Stray voltage from fencer

we are having problems with stray voltage from our fencer coming into our waters and stock tanks when a heater is plugged in. The water lines are plastic underground. The Stray voltage pulses with the fence. It stops if the ground is disconnected from the plug or outlet. I even have a ground rod in each tank with a wire in it and it still does not cure it. I have checked the fence and it has no shorts that can be found, I have 3 ground rods under the eve with heavy copper wire to it spaced 10 feet apart at the barn. I have had this problem for as long as we live here. The electric comes into the house over head into the basement and the panel has one ground rod, it then feeds out of that panel underground in direct bury wire that is 6 years old 3 wire to the barn into a panel that currently has no ground rod hooked to it. All the barn wiring is new and the panel is new with lights and such no motors or conduit etc. Any ideas how to stop this. It has to be coming in the ground side since it the breaker is off it still happens and it stops if the ground is disconnected. I think its coming in through the house ground to the panel and to the barn to the outlet to the water. The cows and horses don"t drink if its zapping them and I can feel it if I touch the ground and water at the same time.

The grounds from the different locations need to be connected with a common wire. Each ground rod is at a different voltage because of different potential (voltage) because their resistence to earth (ground) is different at each location. A fairly large wire connecting these together is a code requirement. The wire size should be based on the ampere rating of your incoming service from he utility. ( table in Nat. Elec. Code). Contact me for more details if you wish. I can email examples from several clear publications on this matter.

Electricity can do odd things. If you are on a rural electric coop they will generally check the line free to be sure all connections and grounding is good. I had a loose ground connection on their side of the meter once and had all kinds of spooky things happening. Next thing is check to see if pos neg on fencer is reversed and I would run a wire from the water to a ground rod at each location just to be safe.
Or just do the right thing and hire an electrician to find it.

#1 The electrical grounding system isn't grounded or grounded enough.
#2 The ground and neutral should be bonded only at the 1st power panel/service. Down stream panels/pony panels need to have the bond opened between the neutral and ground bars.
#3 the fencer ground rod is not deep enough into good conductive soil.
#4 A steel post driven 2 or 3 ft into the soil is not a ground rod. Two or more 10ft ground rods need to be driven full depth into the soil and joined with #6 copper.Better yet use a backhoe to bury the ground rods or a ground plate 10 ft deep and horizontal.

What kind of soil?

Disreguard former post, you already found someone with more knowlege than I. :+)

Check the National Electric Code for location requirements for ground rod for electric fencer.
I had done some research years ago and have heard of this problem. Keep looking until you find it. It will cause multiple problems that do not seem to be related.

There is a problem with inadequate size ground systems with the electric company. Sometimes they will not accept that they have a problem. If there is not large enough wiring back to the substation the electricity needs a return path to the substation and if the company neutral is not adequate, it will take the path of least resistance to the substation. Start with a qualified electrician to check things out. Then get the electric company involved.
I have already told you more than I know, so will close.

I would disregard the electric fencer and have someone qualified to have a look at the house.
Your booklet which would have came with the fencer would show earth requirements also a method of testing the earth function..

My brother-in-law works for the electric company in Conn. and had spent time at farms looking at stray voltage issues. It could be that the power company would look at your problem without cost.
At any rate, for a temporary fix, how about putting the stock tanks on old tires to insulate it from the ground?
Many years ago while working for the state parks, we had an old refrigerator that would zap you so we had to put a rubber mat down and be sure to stand on that before touching the refrig.
Cal

Most likely not enough ground rods. You have the rods placed under the eve, which makes for dry ground, rods should be in moist soil if you have it. Also the rods may be placed too close to a utility or building ground. I had the same problem years ago. I moved all ground rods away from building and utility poles and put in extra rods. I have seen in one spot a guy had to put 11 ground rods in. Do not use copper wire unless all of your components are copper, class 3 galvanzied coating should be used for rods, wire, and clamps. You should start by testing your ground system on your charger, look it up on line. There is a process that you short your live wires out using steel stakes against your hot wire and then take a ground rod and tester near your fencer to see if you are getting voltage readings through your tester. Go to the Gallahger website, the procedure is listed on their website.

Better check your heater for leakage.Many water heaters will energize the water if the element gets a crack in it.If you get a slight shock when touching the chargers ground rods you have poor grounding.

I have gotten good service from a 5 foot ground rod made from a nail pin for forms but it is hard to drive much in the rocky soil where I live and I guess the rocks provide a good conductor as they hold moisture under ground but with that said I agree you need a better grounding system near the charger. If you go get a residential grounding rod that is about 8 foot long you can drive it at a slight angle and a good hammer drill/jack hammer will push it in for you.

Your service ground and the fence charger ground should be no less that 50 ft. apart.

Check where the charger is plugged in and make sure the hot and neutral are connected on the proper terminal screws on the receptacle. I found that problem on a neighbors electric tobacco stringer wasn"t wire correct and the machine would shock the folks laying the leaves on the conveyor. The black wire should be hot and on the bronze colored screw in the receptacle. Then go to the barn panel to see if the wires are landed correct. Then the panel in the house too. If someone made a mistake that could be the problem.

Check the voltage at the ground rods for the fence. Use a digital fence charger meter to check this. Check right on top of the rods. With the charger on the voltage on top of any of those rods should be no more that 3 hundred volts. If it"s more that"s where the problem is. Anything over 300 volts the rods aren"t enough ground and it"s going back to your house rod looking for more ground. If it"s over 300 volts add more rods until the voltage to ground is below 300 volts.

I have one charger with 11 ground rods on it. Most have 5. Depends on the soil.

Fence charger ground rods have to be replaced over time. Over time the pulse voltage pits the ground rods and loses earth connection. Ground rods for fence chargers should be 8 ft. long and spaced no less that 10 ft. apart.

I hade the same problem. My ground was poor in the barn. I added 2 longer ground rods to the one I had, hooked them all together to gound out the subpanel.

I had that problem with a brand new hog water. I couldn't feel anything but the hogs would flinch when they touched it. Turned out the thermostat was leaking voltage. I checked the ground rod, bonding, unhooked the neutral, everything you could imagine. The next step was to pull my hair out. Finally started replacing the components in the waterer until I found it. Animals can feel a fraction of a volt because they're barefoot and usually standing on damp ground, but if you're feeling it yourself it's quite a bit more than the animals can tolerate. Something tells me you have voltage backfeeding through a ground somewhere. Try putting juice into only the hot side of the plug on the fancer and running a wire from the neutral side of the plug to a good ground rod that's not connected to anything else. Or maybe do this same thing to the water if the fencer is OK. Be careful. We want you to be alive so you can report back to us. Jim

Ok, Thanks for all the reply"s. The problem stops if the fencer is unplugged and it is a pulsing shock which means its a fence problem so to speak. I currently have 3 8 foot copper ground rods spaced 10 feet apart under the drip line of the barn and we have had 5 inches of rain here in the past 3 weeks. the ground lead out wire is 6 gauge copper wire with copper ground clamps. I have not tested the rods for voltage yet but will.

The house and barn are 200 feet away and the electrical panel in the barn has no ground rod currently. Also the ground and neutral connections are combined as there is no place to separate bars. It also does not change if you take out the bonding screw in the panel. It could very well be a connection problem in the ground rods, but the house still only has one rod. I know 2 other area farmers that have had the same problem and never got it corrected either.

(quoted from post at 23:03:40 11/22/09) we are having problems with stray voltage from our fencer coming into our waters and stock tanks when a heater is plugged in. The water lines are plastic underground. The Stray voltage pulses with the fence. It stops if the ground is disconnected from the plug or outlet. I even have a ground rod in each tank with a wire in it and it still does not cure it. I have checked the fence and it has no shorts that can be found, I have 3 ground rods under the eve with heavy copper wire to it spaced 10 feet apart at the barn. I have had this problem for as long as we live here. The electric comes into the house over head into the basement and the panel has one ground rod, it then feeds out of that panel underground in direct bury wire that is 6 years old 3 wire to the barn into a panel that currently has no ground rod hooked to it. All the barn wiring is new and the panel is new with lights and such no motors or conduit etc. Any ideas how to stop this. It has to be coming in the ground side since it the breaker is off it still happens and it stops if the ground is disconnected. I think its coming in through the house ground to the panel and to the barn to the outlet to the water. The cows and horses don"t drink if its zapping them and I can feel it if I touch the ground and water at the same time.

Click to expand...

This sentence has me asking a question or two. " It stops if the ground is disconnected from the plug or outlet. "

1) Which device ground are you referring to here, the fence charger or the tank heater?
2) Do both the fence charger and the heaters have the 3rd ground prong on their plugs?

P.S. I strongly suspect insulating your tank (set on tires) would make the problem worse, by allowing it's voltage to rise more than it is now, in that the tank would be isolated from earth.

Buickdeere has it right; the subpanel should not share the equipment ground and neutral.

The fencer is a 100 mile 6 joule fencer and has only a 2 wire plug. I have 3 different heaters in tanks and waters all have a 3 prong plug. It is on the ground side of the electric. Does not matter if the tank is on tires or not, it has to do with putting a grounded heater in the tank.

Until you get the grounding wiring system down to true earth potential. You and the livestock will receive shocks from the ground system.
This is an example of why people are insane to backfeed a 3 prong welder plug with a generator.Trying to use the ground wire as a neutral.
You fencer isn't the problem. The fencer is proving the electric service and/or ground are substandard and is trying to kill you.
Are you trying to share the same ground rod with the fencer and electrical service?

My pole barn is 220 ft. from the house"s main panel and when I wired it 15 years ago I ran 3 wire 2-0 aluminum underground. Although I never had any problems with this setup, after so many discussions here by guys like Buick & Deere and others, I decided about four years ago to seperate the neutral and ground in my sub-panel and run a separate ground back to the main panel.
I bought 250 ft. of #4 solid copper (overkill?) for the job. I lucked out in that the total (including Tax) was just about $100. I don"t even want to think about what it would cost at today"s prices. Anyway, after reading all the horror stories about using a common ground/neutral in sub panels I tend to believe that following Buick & Deere"s advice will cure your problem.

You could have leakage in the charger to the ac line.I find transformers that short their windings to the chargers case.I opened one charger where an mov had blown to bits by a lightning strike.The owner twisted the leads together.That connected the hot side of ac line directly to the case.Another overheated the old style lightning to fix a loose connection and did the same thing.I never plug in a charger that has the rivets removed.I open it to see what dufus has done before he gave up and dumped the job on me.

If as 36coup suggest as a possibility, the unit has an internal problem, then all the other discussion is moot.

However, even though this has really been said, let me re-state in my words.........maybe it will register differently.

First, I want to examine this: "The house and barn are 200 feet away and the electrical panel in the barn has no ground rod currently. Also the ground and neutral connections are combined as there is no place to separate bars. It also does not change if you take out the bonding screw in the panel. It could very well be a connection problem in the ground rods, but the house still only has one rod. I know 2 other area farmers that have had the same problem and never got it corrected either."

3 wires to barn are hot(line), neutral, & ground...right?

"Ground & neutral combined with no place to separate gnd & neutral bars"
IF this is in fact the case, it has been said that it is wrong & it is wrong & it may very well be the cause of your problem. Why? Because any power drawn from the house must travel thru a loop consisting of the hot(line) to the barn, thru the load and return to the house (properly thru the neutral), but since your neutral & ground are not separated, it returns thru the ground AND neutral...note: gnd & neutral are simply in parallel. This is not good. Because any voltage drop in the neutral now shows up on the safety ground of every appliance in the barn, including all 3 grounded water heaters. IF neutral & ground were properly separated, there would be no load currents in the safety ground & I bet your shocking problem would cease.