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O.T. Fire Dept. Charges

C

CJ3b_jeep

Member
My wife was in a traffic accident in a nearby city (Canton, Ohio) back in October. She paid the ticket ($130) and the insurance fixed her car. We just got a bill from the City of Canton for $220 for 3 firefighters, 1 fire captain and a police officer for 45 minutes. It even details how many cones he put out. What gives here? Isn't that service paid for by taxpayers?
 
You'd think.
I work for the Military and we have a complete service division (every community) and equipment on the payroll. If these folks do any work (change a lock, dig a hole, etc) unit's are charged (comes out of yearly allocations).

Shouldn't your insurance cover the fees though? I know it's the principal.....

Dave
 
Dont know about that. Our fire dept is completely volunteer and there is no charge for services within our fire and rescue area. We do charge when we leave our area for a mutual aid with neighboring fire depts.
 
This is the way some cities are dealing with "budget cuts." They know that most insurance companies will pay for this fire department service charge. (you should turn this bill into your auto insurance company.) I'm guessing if your insurance refuses to pay the city won't push it.

It had been discussed in our area in the past. We were just imagining people not calling the FD until a situation got really bad - figuring they could handle it themselves vs. getting socked with the service charge!

This is the way one side of the aisle wants it to work - makes it easier for them to raise taxes even more. The city of Minneapolis is doing the same thing with snowplowing this year. Advertising that it's not going to be as good as in past years. I too always thought this was one of those services that was a taxpayer provided service.
 
Hold your breath, you may get a bill for the police officer investigating the accident a writing the ticket. What would be the difference?
 
Just a question. If you charge for mutual aid outside of your area, it's not really mutual aid, is it? We have similar agreements in MN, but I've never known of any where charges are levied. Sure, we fill the fuel tanks of FD's that come over and help. Usually give them food, etc.

We've always considered mutual aid as "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" sort of agreement. Works well for us anyway.
 
I"ve got an old hunting cabin located in the Osceola National Forest. Stupidly, I let a fire get away from me while I went to the store. On my return, there was 4 engines and ten people on the ground fighting it. I felt like a complete moron. The officer asked "Would you like me to give you a ticket for $125 or would you like for us to total the costs of manpower and equipment associated with fighting the fire?" The answer was easy
 
jeep, You haven't heard about this part of external_link's stimulus package? with every municipality billing every person or entity outside of their municipality for all services rendered it will put an estimated 175,000 people to work in their respective finance departments. It is estimated to cost the taxpayers only 15.5 million dollars per year. Just kidding, but seriously I would make sure that your town knows about it so that they can charge Canton residents.
 
If its a municipal paid fire department, yep your tax dollars basically paid for it, HOWEVER, its simply a sign of the times, as budget shortfalls happen they look anywhere n everywhere for more taxes or charges thay can get by with. Once Cap and Tax and Government Run Health Care all kick in just look out for more taxes and sur charges and hidden costs and fees.....


"Calling an Illegal Alien an Undocumented Worker is like calling a Drug Dealer an Unregistered Pharmacist"

John T
 
There are conservatives who complain about how high their taxes are; so once taxes are capped, fire and police departments still need money to operate. This is just an example of the "user fees" that conservatives were advocating during the Reagan and Bush I years. [Under a "socialist" government, these costs WOULD be included in the taxe you pay.]

You don't want to pay the fees? Simple solution: don't do anything that would require the services. And let's pass a few more initiatives that cap or cut the amount of taxes we pay, so that we can put toll booths on city streets as well [that way, if you don't use Oak Street, you don't pay for maintaining Oak Street...you only pay for the streets you actually use. That way, only those who actually use government services have to pay for them. We can use the smae philosophy to get rid of public schools, by charging tuition instead of taxing folks who may not have any kids to pay for services they'll never use.

The fees for the fire deaprtment and police services are simply conservatism taken to its logical conclusion. Get used to it...because once the 2012 elections run the "Socialists" out of office and conservatives take over, this is the shape of things to come.
 

How times have changed..!!
Years ago on the Volunteer Fore Dept, we got $1.oo per run and were fine with that..!!
Fight a fire all night, then go to work the next day, and felt Great about it, too..!!
Now, the Lowest paid fire Fighter on our now "Paid Dept" gets no less than $63,000.oo ..!!
I wonder why there is inflation...!!

John T...WHY will they NOT acknowledge the illegal Alien delema..???
Unbelievable that they will not address the problem..
 
Most insurance company's are charging you already for this coverage. They make out like bandits because many fire cos do not charge for calls. We have (a small dept in Maine) started to charge for accidents on the state highways. And boy don't they fight paying.
 
I'm sure our insurance will cover the fees, I'm just shocked by the audacity of them charging for a taxpayer covered service. Esp. when no one asked them to come. There was no fire, no injuries, no glass in the street, they just showed up. I wish I could just show up places and send a bill for services not rendered. If my house caught on fire, would they make me pay for them to show up? Our town does not have a police department, so there is no reciprocity.
 
What part of "user fees" do you not understand?

Of course, I understan your frustration. Having them send you a bill for coming by when you didn't request them is akin to being billed by a prostitute because you were on the same street, and her services were "available" to you.
 
Simple answer, because they want the Hispanic vote. Im NOT against "legal" immigration by the way, thats how our ancestors got here, just "illegal"

John T
 
It will be your State and Local tax that will break you not the Federal tax.
School tax and spending is a runaway train and it is not all because of teachers unions.
Our good nnalert School board can't stop building over priced fancy school buildings.
They don't get any kickbacks. LOL
 
Our local teacher's union hasn't had a contract--or a pay raise--in over 6 years. So they're not the reason our school taxes are skyrocketing. But we've got a lot of nice, new buildings, and all new outdoor sports fields, so academic progressing should skyrocket along with those high taxes...right?
 
Taxes in general are punitive because the productive members of society are singled out. The only difference there would be by switching over to ''user fees'' is that you would penalize all consumers of services equally, and yes, the abuse of public services by the dependent class would curtail dramatically.
 
Had a women broad side my pick-up while she was running a stop sign. Totaled my pick-up. I get a bill from the city for a stop sign that my pick-up wiped out. Turned it over to my insurance. Do not know who paid but never heard from the city again.
gitrib
 
Jeep, It looks like almost everyone is missing the point that it is not YOUR city that is charging you.
 
Where I live there are too many of the older guys, who have been on the Dept. for over ten years. I think there are six of them. So the new young leadership is constantly at them with nit picking, sarcasm, reprimands, threats of legal action, unfounded complaints to the board of selectmen. just everything they can to make it unpleasant for them. What do you suppose will happen once these guys are gone?
 
Hey, Somebody has to pay for those castle like fire stations. (and it may as well be you)

If I was you I would send this to the media and see if they will give the firedept a black eye.

SO.....If I have a sudden medical emergency and need a paramedic to come to my house I will likely get a bill.
 
As far back as the late 1980's our rural volunteer dept billed 500 per run to the insurance company. If we got paid, fine, if we didnt, thats fine too and never went after the home owner or vehicle owner. But, it was a source of funds for the dept that saved us cooking fish suppers a few nights to pay for fire hoses. I think the reasoning is, since the insurance company has it and you pay for it in your policy, why not let the municipality collect it.
 
As others have said, turn it into your ins. company. This is a growing trend up here in Michigan. There are instances of someone else calling 911 for a guy with a hood up and something leaking. The fire dept shows up and then HE gets a bill. One case was for a simple radiator leak. In a rural area where we have property, the township lists the following on its website:
"The amount of Four Hundred ($400.00) Dollars shall be due and payable to the Township from a recipient of any of the following enumerated services from those fire departments providing fire protection services and other emergency services within the Township:

A. Grass Fire
B. Rubbish Fire
C. Automobile fire
D. House Fire
E. Commercial establishment fire
F. Industrial or manufacturing establishment fire
G. Multiple-family building fire
H. Hotel or motel fire
I. Aircraft fire
J. Train fire
K. Truck fire
L. Brush fire
M. Emergency rescue service
N. Resuscitator service
O. A second alarm system malfunction and each occurrence thereafter
P. False alarm by the property owner. Jaws of life
R. Gas spill or other hazardous material spill plus an additional charge
of $20.00 per firefighter per hour and $20.00 per truck per hour.
S. Natural gas leak
T. Other services nor specifically enumerated"

Municipalities won't cut their budgets where most of the money goes and that's to retirees and their benefits. People are living longer and longer, retiring earlier and earlier. So, they're looking for creative ways to raise revenue.
 
If elected, I would pass legislation that all rural volunteer fire companies be funded before our tax dollars are sent overseas as foreign aid.

Why is there no common sense anymore?
 
I didn't know that county and state governments ran foreign aid programs. If they do, that's simply wrong and should be eliminated.

And if they don't, how many rural volunteer fire departments are funded by federal dollars? Around here, the state and county fund them, as far as tax dollars go. In short, I don't see how you can tie state and county funded services to federal foreign aid expenditures. The state and the county can't tell the federal government how to spend federal dollars, y'know.

So explain to me how you'd make that idea of yours work.
 
This is another back door tax the politicians have stuck us with. I am a firefighter/paramedic and this really gets me P.O.'d!! They started charging for EMS transports in Columbus Oh. where I work and that money GOES TO THE GENERAL FUND NOT THE FIRE DEPT.!!! Anybody that tells you "it's okay, your insurance will pay for it", doesn't realize that your insurance is just going to go up even if you don't use the service. The crooks in office just get away with this because they "claim" they are just passing the cost to the "evil" insurance companies. Which just comes back to us. And then they use the money for stupid government waste.
That's just one of the reasons I'm glad I moved out of the city. In Delaware County, fire is paid for in property taxes, and EMS gets a cut of sales taxes. And we have great services without getting it stuck to us when we are in a bad spot to begin with.
 
Buzzman, around here it ain't the conservatives that are doing this it's the liberals. In the big city of Columbus, that money is going to the general fund, NOT to the fire dept. And then they turn around and put in these stupid round abouts, and "traffic calming" devices nobody wants. And in some cases make it very difficult for fire trucks to navigate around. Not to mention the Cadillac Escalade the mayor drives.
Oh, and did I mention the way our abundant government is here, the fleet maint. dept. charges other dept.s $20 every time they farm out a oil change to Jiffy Lube? Not to mention that they charge outrageous rates for working on the trucks.
 
thats pretty cheap...our county has all volunteer fire departments and emt's...fire dept been charging for nuciance fires and putting out fires during burn bans buts its pretty cheap considering the emt's are charging over $800. for a ride to horsepistol.
 
Must be all of 50 yrs. ago Pa was burning the empty seed corn bags after having just filled the planter. Never looked back untill he turned around on the other end. Saw the whole ditch was on fire for about a quarter mile. When he got back to this end he ran to house and called fire dept. Got a bill for $25.00 Which his insurance paid.
 
(quoted from post at 11:17:13 12/09/09) I didn't know that county and state governments ran foreign aid programs. If they do, that's simply wrong and should be eliminated.

And if they don't, how many rural volunteer fire departments are funded by federal dollars? Around here, the state and county fund them, as far as tax dollars go. In short, I don't see how you can tie state and county funded services to federal foreign aid expenditures. The state and the county can't tell the federal government how to spend federal dollars, y'know.

So explain to me how you'd make that idea of yours work.
Click to expand...

I'm not phil in pa but I'll answer.
County and state governments do not run or fund foreign aid programs. I know the state and counties can't tell the feds how to spend their dollars and they shouldn't have to. The feds should take care of our needs where it be local, state or federal before taking care or foreign aid without being told.
If phil ever runs for anything I'll vote for him and I hope it is President of the USA. At least he is more concerned about our citizens needs than you would be.
 
I never said I disagreed with what Phil said; I just asked how he'd manage to make it work. Everybody seems to know what needs to be fixed, but damn few know HOW to fix it.

I'd rather vote for the guy that knows HOW to fix the problems, rather than the guy who merely states the obvious and says something needs to be done. [So, obviously I didn't vote for the current man in the White House.]
 

Socialism has failed EVERY SINGLE time it has been tried.

Like Margret Thatcher said - "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money."
 
Once I pay it in taxes, I don't much care how you want to label it.

"Reasons" like you just put out there are exactly what's wrong.

You would make a great senator.
 
Taxes should take care of that but now days we got too many crooked career politicians in all offices local, state, federal that are into spending more & more and stuffing some in their pockets too probably. VOTE the crooks out and run for office yourself or vote someone else better in. Ambulance services are expensive to run and we do charge for that but police and fire that's getting ridiculous sounds like Canton and some other cities have officials too big for their britches that need to be thrown out so someone else can run it right.
 
I belong to a all vol. fire dept. We own all of our trucks/equip/ and buildings. In the last couple of years we have started charging for certain types of calls. MVA's if there is fluids down or if the rescue tools are used.
We send a bill to insurance companies for structure fires. I think most policies have a build in coverage for this charge. I believe it is around $300.00.

When a new fire apparatus costs around 350,000, no frills,you have to do what ever you can to raise the funds. Our last fund drive had a 53% return rate.

www.jacksonfire.com
 
In Wisconsin the insurance companies already pay the fire departments 2% of the residential premiums they collect and send it to the respective communities to support the fire service. The only time I"ve seen people billed for responses was by the DNR on wild fires when there was obvious negligence.
 
Why would you want to give the fire dept a black eye? I doubt that they have anything to do with what the municipality charges for anything. More than likely it is a way to collect money for their services from the insurance company instead of the taxpayers. Our Fire Dept. ambulance service used to charge 50 dollars if they transported someone no matter what drugs etc were used. It became a pretty major expense and the city started collecting from medicare and in order to do so had to start itemizing for everything and charging mileage etc. Being transported by one of our ambulances is pretty expensive now but still much cheaper than a private company would charge.
You seem to be in a hurry to give somebody a black eye. Makes me wonder if you have had enough of em yourself.
Thanks to all the volunteers that spend their time and energy providing service to communities that wouldnt otherwise be able to provide for their citizens... and having somebody try giving you a black eye for it. <G>
 
If WI is like MN, that 2% money goes directly into the Relief Association for use to pay pensions. It cannot go toward buying equipment/trucks/etc.

It does "support" the fire service in the sense that the city (or whatever jurisdiction "sponsors" the fire department) doesn't have to come up with additional $$$ to contribute to the pension funds. Most cities do contribute on top of the 2% money.
 
(quoted from post at 11:43:07 12/09/09) Taxes in general are punitive because the productive members of society are singled out. The only difference there would be by switching over to ''user fees'' is that you would penalize all consumers of services equally, and yes, the abuse of public services by the dependent class would curtail dramatically.
Click to expand...

Yes! Someone gets it! When I did crime analysis work in our city of about 350,000 we found that about 80% of all police calls for service were generated by about 10% of the population. Those are the people who should be paying 80% of the costs of the police department.
 
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