and was still in working condition. Patrol put in his field hand written report the her to be had to sign that the belt had caused her death. When it came time to sign the official typewritten report that was all removed. Asked why, told IT IS ILLEAGLE TO PUT ANYTHING IN AN AXIDENT REPORT THAT SHOWS A BELT IN ANY WAY BUT A GOOD LIGHT. One way of falsifieng the statickets. Her sister at 17 was also throwen out but only had a broken pelvis.
A few years before there was a roll over acident reported on TV a Caddy convert with 5 belts and 6 passengers. The sole surviver was the one boy that was luckey enough to get the seat without the belt. They had him talking on the TV news, later the station had to deneigh they ever had aired the truth on that acident to keep their licence. Please excuse the spelling.

I WISH THEY WOULD MAKE THOSE !!!! BELTS ILEAGAL
 
Youngest BIL will NOT EVER wear his seat belt! 22 years ago this Thanksgiving he was thrown from the passenger side of a car that was hit broadside by a semi. His brother was killed instantly. The semi was totaled! He thinks, and after having to deal with the wreckage at the impound lot I believe him, that he would have been killed as the semi drove completely thru the car. I still wear my belt, as the percentages are on my side, but this one incident convinced him otherwise. Greg
 
Can anyone tell me why this damn ERROR message comes up and blocks my reply.I have seem many accidents where people get thrown out and killed in minor accidents.
 
The sheep go willingly to slaughter.
Is the nanny state going to outlaw soda pop because it rots the teeth of welfare kids?
Is the state going to outlaw children born out of wedlock? Is the state going to euthanize babies born with terrible birth defects? Or old people? Or retarded peple? Is the state going to outlaw smoking? Outlaw alcohol because of what it costs society? Outlaw guns and cars because of how many cripples they leave? Outlaw unprotected secks because of Aids? Outlaw stupidity?
Is the state going to mandate ROPS on old tractors?
Fact: MN does not have a motorcycle helmet law. Because the motorcycle lobby was more powerful than the insurance lobby. How's that for irony?
What has happened with the recent smoking bans and now the seat belt law is a usurpation of property rights and personal freedom. Those two laws, more than any laws in my lifetime have set a precedent for the nanny state to control our behavior. Watch for more and more intrusive laws to come down the pike. Watch for your ox to get gored.
You want to wear seat belts? Then wear them. We all know it is the prudent thing to do. But don't pass laws that control my person. It's Unamerican. It's anti Liberty. And it's for darned sure a slippery slope once you go down that road.
 
I used to think the same, I got 2 tickets within 2 weeks for seat belts in Mn. Then a few years ago a friend of mine rolled his pickup at slow speed, would have survived but got thrown out and pickup rolled over him, after that I started wearing them and now it's kind of a habit I don't even think about putting it on or wearing them. I don't wear them if I am driving a 1/2 mile to the field or to check cows.
 
Does anyone remember how the politicians promised that cops would NEVER be able to stop someone for not wearing a seat belt in order to get the belt laws passed?

Dean
 
I do believe it is more about revenue and less about public safety, that the fines are excessive and that the matter of personal rights should be considered. I simply chose to use them.
 
being a body shop owner, and having worked in insurance claims for many years, the new vehicle designs with the sir systems (supplemental restraint systems) the occupants need to wear the belts in order for everything to work correctly. many of the newer cars also have active seat belts. in the event of a collision, the seat belt will automatically tension up to hold the occupant securely and in position while the air bag deploys. seat belts and air bags have saved far more lives than those who did not wear them. sure, there is some brusing and contact rash for the bag deployment, but is a lot less painful than impaling your chest on a steering column or having your head go thru the winshield.
 
Leroy, It can happen that the seat belt can kill or seriously injure a person but in my opinion the majority of the times it is better to have it fastened. In most of the rollovers that I mentioned reading about, the person was hurt by the vehicle landing on them. I have noticed that a lot of those roll overs with fatalities around our area are with pickup trucks.
 
You said...Obviously you have never lost anyone because of any of these "violations of drivers rights"! I have. No sermon but if that's the way you take it then i will have to assume some or all of my post applies to you. I bet everything your Dad told you growing up was a "sermon" also."""

You would be incorrect. I WOULD HAVE lost my Dad had he been wearing a seat belt years ago. He was driving his work van when a crash occurred and it rolled. He ended up in the passenger seat, a very large air compressor end up in the drivers seat.

You can CHOOSE to wear one if you like. I choose not to. But the nanny state can pull me over and give me a ticket for it as a primary offense.
So it is all about revenue collection, nothing more. Just like red light cameras. Same thing.
They don't ticket the driver of the vehicle who actually committed the offense, they ticket the OWNER of the vehicle.

I would like to see alcohol eliminated completely as it kills thousands of innocent people per year.
Are you in favor of that?
 
I'm cognizant of the success rate of seat-belt use. I'm also aware of the health benefits (on average) for not smoking, not drinking alcohol, not using a chainsaw, not heating your home with a wood fire, not jumping in a lake and swimming, not running an old farm tractor that lacks modern safety equipment, not riding ATVs, snowmobiles, motorcycles, etc. In fact, walking or using mass transit, statistically, is much safer then driving any car with any safety gear. Probably never leaving home and living on welfare is a very safe life-style.

And so what? Does freedom of choice and personal responsibility mean anything anymore?

I don't enjoy tragedies. That is part of living and sometimes part of the personal choices we make.

For those concerned, maybe a wavier system is what we need. We agree to sign off on holding any taxpayer supported program from taking care of us when we screw up? But, if that is done, I think the list needs to be much longer than just for not wearing seat-belts.

Note also that some people have been killed because they DID wear seatbelts, and/or were killed by airbags. A minority, yes, but it happens. I was almost killed wearing a mandated safety harness in a bucket 40 feet in the air. I had to cut myself loose.

Maybe we need to outlaw stupidity? Better yet, make accidents illegal?
 
I've had seatbelts since 1959. My sister was in a car driven by another lady going to a bowling tournament back in 1964 and was hit headon by a teen driving a Corvette. My sister's head went thru the windshield and was severely cut about the face. Had she had her seat belt on she probably wouldn't been hurt so bad. I don't think they ever did anything with the teen. The lady driving had more serious issues beside being hurt she had psychological
problems the rest of her life. Now my nephew won't wear a seat belt since he thinks you will die from a fire. He's even gotten a buck slip so he doesn't have to wear one. I told him
if 300 pounds goes airborne he isn't going live either or be a veggie on life support. Hal
 
I hope we never do have a helmet law (I am an avid motorcycle rider, and wear my helmet when I deem necessary). I was also pulled over for a seat belt, but never ticketed. Local officer told me he had pulled over and ticketed 12 people in two hours and I was the only one who admitted to not wearing a seat belt. Lets see.... 12 people in two hours, at 125.00 a person... I would say that they are making money... Drove by a local four way and there were eight police officers standing on each corner plus the medians writing tickets. Good thing I am going to school to become a police officer. At least I know I will have a corner to stand on. Ha ha.
 
Up here seat belt use is in the 90% or so. Something like 75% of people killed in car crashes in this province are not wearing seat belts.

Best of my knowledge the seat belt wearers get in just as many crashes.

The big reason for enforcement is in a minor incident of leaving the road, people without seatbelts on can get tossed away from the steering wheel and brakes and end up coasting into oncoming traffic killing other people.
 
Years ago, when my daughter was in high school, she asked me if I would wear my seat belt if I knew I was going to have an accident on my way to work?
About the same time, my son purchased a 67 Camero that did not have factory installed seat belts. He was reluctent to drive it until I installed seat belts, so I installed a lap belt. About one week later he flipped the car on a wet road and ended up in a ditch upside down. He only had a small cut on his forehead.
They formed their opinion of seat belts from "drivers ed." in school.
 
Enter New York from Pennsylvania, you see signs "Headlights on with Wipers" , "No Hand Held Cell Phone Use", "No Littering", and "Seat Belts Must be Worn", etc. Big Brother is taking care of us? "Click It or Ticket"

A man came into court with a seat belt ticket, his excuse was that he was too "Big" for his belt to reach around him. Should the violation have been for obesity? The ticket was dismissed, and ordered him to get seat belt extensions which he did.
 
Just about everyone, including me, has a story about someone who was better off not wearing a seat belt than wearing one. But that having been said, anyone who works EMS, including me, will tell you that the odds of you being better off unbelted are very tiny compared to being belted. When you are on the road, you're playing the odds - only the uninformed would recommend *not* wearing a seat belt.
 
First of all, I also commend you for staying there with her so she wouldn't pass alone.

Now, in response to those who argue about having to wear seatbelts is a violation of their rights. What if you choose not to wear a seatbelt and are involved in an accident and you die because you weren't wearing your belt? Now there is an out of control vehcile with a dead man behind the wheel careening towards ME. What about my rights?
 
I don't see anyone here advocating not wearing seat belts. Plenty of stories/reasons point to using them. My point is Liberty. It is unconstitutional to mandate their use. No different than involuntary sterilization of mothers (or fathers for that matter) who have more than one or two children born out of wedlock and on welfare.
 
Also no points were to be give if you did get a ticket for not wearing one. Yes I rememver the lies well. You should see the Troopers strain their neck trying to see if you have your seatbelt on.
 
You are 10000% correct, our freedoms have been insiduously but steadily eroded for years and the politicians who want to lord over every facet of our lives pick causes such as smoking or seatbelts in order to try to make anybody who objects appear unreasonable. whenever I hear a politician say they are doing something or other for the ''children'' I know its time to bend over again. I think property rights will be next, either we will be taxed off our land or simply legislated out of any real semblance of ownership. My Wife and I have worked all our lives and done without so we could afford to buy our place and get it paid for. The only thing I ever really cared about owning was my land, if the day ever comes where I am robbed of my land then I will be on the 6 o'clock news.
 
This guy. Most of the posters here don't get it. Wear a seat belt, don't wear one. But leave the decision up to the driver. Damm cops are nothing but revenue producers anymore.

Ultradog MN


I don't see anyone here advocating not wearing seat belts. Plenty of stories/reasons point to using them. My point is Liberty. It is unconstitutional to mandate their use. No different than involuntary sterilization of mothers (or fathers for that matter) who have more than one or two children born out of wedlock and on welfare
 
Oh come on! Why not say you're violating a two year old's rights by not giving him a loaded shotgun? You're blowing everything out of context. Somethings we have no control over,(Heart attacks and strokes), but we do have control over buckling up.
 
El Toro, Many years ago we fooled around with stock cars. We had one built with the roll bars etc and were having a few beers and driving it around in the pasture. My buddy was driving without the seat belt and turned up hill on a bank and rolled it slow. Now I was walking right behind him and could see all of the action through where the rear window was removed. I could not believe how he tumbled around inside of there with just a slow roll. He didn't have a shirt on and got scratched up a bit. It was lucky that he didn't fall out. I was walking through the grass with shorts on and can tell you that the spilled battery acid on the legs didn't feel too well.
 
What gets me going. Is getting a ticket for not wearing a seat belt from a cop on a motorcycle. Had a guy in the next town killed in a roll over. Seat belt did him no good. So I guess it goes both ways.
 
[i:654c4848f0]Oh come on! Why not say you're violating a two year old's rights by not giving him a loaded shotgun?[/i:654c4848f0]

Let's all engage in a little hyperbole to make our point shall we?

[i:654c4848f0]Somethings we have no control over[/i:654c4848f0]

You are correct. But if the nanny staters have their way they will control it all.
 
to: ultradog in MN.
agree with your stance 100 %, seat belts do save lives, but some of the stastics are skewered by the reoprting and too many personel freedoms are being taken away. as to the point you make about children born out of wedlock. wisconsin has already addressed that. If you are the father of a child in Wi and not married to the mother, fines, fees, and other legal costs, (having to adopt your own child,even though your name is on the birth cert.) add up to about $5500.00. child services gets involved, and that costs also.
 
Can't resist this one. Simple fact is that seatbelts save lives.

First off you are a real saint for staying with the victim.

Here in Michigan we are required to wear them and I always do. This spring I got rear-ended while stopped in the road for a garbage truck and the pickup truck that hit me was doing 50mph in a 30mph zone. The impact was so severe that it broke the driver's seat in my 2004 Impala and totaled the car. The seatbelt sensor tightened the belt up to keep me in the seat during the accident. I didn't realize it until a day or so later but I had bruising in my ribs and chest area. I am convinced that the seatbelt saved me from serious injury.

I used to ride a motorcycle and never considered riding without a helmet. I fell a few times in my days and would have been seriously injured without a helmet.

People don't drive as cautiously today and most of them are on the phone. I think driving is more dangerous than ever before. I'll take an extra level of protection any day.
 
First off. I kind of agree with both sides of the argument. Us vs the "State". I always had seat belts installed in my cars going back to the early 60s. It made good sense to me to save my A__ in a wreck. I was involved in a real nasty wreck in the mid 1960s. Brother was driving I was in the back seat with no seat belt availabe. We went off the edge of the road at high speed and flipped eight times for a distance of 280 feet down the middle of Hwy 41 in Florida. My brother and a buddy where not injured. They had on seat belts. I put out all of the rear windows with my head and legs. The last flip put me out the now open rear door. Suffered a deep gash on my leg and almost lost my left ear. I was attached to that ear and didn't want to loose it. Ha. A seat belt would have saved me a lot of pain and loss of work.
Point. Law or no law I will take the seat belt every time. It makes good sense.
 
You may think what ever you like about this idea; it comes from a slightly crazed lay-person. For a long time I have felt that the act of using belts is a reminder that we are not immortal and that helps us to be better drivers. Most of the people hurt and killed in crashes were younger than then I am.
 
I don't understand why people have difficultly dealing with a seatbelt requirement. It fits in the same category as speed limits, stop signs, traffic lights, drivers license, and even driving on the correct side of the road. There are rules that need to be followed to insure the safety of everyone on the roads. Driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
 
No it doesn't fit in with the rest. If you choose not to wear a seat belt, you are NOT putting other people in danger. Quite different than driving too fast, being on the wrong side of the road, etc. That is a rediculous comparison.

Now, if you did not allow someone else to wear one, that is a different story.

The privilege thing is also nonsense as I see it. At what point does a perceived "right" become only a "privilege?" When some appointed authority says so? We say we have a "right" to be free, but if we break certain laws, we lose our freedom. So how come one thing is called a "right" and another only a "privilege."

The fact is, at one time driving was a "right." Then it got taken away and then was just called a "privilege."
 
And that proves what? #1 you managed to roll over your car, and #2 you chose to wear a seat belt? That if fine with me, but don't tell me what to do.

So, somehow you feel your experience is all that is needed to force everyone else to do as you do?

Do I have to roll over my car too?

Been driving over 40 years and haven't done it yet. If I do, well . . . either it's my own stupid fault, and someone piled into me and forced me over.

How many other drivers on the road did you put in danger from your rollover? In NY, state law says a driver is required to keep the vehicle in control at all times. So, should we pass a law against rolling over?
 
So, I take it then you like the new NY City laws putting regs on high calorie foods and transfats at fast food places. I.e., it's the law trying to force us from getting heart attacks and strokes.

So, I work by butt off, do NOT get fat, and yet am no longer allowed to buy a good cheeseburger? That because of some other pencil pusher getting a heart attack at age 30?

This is the slippery-slope nonsense that is slowly taking away our freedoms.
 
(quoted from post at 19:53:26 12/17/09) So , Greg , if what you said is true about not being able to control your vehicle after an altercation because you wouldn't be any where near the controls (which is very true statement) then why shouldn't it be a law to have the belt on??? I empathize with the oppinion of less government is better but this has nothing to do with government and everything to do with motor vehicle and human safety. Did you know it is also against the law to drive barefoot??? There are very ligitimate reasons for these laws. Do you also know that it is a PRIVELEGE" to even drive on public roads and NOT a "RIGHT"??? The person comming the other way at you at 55 mph only 6' away from your vehicle have a RIGHT to know that you are not drunk , not distracted by a cell phone arguement with your wife , not on drugs , not speeding , not driving a piece of junk with the tie-rods about to let loose , not asleep at the wheel and not to mention that by chance you have a valid drivers liscense and just maybe insurance? There are laws pertaining to all these and more because that other person has a right to NOT DIE because you don't believe in the written laws because you don't agree with them and they infringe on YOUR rights! What you do or don't do in your own home is your own bussiness but what you do or don't do in public is not. Smokers in Michigan will learn that in MAY 2010. You can't come into my bussiness drinking a bottle of beer , why should you be able to come in and stink it up with your cigarettes and then throw your butts on the sidewalk outside? You , GREG , wear your seatbelt and helmet because you are SMART!! Others NEED a law , if not to protect them then at least to protect the innocent.
Click to expand...
I agree completely!!!
 
I guess I should have specified, driving is right, driving in public is not a right. It is a privilege that can be taken away. As populations increase and more people take advantage of this privilege, the rules change to protect the majority.

The core of the disagreements in this thread seem to be generational. I turned 30 this year, wearing a seatbelt has been the law for my entire life. To ME the seatbelt requirement is just one more requirement for the privilege of driving on public highways and is not something that enters my mind any more than driving on the right side of the road.

In 30 years I may share similar frustrations when things I have taken for granted are taken away, I won't know until I get there. I do believe I should have listened to my better judgment and stayed away from this discussion...
 
[i:654c4848f0]I don't understand why people have difficultly dealing with a seatbelt requirement[/i:654c4848f0]

Because the requirement is unconstitutional. It is taking away our rights. Our freedom of choice.
Let's say for the sake of conversation some one wants to make it illegal to say the "N" word.
That word is universally a no no so why even have it. Why Not make such an offensive word illegal? So we outlaw it. Then another group comes along and wants to ban the "C" word - pertaining to women. So we ban that word too. And make a fine for using it.
Now what other words are there that people don't like to hear. Let's ban them too.
You see where it goes?
The first time you abridge our freedom of speech (except shouting fire in the theater) you start down a slippery slope that has no end to it.
The same thing is happening with the seat belt laws. And as jdmaris has mentioned, fat content laws, proposed soda pop laws and the list goes on and on.
We have allowed them to pass an unconstitutional law because seat belts are good for us. But the price you paid for the safety of the seat belt is not worth the cost in lost liberty.
Ben Franklin said it best.
"Those who trade their liberty for safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
 

I got in a accident about 10 years ago, hit the median barrier on I96. Totaled a Safari van. Didn't realize how hard I hit until I took off my shirt that night. I had a bruise the width of the belt on my shoulder and my chest. If I hadn't worn the belt, I wouldv'e gone thru the windshield.
 
JD- I'm not sure if you were actually looking for answers or not, but I'll try to explain.

My point here was simply that seatbelts do save lives. They even save the lives of people who don't believe in their use. People that dispute this are not really worth arguing with. I wasn't trying to broach the subject of forcing someone to wear one.

I was fortunate that a mailbox and my truck were the only things injured (actually totaled) in my accident. The fact that you haven't had a similar accident in all your years of driving probably means that you are a better driver than me, congratulations. If I ever end up riding in your truck I'll still be wearing a seatbelt (even if you do not). I require all of my passengers to wear one, they can walk if they refuse.
 
Wearing a seat belt doesnt insure safty for anyone but the wearer,Its a lot different then speed limits and stop signs ETC.I always wear one but still dont like it to be a law,I think you will find insurance companys are behind that law.
 
(quoted from post at 11:44:39 12/18/09) JD- I'm not sure if you were actually looking for answers or not, but I'll try to explain.

My point here was simply that seatbelts do save lives. They even save the lives of people who don't believe in their use. People that dispute this are not really worth arguing with. I wasn't trying to broach the subject of forcing someone to wear one.

I was fortunate that a mailbox and my truck were the only things injured (actually totaled) in my accident. The fact that you haven't had a similar accident in all your years of driving probably means that you are a better driver than me, congratulations. If I ever end up riding in your truck I'll still be wearing a seatbelt (even if you do not). I require all of my passengers to wear one, they can walk if they refuse.
Click to expand...

Well said, Mathias.
BYW, I'm of the older generation. :D

Ronnie
 
To the converse, I put seat belts in some of my cars in the 60s that did not have them OEM and there were no legal requirements. Why? Because I drove like a fool and liked being strapped in, while I drank my sixpack and cruised.

Now? No, I will not wear one. Don't worry, I don't drink anymore. I only stick a belt on when I see a State Trooper staring my way.

"Right" and "privilege" are both made up words. In fact, any "right" will take away other "rights" so all is a trade off. In fairness, our rights need control where they meet other people's rights and conflict. I.e. my right to punch you in the nose, takes away your right NOT TO GET PUNCHED, etc. &c.

Driving a car even on a public road certainly was considered a right at first. Then cars got common, people got hurt, and things changed. I've got no problem with that, it's a good thing. But, I find the use of the word "privilege" silly. Is walking the streets free and not living in jail a right of freedom? When someone gets found guilty of a crime and is sent to jail, has their "right" of freedom been taken away, or their "privilege?"
You might argue that privileges are earned and rights are intrinsic but revokeable? So, what happened to the "right to bear arms?" The "right" of property ownership? We no longer own property, when we can lose it by not paying taxes forced on us.
I'll stop, but we certainly don't see things the same way.
 
I smacked a steering wheel once with my face, wasn"t wearing my seatbelt. Trust me, I wear it now. I Didn"t like how that wheel tasted, or all the blood I tasted afterwards.

I live on a dangerous road, had two bad wrecks within a month this summer. One guy flipped six times one way and three another, ended up upside down in the neighbors yard. He was messed up, but had his seatbelt on and was alive. Helicopter landed in our hayfield and took him out. Up the road 1/4 mile another guy flipped his truck once. He wasn't wearing the seatbelt and his truck landed on top of him. He left in a hearse.
 
jdemaris, you are absolutely WRONG!! I missed being crushed to death by about five seconds. A couple of cars collided at the intersection where my firehouse is. I was just going out to back in the medic sitting on the front ramp. I was about 30 feet back when I heard the crash. I started to run out to see what had happened when a car smashed into the side of the medic I was getting ready to get into, right on the drivers side. The woman driving the car smashed into the windshield a second time because she was unconscious from the first impact. Had she been wearing her seat belt, she may not have been knocked out, and she may have been able to apply the brakes and not hit a second time. She has permanent brain damage now, and you and I are footing the bill for her healthcare.
Many accidents were made worse because a driver had a small impact or went off a shoulder and lost control of the vehicle because they came out of their seat. Then they had a second impact, that could have been avoided if they had been able to stay behind the wheel and regain control.
Anyone that thinks seatbelt laws are unconstitutional, a violation of personal rights, or just not necessary is just a fool. If you had seen as many people including children thrown around and ejected from cars as I have, you'd agree.
And so far here in Iraq, the only soldiers who have been killed in MRAP's (Mine Resistant, Armor Protected) where NOT properly wearing their restraints. That's a fact.
 
I'd like to see you or anyone else PROVE that seatbelt laws are uncontitutional. What a ridiculous statement. That would mean that making you get a license to operate a motor vehicle would be unconstitutional. Wearing a seatbelt is just a condition which you must operate a vehicle on a public road. As is being free from intoxicating substances. And having a certain minimum eyesight.
You are not restricted in traveling anywhere, you can walk to anyplace you want to in this country.
 
"You are not restricted in traveling anywhere, you can walk to anyplace you want to in this country. "

For now, maybe. Maybe they'll set up cameras to stop us from that, too.
 
There's no law saying it's "illegal" to write an accident report saying a seatbelt caused death or injury. If the belt was fastened as it was supposed to be, your cousin could not have been thrown from the truck unless the truck was torn apart. I've been on enough accidents to know that ain't gonna happen that way. It is possible for someone to snap their neck when properly restrained, but that is usually because of excess speed and hitting something immovable.
 
And I bet the seatbelt fines the "nanny state" collects don't come anywhere close to paying for the vegetables on life support being paid for by medicaid and medicare.
 
So if someone told you not to put your hand on a hot stove, would you do it anyway because you didn't like them telling you not to and they made you mad? If something is a good idea, works, and makes sense, why are so many people PO'd that it's a law? Amazes me how many people will fight for their right to be stupid. It's not like they're passing a law to prevent you from putting food on the table, or go where you want to when you want to.
 
I see your point. Seat belts are the law and fines are good because it is too expensive to pay for people on life support.

.So I say then, for the common good of the people, we really need to ban alcohol. It has no nutritional value, no medicinal purposes and it kills thousands and thousands of people each year.
We spend billions each year on medical problems related to alcohol. If the nanny state is going to ban certain cheeseburgers and foods, why not booze?
How many people do you scoop up each year that died from someone using alcohol?
 
Are you unfamiliar with red light cameras, speeding cameras etc.?

If you are familiar with them, can you explain how they have anything to do with punishing people for breaking the law?
 
the worst job to have in regards to seatbelts is rural mail carrier. they cannot wear a seatbelt to do their job properly. That makes for a bad habit off the clock.


karl f
 
That is a rediculous stretch and an anecdotal event. For every such rare event you can dream up, I can supply one to counter it. Do you really believe that there is a high amount of people hurting other people because they didn't wear seat belts?

I stated "If you choose not to wear a seat belt, you are NOT putting other people in danger."

And yes, I stand by it. A general statement and generally true. Does it happen once in a blue moon? Well yeah. You can get killed by a bottle falling out an airplane too, and landing on your head.

With any kind of reasonable expectations, the only way somebody is putting you in danger by them not wearing a seat-belt, is . . . if they fly through the windshield like a bullet, fly through the air, and run straight into you. Even worse if they're wearing an old German spiked helmet.

To call anyone that does not see things your way a "fool" is childish. Are we back in grammar school?

It's my opinion that anybody that believes that forcing people to wear seat belts as a "right" of government, is a heck of a lot more a off kilter then me. Scary too. Believing seat belts make you generally safer, I agree. But that is a different subject.
 
I've never denied the added safety factor a seat-belt can provide. My argument is . . . except in rare cases, my lack of using a seat belt puts nobody in danger except for me.

You compared mandated seat belt laws to speeding, driving on the wrong side of the road, running stop signs, etc.

Speeding and driving on the wrong side etc. puts other people in danger and needs to be kept in check. Not my use, or lack of use, of a seat belt. It endangers nobody.

That fact that some people don't understand that simple concept is a bit scary and makes me lose hope for this country. That is how our freedoms slowly slip away.
 
JD, Ultradog - You might be surprised to learn that I actually do share many of your views regarding the governments involvement in our lives. Right or privilege are just words and their differences are really just technicalities. Our government is headed toward socialism (if we aren't already there). This is counter to the ideas that this country is founded on, however government is run like a popularity contest and the masses aren't strong willed enough to have their own opinions.

With that said, I still think seat-belts are a good idea, regardless of why people may be wearing them.
 
That is what the Auglaize post of the Ohio state patrol told them as to why it was removed. And they did all the tests and everything on the belts and could find nothing wrong. And the truck was not torn apart, probably could have been easily repaired and put back on the road. The cut markes were in her neck when found. And it was just that 2" drop on the edge of the blacktop that caused her to loose control. And it was determined that speed was not a factor.
 
Ah, the old "Rights" argument, what about responsibility?
You do not have the "right" to drive on a 2 lane road and pass me at a combines speed of 120 mph.

You are allowed the "privledge" of driving on that two lane road, AFTER you have shown that you are capable of doing it safely for both my and your protection.

Driving is a dangerous occupation, you and I have the "responsability" of driving as safely as possible so not to put the burden of caring for you and your family if you get in a wreck that puts you in a nursing home on the public dollar for the next 30 years.

You have no "right" to needlessly endanger yourself if it may cost the rest of us for decades. That is the responsability part of being an adult and demanding adult privleges.

For that reason, mandatory seat belt laws are totally reasonable to keep us from taking stupid risks that can hurt everyone directly or financially.
 
Folks, I will tell you that I"ve been through a war and seen too many people die but it was a situation where that is expected but when someone is doing for the most part what they are supposed to do except protect themselves and still had their life ended so early it will stay with me forever and I feel if I saved one life from this post I"ve helped her memory. I don"t know if even with her seat belt fastened it would have saved her with a closing rate of over 100+ mph. The saddest part is her husband was a member of the local city fire and rescue unit. Thanks for your posts! Have a safe holiday. CT
 
If you guys want to kill yourselves with seat belts fine with me but do dot make me use one. That is the most blantently unconstitunal law ther ever was. To make you either a law breaker or put your lives at risk to keep from breaking the law is not right. The only reason the goverment passed that law is because enough of the lawmakers were bought off, nothing to do with safty.
 
Wearing a seat belt will also prevent you from becoming a middle in the vehicle and injuring other occupants. So now whose rights are being violated?
Should we stop belting infants into safety seats as we are violating their rights too.
We may as well drop drinking and drug laws as responsible people don't need laws.
 
They say the road to it is paved with good intentions.
I hope you wear your seat belts while you're on that route.
As for me? Well, pay no attention while I sharpen my axe.
 
I have a OHP Trooper in my unit here in Iraq, I'll ask him about that. Never seen cuts from a seatbelt in 23 years though.
 
I can agreeon all counts ..Another Case in Point... .6yrs ago IN a Rollover My son was choking from the seat belt nearly stranggling him ,...At age 16 , A friend of His who just got HER drivers License and a chincy ASIAN made car ,, Wanted to prove to Him How GREAT of a driver SHE was and how great the P-O-S car would corner,,, not worth a durn on BOTH COUNTS!... Son got a broken neck was PARALYZED for 3 monthes and is aflicted for the rest of his life ,,,..she was unharmed ,not a Sratch, Has not learned a Durn thing ether except , GIVE ME >, GIVME>,Give,M..........e
 
Alcohol consumption is regulated to an extent in public
Beer does have calories and carbohydrates.
Red wine has anti-oxidants that are good for you.
Alcohol is the antidote for ethylene glycol poisoning.
Most of the people complaining about seatbelt laws wear them anyway, making it a moot point.
And yes, I do scoop up a lot of people due to alcohol.
 
And then there is the other side of this issue. When I worked at a Dodge dealership, I had to go out with a Dodge engineer when there was a wreck involving a Dodge vehicle and check for airbag codes. We had one one time where a young girl was killed when she rolled her pickup and was thrown from the vehicle and it rolled over on her. She wasn't wearing her seatbelt and they expected the airbag to keep her in the vehicle, so they were suing Dodge. Me personally, I have worn my seatbelt all my life, so it is not that big a deal to me. I think of the outcome and make my choice. I do agree that the government should back off, but when you die for not having your seatbelt on, tell your family that the only one they should sue is 6 feet under.
 
Hey John S-B I've noticed by your comments you're in Iraq. I don't know if with the military or by contract but anyway be safe bro and hurry home let's close up shop there. Being from the military myself we're all brothers and leave no one behind. Hope they take care of you during the holidays!I know I started a little heated discussion here but I'm determined to cause an awareness about seat belts since I witnessed what I did and since I wasn't a real believer before this since I was in an accident many years ago before seat belts were even installed where seat belts would have cost me my life. But I'm a believer now!CT
 
I'm a strict constitutionalist, and don't like government intrusions of any kind, but on this you're wrong. Foolishly so.

I too don't like wearing one and often don't, (and I have 5 tickets to prove it), but I don't believe it's wrong for them to be required. Driving is in fact a priviledge, not a right afforded you by God or the Constitution. Therefore they have a right to require sealbelt use.

Grow up and deal with it.
 
This is definately not the hill you want to die for. You may not like it, but it is true that driving is a privilege, not a right. I read the Constitution often, have yet to see reference to that right.

That said, your state is quite harsh in it's penalty. In Indiana it's a $25 non-moving. I've got 5 of them. So you see, I don't like wearing one either, but I don't bellyache about. Many much more serious infractions to the Constitution and our God-given rights than this to spend time on.
 
I think a lot depends on the driver/operator. Mabey a lot of people who don't wear belts get tossed out. Some don't. I often wonder if it's just dumb luck or there's something to it... My brother rolled a Ranger 12 years ago next month. No belt. Rolled it 3 times at highway speed. Cab was not much more than waist high. Held onto the wheel, crawled out and walked away without a mark. He's also dumped his Hayabusa (1300) at probably 70 mph and walked away and who knows how many times he dumped his CBR600 before that.
I'm quite sure it wasn't all luck. He was prepared. Always wears leather and helmet... and when he dumps it's always pushing the limit in some way... so there's an element there of being prepared for it. Beside that I don't think he really gives a hoot one way or the other... so that no doubt helps in remaining calm.
Often the way you react has a big effect on the outcome.

Rod
 
I don't wear a seat belt and never will. According to the Arkansas state police statistics, 1 in 10 fatal wrecks is someone not using seat belts. That tells me that 90% were using seat belts and still died. Ive seen people die from cancer, I'd rather die in a car. I'm old set in my ways and if you keep me alive from cancer I'll cost you more than if I die in a car wreck.
 
YES!!! Glad to see we agree on at least one thing. There is absolutely NO reason for alcohol to be legal for sale or to produce it. (other than mafia revenue)
 
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