who killed the electic car !

is on Direct TV around 287 til 9 am ,, then Later at 3m on same channel ... 2 hours long ....Prepare to be DISGUSTED ... it Also can be found in segments on YOU -TUBE...

general motors killed the electric trolley car years ago so they could sell busses

(quoted from post at 09:36:34 12/04/09) is on Direct TV around 287 til 9 am ,, then Later at 3m on same channel ... 2 hours long ....Prepare to be DISGUSTED ... it Also can be found in segments on YOU -TUBE...

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ho really killed JFK, etc, etc.
We should all be disgusted with conspiracy around every corner.
Any product worth its salt will make it in the market place. That EV1 was a totally subsidized experiment. Too expensive, limited capabilities, & if it had been made available on the open market, there would have been virtually no demand for those very reasons. Just to sell today's hybrids, the government has to suck up money from all of us to subsidize the few hybrids sold. It had no legs! Nor do electrics being promised just around the corner. A $30,000 battery! And a range that can't get me to town. Get serious!

Hmm, makes ya wonder what woulda happened if Ted Kennedy was driving an electric car ? lol

Yeah --- and then Mary Jo Kopechne would have been Electrocuted......

Geez,I was just going to answer the original question. Answer:anybody with any common sense.

Yeah it could be a falslified I guess , like the 80 mpg carburator,,JFK Magic bullet , global warming , the president is a nnalert documentaries , bush 911 conspiracy theory hummmm... You should take the time to watch this documentary in its entirety ... It shows most of your claims have no legs .. But ,Maybe you do know all about the EV1 exclusively . I DO NOT ! Tell you honestly , I saw this 6 to 10 monthes ago on you Tube , And I had never Ever Heard of the term EV1 before

This is a highly, highly biased show and it doesn't give both sides of the story. The EV1 electric cars that GM produced would be good only in the far southern states. These cars were a lease and the people who signed the lease knew from day one that they never owned them. Why is it that these car operators want the car to drive, but do not want to pay for the subsides that the tax payers gave to get these cars on the road?

True about subsidies , leases , and ownership OK ,........ but don't miss the point of what they claim to have invented ,, a car that will travel 60 mph for 300 miles on a batterry that WILL RECHARGE IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES ... and now, it APPEARS they have destroyed that technology?? WHY ???

There are other companies out there that do the same thing, they just don't have the GM badge on them. Have you priced one of these? They are expensive. Would they work in an extreme southern state? Sure.
Tell me this...How did the EV1 cars have heat or AC? Research this before you advocate having them in all 50 states.

A few years back, when I was working at the Ford dealership in Buckner, Ford was selling an electric Ranger pickup...marketed towards electric utilities and co-ops first, of course. Looked good on paper UNTIL....us "idiots" in the parts department decided to check out the cost of replacing the "battery pack" that took up most of the bed.

Would you believe $11,000....and that was DEALER COST? So basically...once the battery needed replacement, it was more economical to simply replace the vehicle.

Crap like THAT is what's killing electric cars and small trucks. Even if the battery pack lasts 3-5 years, you can buy a 3-to-5 year old CONVENTIONAL fuel vehicle for less than you can fix yours.

Let me ask one more question.
If EVERYBODY in the US suddenly bought an electric car, would our utility companies be able to handle the load? Everybody wants cheap electricity, but nobody wants it in their back yard. There are already rolling blackouts during the hot sumer months. Research a California senator who doesn't want solar panels and wind farms in the middle of the California desert.
The technology hasn't been destroyed. There are aftermarket companies who are doing the same thing without all the government subsidies.

Totally unadulterated BS:
" a car that will travel 60 mph for 300 miles on a batterry that WILL RECHARGE IN LESS THAN 10 MINUTES "

Today's technology far exceeds EV1 & can't come close to that.

Don't let them beat your opinion down, J. Heitkemper. I support your opinion.

This country is in trouble.

A coal electric plant up here in the midwest was killed off - too much uncertainty about the whole Cap & Trade thing.....

We are told that electricity is the answer to cars - but where will the electricity come from? Coal is dead, no one wants a nuke plant in their back yard, no one has figured out what to do with nuke wastes that are dangerous for a few 100,000 years. coal which we have a lot of we can't use. Wind turbines only work when the wind blows, so can only be good for 1/3 of our power requirements - and only if we build a better electric grid to balance the power production with the power generation areas....

We are told natural gas is the answer, we have a lot & we keep finding more. But - several grain drying outfits this year were told to shut off their corn driers, as people need furnaces now with the cold wave, don't have enough gas flow in the pipelines to service both.

Ethanol & soybean oil help to stretch gasoline & diesel supplies; but oh no that causes food price to go up & oil producing states won't allow it. EPA put off upping the ethanol content again this week, because of the oil states blocking it.

Powers that be want to put up a high line transmission power line a few dozen miles north of me. Heck, I wouldn't want it in my back yard either, but I do like having electricity. It can't go through towns - people oppose that. So can't use existing right of ways as they all go through towns. Can't go through unoccupied waste land - don't dare touch wetlands, they identify every eagle nest & need to stay far far away from those. Can't go over the river bluffs, it destroys the view the rich folk have from their mcmanshions. Only people you can bother any more with electric lines or pipelines is farmers - take away crop land.


What will we do in 20 years?

We are in trouble. We are going backwards in the USA.

What do people think we will be using in 20 years?

Electric car technology will be here if it works. It's easy to design & ramp up production of such a thing in 5 years - if it can stand on it's own in the marketplace. If their technology fits the marketplace, it _won't_ be held back - someone will pick up on it. The problem with the electric vehicle is there won't be any electricity to feed it - no place to plug it in. The car could be in showrooms in 3-5 years easy if it worked.

What we _can't_ do is build infrastructure in a short period of time. Electric power plants (whatever fuel they use), power lines, pipelines - they take decades to plan & bring online.

We are in serious trouble - not from conspiricies about electric cars, but from sitting on our rears & not planning ahead.

Congress & president fuddle around throwing money here & there - auto makers, banks, building trades, stimulus checks to us. Phhht.

Build us some infrastructure - intrest, dollar value, labor, and goods (steel, concrete, etc) are generally low priced right now. Have the govt build some power plants, electric dams, pwer lines, pipelines. Build us a _future_ and use that construction as a stimulus package - it will fire up our ecconomy, it will give our small businesses a future to look forward to.

But - no. They spend time on trying to tax insurance companies enough to fund national health care, dribble out small checks to people and big checks to big business for nothing, and wring their hands on how to make the other party look bad while doing nothing to make their own party look good.

Where are we gonna be in 20 years?

--->Paul

I'm sure that isn't a direct TV exclusive. I've got Dish Network, where can I find it. HUUUUMMM maybe this is a conspiracy and only Direct TV has it.

In the early 60s I worked for the Post Office. We
used battery powered vehicles to deliver mail. They where three wheeled small single seat vehicles. The battery compartment was under the cargo area. I think they where 24 volts. In the morning with a fresh charge you could spin the rear wheels if you pushed the "accelerator" to the floor. After about 5 hours, 350 stops and starts and about 15 miles travel you creeped back to the station with the battery almost dead.
They where around for a few years and then replaced with gas powered vehicles. This was in Florida. I doubt you could get that kind of service from them in the north.
Dad sold the farm in the late 50s and retired to Florida. You can take the boy off the farm but you can't take the farm out of the boy.

Did not see the program. But, did they say how
many amp-hours the car used and how many amp-hours the battery stored. Just thinking about it
how could you use that much enegy and replace it
in 10 minutes?

Paul , I certainly relate and concur with your frustration and..... hopes

Very well stated.

all except the part about having the government build power plants, etc.

Like rats on a sinking ship. When we as a country get it through our head that WE can"t save the world, then and only then, will we solve the problems we have right here in our own country. when neighbors help neighbors and the people in charge leave us alone to do that will we be alright. Turn the capitol into a welfare state and let them see how the majority live then maybe we won"t be out there telling the rest of world how to be successful. as its been said "take the log out of your eye so you can pull the splinter"

If the govt needs to get involved - and they always seem to need to do so - I'd prefer they get involved in builing infrastructure. The basic needs of a country. Roads, power plants, pipelines, trasmission lines.

Perhaps not actually build them, but help move that sort of thing along.

We need more hydro electric. It messes up the land behind the dam, I'd hate for that to be me; and tree-huggers just can't stand that a few jack rabbits need to find new hopping grounds. But - in the big picture, hydro is the best option for electic in the long run. It has no pollution at all, nothing to store, nothing to put up a pipestack or to cool. It just messes up a few 1000 acres from what it is now into a lake, and that is the end of the issue. Sometimes a lake is a positive thing down the road....

I'm generally not for the govt to be involved either. But - they will be. This is the type of thing they might as well move forward as long as they need to mess up something. It is hard for general big business to do these sorts of massive things on their own.

--->Paul

An interesting thing is that just last evening at a Car Club meeting it was mentioned that someone in our city has a 1911 electric car on display. What killed that one?

(quoted from post at 08:18:48 12/04/09) This country is in trouble................................................................ ......... .......... ............... ........ . . . .......... ..Where are we gonna be in 20 years?

--->Paul

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Well said. In addition the supposed advantage to electric cars, how about batteries. All modern batteries, whether lead, lithium ion, or whatever, all contain some of the most toxic materials, in large amounts, on earth. The cost (both financial and environmental) of supposedly "recycling" these materials is a myth.

The biggest thing we need to do--and should have been doing long ago--is to configure our cities, neighborhoods, and peoples minds--so that "we" don't jump "in the rig" at every little pack of cigarettes or 6 pack and head for the store.

People don't realize that coal is even dirtier than oil. And that is where we get most of our electricity. So we need to find an alternitive to that. Plus some people think they are free, but if i'm thinking correctly, I have a power bill. I like the movie but I still plan to go wrk for the refineries when i get out of school.

(quoted from post at 12:51:03 12/04/09) An interesting thing is that just last evening at a Car Club meeting it was mentioned that someone in our city has a 1911 electric car on display. What killed that one?

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here were several electric car companies in the 1930's. You could even get you Dodge converted to electric by one company. What happened? Essentially same problem as today. You just can't stuff much propulsion energy into a battery. Half a ton of batteries, $30,000 and you have 16KW-hrs that takes you about 40 miles. That is the amount of energy in 0.4 gallon of gasoline. (And yes, there are unaccounted for inefficiencies in both the gasoline and battery charging/discharging, etc.) The situation was worse in 1930 because the volume & weight of 1930 batteries for 16KWH of energy was much greater than with today's batteries.

VERY WELL PUT ddl,,, every word you say is True and the Best I've ever read, now send it to our Black President and Congress, maybe they will take notice, but I doubt it,,,,

Think how many more people would be in New York city today if the dirty coal used to heat for over a hundred years had not killed them all off.

For all of you interested in the electric car scene, try this website.

www.evworld.com

It"s interesting to see what is going on with battery technology development.

Hopefully GM will get the Volt in production soon.

Electric cars hold the promise of liberating us from reliance on Middle Eastern oil and holding us hostage to Chinese rare earth materials used in the electric motors, and to the Chinese for the lithium in the batteries. Throwing off one yoke to put on another larger one isn't progress.

Maybe we should declare war on Bolivia and take their lithium deposits?

Did you ever see this Ranger pickup truck. I have worked at the only Ranger plant in north America for the last 42 years. The Ranger was launched is 1984 if I remember correctly. They have never made an electric Ranger. Ford is not allowed to import a Ranger from another country. At the union hall a couple of months ago there was an electric Ranger converted by a private interest trying to get support for it. The UAW is suporting the electric Ranger. Ford has never built an electric Ranger at the Twin Cities Assembly Plant in St. Paul Minnesota.

Henry Ford? Model Ts became cheap transport and gas engines got better, electrics batteries couldn"t match the performance and range. Porsche had "Mixte" design in early 30s- gas engine driving electric generator and electric motors in wheel hubs and axles, some regenerative braking experiments also.Current GM hybred buses use a relatively small battery pack, regenerative drive and a relatively clean diesel engine that partially recharges battery pack. Mileage increase 20% or so, clean burning, low pollution-- and only another $20,000 increased cost with the incentives($35,000 to $50,000 extra without incentive/subsidies). The straight battery powerd NEV(Neighborhood Electric Vehicle) may be handy for some people that can live with a 50 mile range and overnight charge, 25 mph top speed- but for long distance a small diesel engine Smart car with manual transmission getting 75mpg makes more sense. Intersting thing -that Smart car version so popular in Europe is not allowed to be sold in US. Niether is VW diesel hybred that is fair seller in europe. As for coal burning power plants that make the electricity and have losses- try burning the coal with in between step of converting the coal to lite oil, like the Fischer-trosch method used by Germany in WW2 and S. Africa today. A experimental conversion plant is being built or is now online in N Dakota on a military reservation(no treehuggers or extra building permit hassle) and is supposed to make or be making some very good jet fuel for military use, a little of the other oil and wax production possible available for civilian sale. Franc uses the power from a nuclear plant to run their experimental coal to fuel conversion plant in Alsace(?) region, another one mentioned but can"t remember where- I think it was supposed to be very close to a large munincipal area. Use nuke power to convert coal to liquid fuel that can go into existing infrastructure instead of charging short range battery power car. Lead-acid batteries are known , useful devices with known shortcomings but relatively cheap. combined with a diesel engine and they can help- like the GM munincipal buses that are slightly cheaper and cleaner than previous models over extended life but have a initial higher cost. Fuel cells like Ford and Fiat are working on have the range and power- but use of LP gas or preferred Hydrogen means a infrastructure building problem. Current projetions are for economical stationary units like the large diesel emercency generators in places with sewer gas or natural gas supplies. LP/CNG fuel vehicles another option- Madison,Wi has a cab company that has been running propane for years- the cabs don"t get too far away from their refueling tanks so works good. India using sewer gas and CNG in some polluted cities-Mumbai/Bombay was example- for trikes, trucks and busses, another possible alternative to straight electrics. Arizona has a couple places allowing golf carts around town- electric cart with a solar panel roof was example of short hop vehicle getting once a month extra charge. Try that in Wisconsin winter and it"ll be a daily recharge and defrost solar panels on roof. Batteries need some more work. RN.

The lack of "Star Trek" technology prevents consumers from having electric vehicles that travel. As fast, as far or as cheap as a gasser/diesel.
So until people lower their expectations and pay more for less. The electric vehicle will be limited to golf carts and scooters.

Here is a little bit on early batteries and electric cars.
Early batteries and cars

Planetgreen.

What i saw on the Volt it was originally marketed with a range like a common fuel car, about 300 mile to a charge. But when you get pass concept cars and come down to reality you get a 40 mile to a charge plus an alternate engine car.
There are companies that will juice up a Hybrid car for about 30K with a mileage of 100 miles per charge. MPC? They put in more and better batteries.
I wondered why the roof panels on most of these Hybrids wasn't solar panels, the common use of a car is drive to work and let it set in the sun for 8 hours and then go home, might not be much of a charge now but as technology improves.. I had saw one that did something like this but just used it for vehicle cooling.
Are battery charging stations the gas stations of the future?

(quoted from post at 18:33:22 12/04/09) What i saw on the Volt it was originally marketed with a range like a common fuel car, about 300 mile to a charge. But when you get pass concept cars and come down to reality you get a 40 mile to a charge plus an alternate engine car.
There are companies that will juice up a Hybrid car for about 30K with a mileage of 100 miles per charge. MPC? They put in more and better batteries.
I wondered why the roof panels on most of these Hybrids wasn't solar panels, the common use of a car is drive to work and let it set in the sun for 8 hours and then go home, might not be much of a charge now but as technology improves.. I had saw one that did something like this but just used it for vehicle cooling.
Are battery charging stations the gas stations of the future?

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Not charging station of future unless you have a very large over-nite parking lot with lots of 'pumps'.

Pick up different battery pack.

Though I have not watched the show or read the other posts, the answer is easy. Technology killed it.

Dean

General Motors never made electric trolley cars but it is true that diesel powered buses made by GM rendered the electric trolley non cost effective after WWII.

Dean

BINGO!

This is yet another monumental technological/infrastructure problem that will prevent the mass adoption of electric cars for decades if not forever.

Dean

Utter nonsense.

Dean

Bingo!

Dean

Paul:

Government can best help move along the development of power plants (coal or nuclear), hydro electric plants, pipelines, transmission lines, etc., etc., etc., by getting out of the way.

Dean

Agreed.

Dean

That's, easy. The same thing that killed the Stanley Steamer, the gasoline powered IC engine.

Dean

It's all about lithium!

Now where have I heard that before?

Dean

An interesting alternative that is getting little press COULD be the use of super/ultra capacitors rather than batteries for energy storage.

Though much progress has already been made, further breakthroughs will be necessary before this technology MIGHT be applicable to vehicles.

One significant advantage is the elimination of the time consuming chemical reactions inherent in the charge/discharge processes inherent with battery technology as well as improved life resulting therefrom.

Imagine, if you will, pulling into a future charging station, plugging in the water cooled charging cable, and "filling up" at 10K or 20K amps for a few seconds before heading back to the interstate.

I think this scenario holds far more promise then electrochemical batteries for automotive applications.

Dean

Elderly friend,faniliar w/steam technology of past states vehemently that with modern technology/materials and existing steam knowhow from history it would be completely feasible to build a unitized steam engine unit,or steam- electric power plant,that would fit into current vehicle body/chassis,weigh less and could be"fired"by virtually ANY flammable liquid or gas.Only major issue would 15-20 minute warm-up from cold start,which he feels most American drivers would NOT accept for a personal vehicle.As said he's adamant and well versed in that concept but,in no position health,space or moneywise to pursue it.Also states that his attempts to promote his ideas generally fail as soon as he mentions"Steam".

(quoted from post at 22:41:10 12/04/09) An interesting alternative that is getting little press COULD be the use of super/ultra capacitors rather than batteries for energy storage.

Though much progress has already been made, further breakthroughs will be necessary before this technology MIGHT be applicable to vehicles.

One significant advantage is the elimination of the time consuming chemical reactions inherent in the charge/discharge processes inherent with battery technology as well as improved life resulting therefrom.

Imagine, if you will, pulling into a future charging station, plugging in the water cooled charging cable, and "filling up" at 10K or 20K amps for a few seconds before heading back to the interstate.

I think this scenario holds far more promise then electrochemical batteries for automotive applications.

Dean

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uess I ought to add one more thing.
"...technology destroyed. why?"
There was no technology to be destroyed.....EV1 used old fashioned plain old LEAD-ACID batteries........a bunch of them.....it was a 2 seater.
It was really a 1200 car, one billion dollar exercise in 1990 for GM to illustrate the infeasibility an electric car. The movie was like most movies, for your entertainment. Entertainment is all about perception, not facts. Why destroyed? To allow GM to avoid liabilities & laws regarding spare/repair parts availability. Facts really cloud the perception don't they?

They could get out of farming, too. If they stay out of international funny business too - embargos, etc.

--->Paul

(quoted from post at 18:33:22 12/04/09)
I wondered why the roof panels on most of these Hybrids wasn't solar panels, the common use of a car is drive to work and let it set in the sun for 8 hours and then go home, might not be much of a charge now but as technology improves.

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Good idea. Only problem is that such a panel would only charge the batteries enough to power the FM radio and the wipers for the trip home.
50-200 watts for eight hours daily into an automotive sized battery bank would require months to charge.

Does it say G.W.B and the big car Manufacturers after California asked him to alter the Enviro laws so they could bring in stricter emission standards and after the usual Federal investigation all findings were embargoed and prototype electric cars [19 I think] were trashed. Needless to say their request was denied.Just a little of what I gleaned from a Doco on the subject.