OT....Property Corner Markers.......

My parents have a rural (wooded) piece of property that they have lived on for about 45 years, land was originally surveyed when purchased and corners were marked with rebar steel, several years later on NE and SE corners the markers dissapeared so land was resurveyed and marked once more. I know exactly what happened, the property owner on east side of them pulled up the markers. We have talked about this now for about the last 25 years, now this guy wants to dispute the landline and where the corners are. My parents are going to pay for a third survey of these two corners and this time when the surveyor puts his pin in the ground at each corner I will immediatley dig holes 3 feet deep at both locations and put railroad iron up for new corner markers leaving about 4 feet above ground, will also back fill holes with concrete, then I will paint the railroad iron bright yellow! The guy is claiming land that does not belong to him and now is the time to nip this in the bud. My parents are getting on up in years and issue has got to be resolved. They never have walked their boundry lines to keep a check on things, maybe if they had done so over the years this wouldn't have happened. If this guy attempts to remove the railroad iron that I'm going to use for corner markers this time we will have him prosecuted! Anybody else ever have this problem? I would like to mention that I also like to use large truck axles for corner markers as you can drive them down flush to the ground and the hub/flange end of axle is easy to find with metal detecter if it gets covered up. But with this land grabbing neighbor I want hime to see markers sticking up about 3 or 4 feet above ground.

Sounds like a great plan to me. I can imagine that it is extremely frustrating.

so long as the 2nd survey was recorded in the county records it's still the same piece of ground as recorded with or without corner pins let land grabber pay this time!if he timbers or tresspasses prosecute him surveys and recordings dont expire

It does not say in your post where you are located, but in wisconsin it is VERY illeagle to remove, move, remark, or tamper with survey markers. when the next survey is completed, regardless of who pays for it, make sure he is informed about the penalitys your state provides for this type of behavior.

Just be careful. I can understand your frustration and certainly encourage you to make good solid markers. 2-3 yards of concrete with an above ground tombstone type marker makes something pretty hard to move.

Different states have different rules so make sure you know the law in your location before you start. Here, you can have two valid surveys of two adjoining properties based on deeds that go all the way back to warrants from the king of England and they still wont match. My family has some property thats like that. All the deeds refer to trees, rocks, and the line with someone else. Been lots of blood spilled over the placement of the boundary markers over a lot of centuries. Just be smart, keep your cool, and follow the law.

You would think in today's day and age we wouldn't need surveys. Hand Held GPS units can get down to inches...

Amen to that Kyhayman ,,Indiana Law recognizes FAIRLY only a certyified survey, In this STATE that is the only way to Go ,. All other Surveys (yours or Theirs ) can be proven by Whomever Has the most $$$$$,!,. ..and they can be off in my case some 39ft on a 40 acre field .. county surveyor is USELESS , Lawyers play the CHa -CHING blame game of he said she said ,. And Sadly 25 yr old respected aquaintances become sworn enemies til their dying days . INEPT surveyors and fat ugly LAWYERS win and can prove anything if you have enough money to fight it .,I BELIEVE some things are just better left alone. Choose your Adversary Wisely , as mine did Me in ...

It's no more legal for you to remove or replace a recorded boundary marker than it is for the yo-yo you're up against. If there's going to be a new survey to settle the matter, and you want something other than the standard re-bar (like a truck axle or a 10" I-beam) for a marker, you need to set it under the supervision of the surveyor for accuracy, and have him describe it in his survey.

We had a similar problem. I went back and got the exact GPS location, along with a satelite view of the land, and took 360 degrees of photographs of the location. I like your idea though. Take pics of the marker and yours and if it dissapears again, take it to court. Get him to pay back for all of your expenses of getting the land resurveyed 3 times.

It's a shame for some people to be like that.

Here in Missouri, if a landowner puts up a fence and puts it partly on his neighbor's property, and the neighbor makes no comment about the property line and the fence, the fence becomes the new property line. Resolving these things EARLY is the only way to do it.

Christopher

How far over is the neighbor onto your parents property? I have a neighbor that is a piece of crap and I wish I would have stood my ground 10 years ago, but I was nice. (you have to nip it in the bud now and play the bad guy)
Some people can be total a$$holes.

Perhaps once the new surveys are complete, a wild game camera set up watching the stakes would be a good idea. Most places it is illegal to move a stake from a survey. Having photographic proof of him moving a surveyed stake would go a long ways. Just a thought.

Whatever you plant in the ground weld a flat piece of iron on the bottem. This will make it almost imposible to pull out. Plus get a GPS reading on the suvey sheet.

Good Luck
Merle

Take something and drive a rebar about 2' underground so a metal detector can pick it up in case the above ground marker is tampered with

New corner posts will be set under supervision of certified/licensed surveyor and will be GPS. Land is in Alabama and it is against the law here to remove land markers.

Same in Ontario, it is an offense to move any boundary marker that has "BM" stamped on it. "BM" is Bench Mark which surveyers use as their starting position.
In the case in question here, if this gentleman's parents are paying for a survey for a third time and there were steel rods in place each time, I would sue the neighbour for the cost of two surveys as he alone is the person who removed, damaged, plowed under..whatever he did...

greyrider,
I had the exact same problem. Property we bought had been surveyed just prior to our buying it from the bank. One of the corner markers indicated that a bridge over a creek was on the neighbor's property. I was suspicious and cleared the brush so I could get a transit shot from other markers. Sure enough the survey marker was about 35 ft away from where it should have been. (Another person told me the neighbor had admitted to them that she had moved the marker.) I left the marker but put up a section corner fence with 4x4's where I had calculated the actual corner to be. Neighbor came out hollering and so I paid $225 to have the survey company come out and reset the marker. My fence corner was within a couple of inches from the "new" relocated marker. The surveyor told me that he knew it was put their originally since the survey was just done a few weeks previously. I took plenty of pix and the surveyor put spikes in nearby trees (not obvious locations) as references.

We are in the process of fencing the entire property line. The old saying is true: Fences make good neighbors. It is also a misdemeanor here in Michigan to disturb a survey marker, but I doubt it's ever been used to arrest someone unless you've got a video of them moving it. Your ideas sound pretty good and I bet the neighbor will realize you're serious about it. Another thing to consider is that even with a documented survey and markers, don't let him use or store anything or otherwise "take possession" of the land. Lots of cases of people losing property to "squatter's rights" laws because a guy said, "I'll just cut and maintain this stretch of land so you don't have to".

In our neighborhood association a guy had planted gardens, trees, sod, installed bird feeders, etc. on association "commons" property behind his house. We had it surveyed, took pix, called a company out to rip up everything he put in. He was po'ed and called the cops but we couldn't let him "take possession". So, just having a survey won't necessarily protect you. A fence line (tensile wire is cheap) would help.

Good Advise !!

Property corners are (re) set based on recorded deeds, historic surveys, and surrounding property markers. All the historic inaccuracies of previous surveys have to be factored in when setting the location of the corner. This is an issue for registered land surveyors and lawyers, not fancy tools like GPS. There is considerable interpretation and judgement required.

Ordinary handheld GPS units, even with WAAS, are accurate and repeatable to 12 feet or so best case. Only differential GPS, with a base station over a known point, has much use in survey work, and this is usually used for construction and intra-parcel work, not setting property corners. Yes, you could use differential gps to come back and find a property corner, and to check whether it had been tampered with, but not to set it.

The everyday tool of the surveyor is the total station, which is basically a combination of an theodolite and electronic distance measurement.

In 1971 I bought a farm which had long disputed property corner. First sunday afternoon after moving in I was walking property looking at fences to repair when old gent came up with a firm stanse. Said you know there is a differense of opinion on this corner. I took small hatchet cut stob, pointed one end handed it to him said stick it where you say and thats the corner. He looked at me like I had 2 heads. He asked you serious. Yep . He stuck it where the dead neighbor said was correct,said the old devil was always right. He then told the whole story how the fellow family I bought from had cheated his on another lane on another side. The old fellow and I were good friends till he died, them I got first chance to buy from his widow. After realizing how the fellow I had bought from had done him I really couldn't blame the fellow .

I understand your frustration and it's illegal to pull survey corner pins in most states. Keep in mind though, that a survey done by a licensed surveyor is just a professional opinion and has no legal standing. It does not necessarily prove anything. Many times I've been involved in situations with multiple corners and lines done by different licensed surveyors. When it comes to a dispute, often it can only be settled by mutual agreement, or judicial order.
I own some farmland in northern Michigan where this happened. It finally went to court (before I owned it), and the judge put forth a court order giving both property owners easements on 20 feet either side of the disputed line. That to end any further claims of tresspassing.

As an attorney who lives in the country I get a lot of these boundary dispute questions and the laws vary from state to state so my best professional legal advice is for you to consult a LOCAL attorney who practices in real estate law BEFORE you spend too much on expensive surveys and monuments. The dollars spent there versus relying on lay opinions may save you a ton on other surveys down the line. That being said I can tell you a few things in general but DO NOT TAKE THIS as professional legal advice as I would have to research your states laws and ascertain the facts before rendering any meaningful opinion and yet, it would still be an OPINION ONLY as its the Courts who render decisions NOT you or surveyors or lawyers or lay persons………

What many people don’t understand is that a qualified licensed surveyor can render a professional expert OPINION of a boundary location as based on evidence and monuments and deeds and history etc. but HE NOR MYSELF OR ANY ATTORNEY OR LAY PERSON legally sets a boundary (in cases of dispute), that’s a function of well settled law and the Courts to decide. What I’m saying is, even if you hired the best surveyor in the County to set corners THAT DONT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT’S THE “LEGAL” BOUNDARY. That’s why I advise you to consult local counsel to spend few bucks up front (BEFORE survey expenses) which may save you money in the long run. Also as noted below, a good surveyor knows this law better then most attorneys unless they specialize in boundary disputes, so at least talk to the surveyor about any statutory provisions concerning a “legal survey” (and adverse possession issues) prior to just hiring him to set some corners based on your deeds etc…

NOW, in some states there is a way that a licensed surveyor CAN BE USED TO INDEED SET A TRUE LEGAL BOUNDARY. There can be statutory provisions whereby notice is provided to the neighbor a survey is to be conducted and he has x days to respond and/or hire his own surveyor and if all the Law and procedures are followed what the one surveyor (or the 2 if different the Court decides) determines can then as a matter of law ripen into the true and legal boundary…….

Soooooooo before you go to all the expense of a surveyor and setting those huge iron indestructible monuments you may want to at least inquire what the legal system and a local attorney says so all the survey expense isn’t wasted and doesn’t have to be duplicated. Just because you hire a surveyor to set corners DOES NOTTTTTTT NECESSARILY (although could become) MEAN THOSE ARE WHERE A COURT OR THE LAW SAYS THEY ARE

HOWEVER if there is a law regarding a “Legal Survey Process” if its followed then what that surveyor determines (or if another surveyor differs the Court decides) MAY WELL BE THE TRUE LEGAL BOUNDARY and you don’t have to have it surveyed again, i.e. do it right and legal the FIRST TIME may save you some bucks plus settle the matter once and for all.

Thennnnnn theres all that legal “stuff” concerning the doctrine of ADVERSE POSESSION which could help or harm you, again another reason to consult an attorney or good surveyor BEFORE JUMING UP N SPENDING BIG SURVEY BUCKS to simply come out and set some corners based on a deed i.e. be sure to ask the surveyor or an attorney about adverse possession!!

DISCLAIMER,,,,, hey don’t shoot me I’m only the messenger and trying my best to help,,,,,,,,Its impossible to explain here in a few sentences what take surveyors and attorneys years of study to understand,,,,,,,,,,,Also a good surveyor knows this law better then most attorneys so perhaps he can advise you of the process if your state has a “legal survey” statute and you can do it right the first time and not even need an attorney and what he does may become the true legal boundary,,,,,,,,,,,,Then once you have a true legal boundary established regardless if by statute (legal survey) or what a Court determines, then set and preserve and document and protect those monuments, records and evidence.

Best wishes and God Bless

John T The Country Lawyer in Indiana

I use a 1" solid bar but first dig a post hole about 3' deep larger at bottom than top Drive bar in ground and fill around with concrete. He will have to work to remove it. Weld a 4 to 6" plate on top of bar Before driving in ground. Then drive to ground level don't leave him a lever to get it out of ground. that will let you find with metal det. later.

Seems a little petty to worry about land that is just wooded and your parents never walked. Our farm and the next couple around us have no fence line between open fields, no arguements over boundaries some years they're on me and other years I'm on him when I plant it probably average out in the end. If your planning on building anything in the area you'll have set backs you need to look at and I'd go farther than you need unlee you're tight on space. If you have boundary fences most states require property owner to share maintenance and up keep.

Similar thing happened to my inlaws. A guy had a small lot with a hunting cabin on the backside of their property. Well, the guy decided to turn the cabin into a house and put the septic system on my in laws property as well as cut down many trees. He also built a garage almost on the property line of another neighbor (law here is at least 10 feet away). He did all this without permits. He removed all the existing survey stakes and moved them to his convenience. He also conducted his own "survey." So, my inlaws blew the whistle to the town about what he did. Turns out that his lot is too small to have a house on in the first place. A lawyer and surveyor also got involved and after a small battle, he was forced to sell the property since he legally couldn't do anything with it.
I just noticed last week that someone has a 4 wheeler trail onto my property. I blocked it off with posted signs, we'll see where this one goes. Good luck with your issue. Some people just don't get it...

When we bought our property south of Dallas, we had it surveyed prior to purchase. Turned out the neighbor"s fence was about 10 ft over on our property.

Our attorney drew up a document for them to sign stating they knew the fence was not the property line and they made no claim to the property. They signed it and we filed it in the deed records.

We also cemented the corner markers in so they could not be moved.

We later became good friends. James and their 3 boys literally wore the grass out on the area between our houses playing baseball. They had lots of "celebrations" and we were either invited or they would send 3 or 4 kids over with plates loaded with food.

They have since moved. We sure miss them.

Take lots of pictures of it, that may help. j

Yep, setting a survey pin doesn't give you the right to dig a big hole into the other guys land to set your beam. You can use it as a benchmark on your own property just inside a corner.

A good surveyer will not only set pins but identify the locations by measurement, gps, lat/longitude, precise angles, and also measure from benchmarks both on and off the property. They drive pins at road intersections and use points on bridges and other permanent/semi-permanent structures. Then they tie into other recorded surveys and well established benchmarks (basically a plat system). The road department may have a survey when the bridge was put in. At least until the bridge is removed, it is hard to argue that your corner post is so many feet at so many degrees from an identifiable point on the bridge or other established benchmarks used by local and state highways.

I use a cheap metal detector to find 1/2" rebar corner pins in town. Don't need a surveyor to find the pins. If no pins then follow down the plat till you find pins. They may be more than 6" down and dirt tends to settle making them deeper over the years. Same for concrete corner markers. Present practice is to use 5/8" rebar painted on top.

When you have the surveyor out, have him flag the property lines as well so you know where to put the fence. Drive more pins as needed along a line. Have the surveyor measure and record how far each corner of a foundation is from the line. Same for a marking curbs which usually aren't part of the property. Don't just settle for marking the corners which is all a bank or mortgagor cares about. You can help if he is a one man surveyor operation.

Thanks for all the responses. This issue will be resolved in the next week or so, I already knew where the property corners are its just the fact that the neighbor removed the steel rods that marked the corners, I even used a metal detecter to see if rods were buried but they are no longer there. This neighbor is claiming about 40-50' down entire east side of property, he has built a shop/shed that appears to be across the landline. Someone posted that we shouldn't be concerned about the corners/landline since property is woods, well I would like to say to that person that when you righfully own the land and pay the taxes on it then it's yours and not the neighbors. A fence will be erected just as soon as survey is complete, and as far as land records/deeds are concerned we have a copy of the neighbors place as well, he doesn't know that. My parents have had documents for 40+ years of all surrounding land and never had any disputes until this guy gets his parents place and claims he has more land than what his parents left him. I won't post anything else on this matter unless someone directly asks me a question pertaining to the matter.

John T Country Lawyer, interesting points.
I guess what you're saying is that the pin in the ground merely represents someone's (surveyor) OPINION of where that point (as described on a deed) exits in the "real" world.

The Metes and Bounds system (Federal Range-Township) is a "perfect" mathematical representation of land (on paper). When Farmer John sold a "Section" to Farmer Bill, they probably didn't worry about where the theoretical corner point was. A "Section" is a decent chunk of land (640 acres). The deed probably just said "Section 5 of T2N, R3S" or something like that. As land got subdivided into smaller pieces, lengths along section lines and angles started to matter. And turning these descriptions into physical location markers was probably a challenge when we're talking about forested, hilly, swampy land that has to be tromped over. Factor in the equipment and operator and you could probably get 10 different "pin" locations from 10 different surveyors.

However, as long as the deed descriptions are consistent over time, I'd feel pretty comfortable with having a registered surveyor set the pin according to the recorded legal description before I'd get a lawyer involved.

The county should have all the records of all the surveys done. If the last 2 surveys have the markers in the same place should be pretty conclusive of where the property line is. The original subdivision plans should also be available for both properties. If he put up any kind of building that is too close or actually on the property line, the county can make him remove it. I did some landscaping on an acreage a few years ago where the neighbor removed trees, my customer had planted a couple years earlier, and then put a fence along where the trees were. This was about 10 ft. onto her property line. His garage was too close to the real property line. This neighbor was ordered to remove the fence and pay all the costs to replace the trees that he removed. I think he also paid additional damages(for being an idiot) but somehow got an easement on the garage. It was too close but at least on his own property. I think it cost him about $12,000 if I remember. The county would have a surveyor they could recommend and be able to give you more info on what to do as well as a good land attorney. They've probably dealt with similar issues quite a bit. I don't think you need to make a big monument at the corner. Let us know how it goes. Dave

Depends on what reference points were used. In older areas of the USA (earlier settled) like here in New York, the original and only definitive reference marks are land-patent lines that were established 1643 to 1803. Some with slash-marks on big trees, some using creeks that have changed course, wooden stakes driven into the ground, and some with more durable markers like iron pins driven into rocks. When a surveyor does a survey here, he/she is supposed to somehow measure from an existing patent line - even if it's 40 miles distant. Obviously, there are short cuts taken. In my area, local surveyors base their new surveys on line established in their former surveys. So, one mistake made long ago leads to many more mistakes.

In newer populated areas, the system is neater and more reliable. Michigan comes to mind. I just had my farmland surveyed there, and the 1800s section lines are well organized, straight, and well marked.

Some surveys can never be proven, and with them, usually they get settled by Court Order or compromise.

In newer populated areas, the system is neater and more reliable. Michigan comes to mind. I just had my farmland surveyed there, and the 1800s section lines are well organized, straight, and well marked.

Click to expand...

This is true of some parts of Michigan, but UP here section lines are not organized or straight in many cases.

In my case, the county surveyor _is_ the idiot who can't figure out where the line is, but that's another story. I wouldn't blindly follow the county folks unless they were on my side.

--->Paul

The county can't take sides. They would have all the previous surveys and subdivision plans. Perhaps having your own surveyor as well as the county's would be the best. Dave

Your biggest problem is when was the original line set. As time and equipment has improved the markers from the old days are not exactly correct. First see what the state has to say about old lines if they are to be used or new ones established. The neighbor may be correct and you are wrong if your new line doesn't match the old line. I would talk to someone to see which is correct before wasting anymore money.
Walt

Yep, what a surveyor sets is his opinion of say a corner based on a legal description such as a deed. And its only as good as and based upon what his starting point which is often a known Section Corner in rural areas........That being said, if a County Surveyor acting pursuant to statute sets or re establishes and records and memorializes and documents certain Section Corners, they become MORE THEN JUST AN OPINION they become more like A TRUE LEGALLY RECOGNIZED POSITION (at least a reference starting point) ON EARTH i.e. similar to a LEGAL location a Court might set.. Also in a recorded subdivision in the town there are well fixed and established baseline monuments, if they are used as reference starting points the lot lines should come out the same if any 2 surveyors who are competent did the survey

So you start to see how complicated this can all get and why I advised the poster to consult attorneys and surveyors BEFORE just calling a surveyor out to drive some stakes or relying too much on what he reads here.....

However your point is well taken, sure a surveyor is competent and the law consider him an expert and where he sets a stake its probably in accordance with where a deed says it is and thats all fine and good BUTTTTTTTT in cases of disputes theres more to it then meets the eyes of a non surveyor or an attorney who are probably more familiar with survey and boundary law then feuding grouchy neighbors......

Also the original land survey was conducted way back in the 1800"s when they used chains and didnt have satellites or EDM but it was the best they had at the time so its no surprise the distances such as mile square sections dont figure out that way when measured with todays equipment, plus due to the curvature of the earth every so many sections thay had to make corrections

I have worked as a surveyors assistant and have surveyor friends and they are fine folks and am just trying to help here by letting folks know how the law looks at and resolves boundary disputes and just becasue you hire a surveyor to come out and set stakes THAT DONT NECESSARILY MEAN THAT THE TRUE LEGAL BOUNDARY especially where its in dispute, the Court can set it and it may well be the same as the survey!!!!!!!

Hope this helps, thanks yall n God Bless

John T Country Lawyer

I would be interested in how this plays out. I, too, disagree with the post that if its all wooded, why fuss. Encroachment of even a few feet would be objectionable and 40 or 50 feet just isn"t acceptable.

Good luck to you.

My son went thrru this a couple years ago. He bought land then had a house built. The builder put his block fence 2ft on the neighbors property. The builder paid too have the fence moved, about $5k.

In AZ, a county record survey is fact and can not be changed unless court ordered.

Surveyors in AZ are required to be licensed but the son's was not. No penally for Not being licensed !!!

What I've always have done, is set a separate stake 10ft in from each marker corner that's buried and only I know where it's at. That way I can tell if someone has moved a marker on me.

T_Bone

Well I said I wasn't going to comment anymore on this topic unless I was asked a question but to clear matters up this land is rural property out in the country, no subdivision. My parents have plat maps of property that they received 40+ years ago, these are plats that are registered at the county courthouse, they also have the deeds with all discriptions, footages, etc of said property, both previous land surveys were done by different companies about 15 years apart and corners of property were marked at exact locations each time. We know where the markers should be. I don't want to put permanent markers up until survey is done because I could be off by a 3-5' area, there will be no miss understanding with adjacent property owner after this legal/licensed survey is completed because he will get the message! It will be photographed, marked with railroad iron, painted, and fenced off, and GPS with gov't issue equipment. As far as the outcome of this I'll re-post this topic later on if anyone wants to know how it turns out. Also this troublesome neighbors property was surveyed by the same contractors at one time when my parents had a previous survey done, so he dang well knows or should know where the corners are. Mom said he wants to buy property should they ever sell it, no way in heck for him to get it if I have any say!

I am a surveyor in Kentucky. Believe me, we can tell when something has been moved. People think they can trick us, but we can get to the bottom of it and reestablish them correctly as long as the deed calls are good and you know where 2 corners of any property are.

Have the surveyor give you the gps coordinates for the corners if he has them tied into a known coordinate system. That will really make it easy to set them back later if they are disturbed.

One suggestion: In KY monuments take precedence over distance. Therefore, if the neighbor pulls up the corners and sets a barbed wire fence up 10 ft on you, then 20 years later a surveyor will end up using the fenceline as a property line. So, beware of any monuments the neighbor puts anywhere close to the property line.

Around here, the way it works... if you want a survey, you hire a surveyor. He does the survey and sets the pins, which is his OPINION of where the line lays. If the neighbour doesn't agree, he can hire his surveyor. If his surveyor is good, his survey ~should~ agree with the first. If he's a crook, it probably won't.
At that point you lawyer up and head to court... and the judge will decide.
We were fortunate that those who tried to steal our land had no money for crooked surveyors or lawyers. The first line stands...
I don't know about where you're at, but around here it's not so terribly difficult to arrive at a different result every time you set out to prove a grant line on the ground. All you've got to do is start at a differnt point in the other direction...

Rod

and if you just happen to live in a state that most of the courthouses were burnt and deeds destroyed about 150 yrs ago you may never get a clear deed but the court will decide a legal one for you . think of how it must have been. so suck it up and go to court.

Wholy cow whata lot of thread! don't know about what state/province you are in, but I sold 2 properties in New York state in the last couple years. A disput in the 60's between my mother and her relative abutting ours, was not giving in- my mom said "OK, you win, I will go to the county courthouse and tell them it's all yours, so I don't have to pay the taxes anymore", that was the last anyone ever mentioned it. What was a dare then, it the law now. When I sold the place, my lawyer said don't worry, in NYS, everything is now GPS plotted, no worry about encroachments, no more landlocked parcels, nothing not on the tax rolls. You 'own' what you are paying taxes on. Lawyers, surveyors, have thier place in these fights, but the tax guy has the final say in the matter. If not in your county yet, it will be soon. A head's up about walking a compass heading in the woods, since marked off after the war of 1812, the earth moved about 5 degrees, so a nieghbor- otherwise a good boyscout- reading the mets and bounds off a 200 year old deed, might 'think' he owns onto you. Mounds that grew, creek valleys that sunk, all throw him of trying to pace it off.. The idea of placing a large iron plate -say-45 degees in from the corner, with demensions etched or welded on it. Just to help the next surveyor in the next fight. Me and a neighbor had barbed wire zig zagged thru the woods, had to, to use the trees for nailing, or put up posts in the woods? -nuts. But we got along good and knew who's was who's. Take a chain saw and cut a road width trail along the boundary, keep it clear, and maybe string some wire, cows or no cows, good fences make good nieghbors.

On thing you can do to protect yourself (a little bit anyway) is, in writting, to grant the user of your land "Revokable permission to use" described property, then go to the court house and have it recorded. Later, when you have the time,money,desire to fight it you can revoke that permission and it will (might?)help to spoil any adverse possession claim.

This is kinda what others have said but I gotta say it. You want to know why lawyers can charge so much money when it comes to stuff like this (and divorce)? Cause they are worth ever red cent.

A good lawyer will set down and go over your options with you for free or for $100. Find the second best real estate lawyer in your area and talk to him/her. Then go to the best and make sure they tell you the same thing.

Good luck.

Dave

Nancy,
Wish the world had more neighbors like you and the friends that moved on.

This is my favorite story in a good thread!
Getting to literally "bury the hatchet" on an old quarrel is not something many people have done.