OT- Info from John T in perticular

I know that getting advice from the net can be good and bad but since you live and practiced here in IN I assume you can at least lead me in the correct direction. Here is the situation from the beginning. Had a long time family friend/ good neighbor pass a few years ago. One of her daughters moved into her house with her boyfriend. No problems until almost two years ago which would be last spring when my dads girlfriends daughter was walking around our 1/4 mile square block with the farm dog. Jack Russel/ Rat Terrior mix. Trained to kill any small rodent and whatnot. Was in the road infront of our field that surrounds said neighbors house when dog saw a wild rabbit in the field... chased and killed it. Turns out rabbit was a meat rabbit of neighbor that had escaped as at least half a dozen others had. Neighbor gets mad and apparently holds a grudge for a year or better. This past summer said neighbor comes around the curve in front of the farm and runs over and kills dog right infront of my dad, another farmer neighbor, and myself. I beleived it to be an accident at first. Half hour later we are loading cattle from a lot in the field where dog killed rabbit next to said neighbor... truck and trailer setting in one lane road while we get ready to pen up cattle. See neighbor pullin outta drive way and stand in middle of road to tell him he killed dog. He sees me and bumps me with his truck as I stand my spot in road. Ask if he knew he hit dog and he says yes. Ask why he didn't stop and says he is in a hurry to get a truck he has on trailer somewhere. Just about pulled him from truck but keep cool. File a police report as an officer just so happen to be driving by farm when we get back from loading cattle. Police do nothing, prosecutor does nothing and I called several times to ask why and just get a run around. Understand running over dog isn't crime but bumping me should be. Then I realize that the fence behind neighbors house isn't on the property line as there is a pipe about 5 feet from back fence in side fence. So happens next lot over owner has his lot surveyed and finds markers driven in ground same 5 feet or so from fence pretty much assuring me pipe is property line and fence was built off on purpose. Said neighbor has built a small shed type building ON the fence which is on my property. Call building department and ask them to look into it. Tells me best they can do is ask them to move it. So what are my legal options if any to get his crap off my property? She and her boyfriend only been in house a few years so I don't think they could claim property theirs plus the marked line is there. Tired to BS officials that don't do crap. Again, I won't take what anyone says for the bible but advice is nice.

Not a good situation for sure. Dogs on farms and acreages should be trained to stay on the property. I've seen too many that have been run over needlessly. It is very sad to see and even worse to witness. If the rabbit got loose and was on your property, it's not your fault, on their property may make a difference if you couldn't contain the dog. It sounds like your dog may have been run over in retaliation(sp) to the rabbit. If he hit you with his truck, I think you can have him charged but we're only hearing your(biased) side of the story. I'm not sure if it can be hit and run, in some cases, if an animal is involved.
As far as the fence and the building goes, I think all counties have specific regulations on the proximity to property lines of all structures and fences. The only way they can be altered is in rare cases and an easement is granted. The county can make the neighbor move the building and also move the fence, all at their own cost. If not completed within a reasonable time period, I think the violator can be charged the costs to have someone else move them. What else to you want? You won't get any money from them unless it caused you to have a loss. Check if they had a building permit. Up here you have to own a property for at least a year before you are allowed to apply to sub-divide it. It's highly possible the land was inherited. It sounds like it's the start of an ugly relationship with the neighbors. Dave

It's a little hard to follow what you're saying because you keep using the word "neighber". I assume that you're really talking about your neighbor's boyfriend. It sounds like he's got a mean streak in him and holds a grudge. It could be that his girlfriend will get sick of him and give him the boot, but I wouldn't count on it.

First you have to separate the dog incident and the building. The thing with your dog tells you what sort of person you're dealing with, but it's over and there's nothing to be done.

The building encroachment is a whole 'nother thing. If the building is truly on your property, you could lose some of your land through adverse possession. So you need to do something about it, but be careful because you now know the boyfriend is a nastly little *&#! and there's no telling what he might pull. You may have to go to court to get the building moved, but I think you have to do it. I would check with the building department and figure out which regulations they've broken. If the building required a permit and they didn't get one, that's one violation. If there's a local setback requirement, then that's a second violation. Push the building department to do their job, but take them to court if you have to.

Is there a chance you can talk sense to the girl? If you think you can, volunteer to help them move the building off your property. Chances are she will be around longer than the boyfriend, so if you can work things out with her that would be better.

That is where I am trying to go... getting him to move his building. If the building department won't make him move it I am curious if I can give a fair amount of time like 30 days then remove it with the excavator and send him the bill. When I built my house 5 years ago the set backs were 30' side lines, 75' from center of road, and 100' from rear line. Their lot is only about 100' x 200' so it is near impossible to build anything without violating the rules.

Yep, here we have leash laws but it is the country and technically when the dog killed the rabbit he was on our property but I understand that it is useless to worry or gripe about that.
I don"t understand why the prosecutors office won"t answer why no charges have been filed. They closed the case 3 times... first two times I got them to reopen it and look over it again just to re close it. Last time no one called me back to let me know what they decided even after calling to ask what was going to happen.
Unfortunately the girl who is the daughter of the passed away good neighbor is kinda not so nice either. Her brothers and sisters which we are good family friends with pretty much hate her due to the fact that they hocked pretty much everything in the house while they were staying with their mom just before she passed. Somehow they weaseled the house outta her too and now it looks like a junk yard. It just really gets me fired up when I see the place or him drive past the farm. I just want them to abide by the law like the rest of us are supposed to.

Joe Bob, Sure Im glad to offer some "legal advice" but things like this require legal research and detailed "facts" before arriving at a competent legal opinion, which even if done right is still ONLY AN ATTORNEYS OPINION. These things simply CAN NOT be answered professionally over the net based on a few paragraphs in the question or the answer...So seek local counsel and DO NOT hang your hat too much on anything posted here regardless if from a lay person or an attorney THESE THINGS JUST CANT BE RESOLVED OVER THE INTERNET.

1) As it sounds like youre already aware, that whole dog and rabbit issue isnt going anywhere especially that would be worth hiring an attorney to pursue. However if someone commits battery upon your person, especially if using an automobile, they may well be guilty of a crime. Around here you go to the prosecutors office and file an affidavit of complaint and then the prosecutors office does a preliminary investigation and may or may not perfer charges.. THE PROBLEM IS THERES NO WAY YOU CAN FORCE THEM TO DO THAT. About all you can do is call and complain and be persistent as the old saying goes "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"

2) The building issue: It sounds like you have a better chance of getting civil relief here.

BORDER DISPUTES The FIRST thing you have to do is establish a legally recognized boundary NOT a surveyors opinion or where you or the neighbor says the boundary is...Surveys ARE ONLY PROFESSIONAL EXPERT OPINIONS just like Attorneys can offer expert professional legal opinions IT TAKES A COURT TO RESOLVE MOST ISSUES

a) Since it sounds like theres a border dispute, one method (again ask a local attorney how they would handle it, NOT me or the internet) of resolution thats not overly expensive is to hire a licensed surveyor to conduct a legal survey pursuant to Indiana Code 36-2-12-10.

ONCE AND AFTER THE BOUNDARY IS LEGALLY ESTABLISHED then Id FIRST try the free methods of resolution which the county building inspectors or zoning or enforcement types of offices handle such as set backs and building permits TO SEE IF THEY CAN GET THE BUILDING REMOVED...

HOWEVER IF NOT AND THE LEGAL SURVEY DETERMIENS THE BUILDING IS ON YOUR LAND then you can take the neighbor to court and you will likely prevail (still as always subject to certain conditions) IF indeed he built on your property.

DO NOT just sit there and let that condition go on otherwise you could eventually end up loosing any action to force its removal based on the legal doctrine of "adverse posession"

Sooooooooo file a complaint and continue to lean on and bug the prosecutor about battery with an automobile ..........If the zoning and building enforcement offices do you no good then inquire with a local licensed surveyor about a "legal survey" .............If the legal survey establishes the buildsing is on your land again try to get free help as just noted but if that does not work take the neighbor to Court DO NOT LET IT GO ON as is (adverse posession)

NO WARRANTY ON ANY OF THIS its just a quick n dirty OPINION not researched sooooooooooo do your homework,,,,,consult local counsel and surveyors,,,,,,,,,take advanatage of the free (yeah right our tax dollars paid for it) services from the prosecutor or building/zoning people.

Best wishes

John T BSEE,JD Attorney at Law and retired Electrical Engineer

In general the county folk just groan on these property disputes - they always come from some bigger deal - some grudge outside of the actual property issue - and fester & grow & are just miserable to try to settle, because everyone is all worked up over the other issues.

As this case appears to be.

They get a case like this every week, and there is never any joy in trying to settle it, as there are always deeper underlying issues.

Look at it from their point of view.

Then go ahead & get it settled. If you are in the right, you should get your property back. I'm all for that.

My point is, unbderstand why the govt plods slowly, and with little enthusiasm on such a thing.....

--->Paul

What if I have the deed and it specifically says so many feet to the pipe driven in the ground which is in the fence, would I still need a survey as there would obviously have already been one when these several parcels were plotted off the main parcel? Costs about $2000 to have a competent surveyer do the work, I know as we have had several surveys in the last 5 years. I was hoping maybe I could send them a letter something like, you have 30 days to remove building(s) from our property if you do not respond within 15 days you recognize and acknowledge you have built on our property and will either remove within the 30 or we will remove at your expense. If you do not know where the line is you must respond within the 15 days and must have a survey done to prove the line.

That way they shell out the money for the survey or they move the building(s) and hopefully both. Like I said there is a metal pipe in the fence running along the property side between us which is about 5 feet from the back fence placing the line between the fence and their property and the neighbor on the other side that owns that lot just found the pins at both his corners which are the same footage from the fence in our favor and he agrees that those pins are the actual line. Common sense says the line is 5 foot from the fence but I ain't dumb and know common sense and lawyering are two different things. Thanks for any and all useless advice you can give!

Theres no harm in relying on the existing survey you mentioned and theres a good chance if you conducted an IC 36-2-12-10 "Legal Survey" the result would be the same. THE DIFFERENCE IS if theres a boundary dispute (he says building is on his property you say its on yours) the "Legal Survey" constitutes a method whereby an otherwise expert opinion ripens into a statutory authorized method of setting the boundary which becomes the boundary as a matter of law versus only an experts opinion otherwise.

Theres no harm in attempting the registered US mail return receipt (Green card) method of providing legal NOTICE of your intentions it may or may not get the attention of the neighbor, its often my first attempt to resolve something quick n easy n cheap especially when I make that threat as an Attorney (or do it youself is fine) HOWEVER the law does not recognize such nor grant you any authority to tear down the building!!!!! You might tear it down n say hey I wrote him a registered letter and end up loosing in Court n have to rebuild it at your expense, although I doubt that.

The bottom line is theres no harm in trying reasonable legal self help to get him to remove it but if he doesnt bluff then you have to go to Court at which time you may or may not have to get that "legal survey" . If the boundary isnt in discpute or his lawyer advises him its just an expense he will loose on he may fold. However if he maintians its on him then my guess is the Court will order that legal survey but if you win that then the court will most likely order him to remove it.

I guess my best free advice is DO NOT TEAR IT DOWN YOURSELF even if you may get by with it.

You have to weigh the costs of an attorney and possibly a legal survey if self help doesnt get it done BUT AGAIN you cant afford to sit on it because you could loose by adverse posession down the road

I would still try the out of court free methods first such as building commissioners or planning or zoning offices first about set backs and if he had a permit etc etc let them fight the battle for you

John T

What makes you think that you can take it into your own hands? If you did anything to the building, you would be paying(lots and may have to replace the building or pay its value), not them, and you could also face serious charges and fines. The first thing to do is find out what the legal set back requirement was/is in your county when their building was put up. If it is/was at least 30 feet, then it would appear that even if it is on their property it is still too close to the propery line. You probably wouldn't even need a survey to confirm this. If they want to keep the building there, let them get a survey to prove you wrong. 100' by 200' seems like a pretty small rural lot. Are you in a sub-division that is zoned residential? Usually rural lots have to be a specified minimum size in order to put a residence on. Was the building in question there before you moved there or built your house? If you came after the building was there and 5 years later you're trying to complain about it, they could argue that you accepted the building where it was. You failed to do your due diligence on your land purchase. If you were there when the building went up, you should have looked into set backs and permits at that time.

The reason the prosecutors aren't doing anything is because they probably get the same feeling as we do. You are really upset and mad over your dog getting run over and are looking for anything and everything to get back at these people, especially the boyfriend. That doesn't make you much better than them, even if there building is in violation. It could result in another Hatfields vs. McCoys feud though. Dave

Best advise on here is what John T is telling you. Taking matters in your on hands will lead you to be the trouble maker the law will deal with. Set backs for outbuildings are often different than for homes so they may well allow it within 5 ft. of the side line. The last time I had a problem with a zonning question, I was told by the head official that I should hire a good attorney to answer my questions. Their opinions are just opinions if it is a matter of law.

In our county 3 different surveyors cannot agree were a line ought to be within39 ft in a 40 acre field!... And they are SUPPOSED TO be EXPERTS !. least they know how to figure the bill... You can spend 10 grand and All you will do is Piz evryone off and be the talk of every coffee shop for years ... Guess HOW I Know ?.. County Sheriff ,surveyor , prostitutor ( prosecutor ) and county attorneys have no energy for this No One Wins battle ,,.. Jesus said in the serman on the mount :"TURN THE OTHER CHEEK" ... you would get alot further resolving this dipute , if you just throw a party for everyone involved for a couple thousand than to go thru all the LEGAL EXPENSE MAZE ... Some folks would rather fight than switch, but it just might work.. or you can find him out roaming around some nite ....and .. Just hope ya' don't wreck Your own life trying to correct his miserable lifestyle ........ I don't know everthing, 'cept some things are best left alone .........