My career as a machine designer was always with top management being critical of "over engineering" when I put something into the design to make it wear longer or easier to repair. But when I constantly see on this board the "souping up" of 50 year old tractors and the ridiculous increases in loads the old gears, shafts and bearings can handle, my conclusion is that the old farmers went to the bank to buy machinery that was "over designed". And just to add sour grapes, many of the current day enthusiasts of really old iron never had to make a living with the stuff. Leonard feeling grumpy tonight!
- Thread starter IA Leo
- Start date
johndeereman
Well-known Member
imo nothing can be too rugged that said i work in a factory we have our own draftsmen and engineers they design our equipment they seem to try to show off their talent by designing machines with unique characteristics for example we use pop up tipples simple up and down with about 7 feet of clearence underneathe the line a simple 2-4 air cylinders pushing it up and down would work fine but no they design what they call a swing arm one tiny air cylinder has to roll the whole frame work up and down approx. 560 times an 8 hour shift round the clock the tipple weighs about 1500 pounds after a year or so they are plum wore out then we lose valuable down time to wel on top of weld these things to work why do they have to complicate things when a simple design might cost a whisker more to start but will save lots in the long run sometimes simple brute strength is the way to go as im sure was the theory behind these old tractors
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I just keep keeping my old tractors running like they should. One of them is over 70 years old, and still pays for it's self. But if someone wants to add a little more hp, and break his tractor he should be able to do it. What I don't like is when I see good restorable tractors in a scrap pile waiting to go to china in pieces. Always grumpy.Stan
I worked for cadillac in the 80's. After getting my degree in motor tech. and design. I was very disheartened with one 3 week class I HAD to take called "Planned obsolesence". Basicly If ya build it too good the buyer will not have to replace it any time soon. There for you design it to wear out and you can sell a new one. Needless to say I do not work for caddy anymore. Also I've have always had a love for the old John Deere 2 cyclinders for their longevity and reliability and of course there's nothin like the sound of a "ole poppin John" under a heavy load.
Brian Love
Member
my oldest running tractor is a 1932 my newest is a 1944 i just ride around a few times a year want to see em around long after me
glennster
Well-known Member
leonard, its not just the folks today souping up the old tractors, was done back in the day too. lot of guys turned em up for more power so the tractor could do more work in a day instead of buying a bigger tractor. had some neighbors down the road, their tractors had two speeds, off and wide open. they had a 1486 ih, turned the pump waaay up for more power, then went from a 6 bottom to 7 bottom plow, then went to rear radials and ballast out the wazoo to get more traction, then they blew the rear end of it. then they told everbody the it was a krappy design. hmmm
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
There is a business plan that has enabled the big two to lead the charge to the bottom, GM in particular.
I drive a VW Jetta diesel and the drive train has been great but the German engineers can get carried away. Example. The glove box has a little shock absorber that is intended to lower the door slowly. In reality the attach points for it break in cold weather. My wife's Honda Civic has a little cable that has worked flawlessly for over 200K.
I drive a VW Jetta diesel and the drive train has been great but the German engineers can get carried away. Example. The glove box has a little shock absorber that is intended to lower the door slowly. In reality the attach points for it break in cold weather. My wife's Honda Civic has a little cable that has worked flawlessly for over 200K.
Having worked on heavy construction equipment including cranes, all kinds of industrial equipment, as well as spending time in the Navy on 30+ year old (at the time) ships, I came to the conslusion years ago that nothing can be "over engineered" in the manner your talking about. On the other hand I've seen waaaaay to many newer pieces of equipment/products that had way too much needless engineering time put in them making them waaaay more complicated than necessary.
One thing in general I was thinking about the other day is the setup put on alot of equipment to keep from starting an engine that's already running. There is a simple key switch that is designed to keep the start position from being reached unless the switch is first turned completely off. Even with that switch available alot of equipment has a standard key switch and then a computer sensor reading voltage off of the alternator telling it the alternator is putting out which means that the engine is turning. This info is then "computed" and the appropriate voltage is then sent all the wat back out to a solenoid on top of the started (or wherever) that breaks the start circuit so you can't apply voltage to the starter to start the engine since it's already running. See it's even long and drawn out to describe the way it works, and that's probably the simple design...LOL....The thing about it is let something as simple as a diode break down in the alternator and allow more than say .5 volt through and the computer thinks the engine is running even when it isn't. So, the alternator in all other accounts is working just fine and keeping the battery charged just like it's supposed to, but because of a bad .50 diode you've now got to replace it for $150 just to get your machine started and also eat the half day the machine is down rounding up and changing the part........
I have a subscription to Machine Design Magazine and it amazes me how many times I see things that have been simplified by 'overengneering'. heck along the lines of the start circuit look at where throttle linkages have gone. What used to be a simple $50 cable or $20 rod and ball ends , has turned into 6 or 8 wires buried in a 1 1/2 diameter (100+ wire), $2500 wiring harness, connected to a $1700 computer, controlling a $900 stepper motor, and all recieving their info from another $400 in sensors.......all just to do what a $50 cable or $20 linkage did just fine for 80 years prior.....
One thing I hear all the time is how alot of this mess is being designed in the interest of fuel, therefore money, savings. Thing is this is a good idea, when it works. Unfortunately the "extra" technology that saves the customer $2000 in fuel over the courser of a year winds up costing him $8000 in parts and labor, and another $10,000 in down time when something goes wrong. Yeah, the 'self diagnostic' features are great in theory but in the end it usually comes down to just changing parts and praying that the new part fixes it...sadly many service books nowdays state that approach to finding the problem because there is no other way because of all of the electronics and computer controls. Not a problem if you happen to have a complete machine full of free new parts readily accessible, BIG, EXPENSIVE, problem if you don't........
Maybe after this rant some would call me 'anti-progress' or 'anti change' but I'm not. What I am is against 'progress' and 'engineering' just for the sake of changing things that 'ain't broke'. The sad thing is I hear customers all the time complain about the problems with their new equipment caused by 'technology'. Have any of you seen the new computer contolled, pass code only accessible, self started equipment yet? It has a keyboard...but no key? I just saw two rental machines today, same brand and model number, just one older than the other, one had a key, one had the code. The guy with the key jumped in and the machine was started and to work in about 10 seconds...the one with the keyboard, the guy jumped in and then has to pull the paper out of his pocket and get the code, then punch it in, and then go to work....and had to do this more than once. Even worse try working on the thing when you need to start and stop it multiple times in a row. The key you reach in and turn it from outside where you need to be, the keypad you get in the machine where you can see it, then get back out, then back in, then back out.......BIG WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF YOU ASK ME.....True it's probably done in the interest of being 'anti theft" but they have been doing the same thing on cars for many years and how many of them has it really saved? If a thief wants something bad enough NOTHING is going to stop him from getting it or getting around the thing that stopped him the first time.......A lock only keeps an honest man honest....
OK, I got as bit wordy there but I HATE STUPID ENGINEERING....done just for the sake of doing something different...
One thing in general I was thinking about the other day is the setup put on alot of equipment to keep from starting an engine that's already running. There is a simple key switch that is designed to keep the start position from being reached unless the switch is first turned completely off. Even with that switch available alot of equipment has a standard key switch and then a computer sensor reading voltage off of the alternator telling it the alternator is putting out which means that the engine is turning. This info is then "computed" and the appropriate voltage is then sent all the wat back out to a solenoid on top of the started (or wherever) that breaks the start circuit so you can't apply voltage to the starter to start the engine since it's already running. See it's even long and drawn out to describe the way it works, and that's probably the simple design...LOL....The thing about it is let something as simple as a diode break down in the alternator and allow more than say .5 volt through and the computer thinks the engine is running even when it isn't. So, the alternator in all other accounts is working just fine and keeping the battery charged just like it's supposed to, but because of a bad .50 diode you've now got to replace it for $150 just to get your machine started and also eat the half day the machine is down rounding up and changing the part........
I have a subscription to Machine Design Magazine and it amazes me how many times I see things that have been simplified by 'overengneering'. heck along the lines of the start circuit look at where throttle linkages have gone. What used to be a simple $50 cable or $20 rod and ball ends , has turned into 6 or 8 wires buried in a 1 1/2 diameter (100+ wire), $2500 wiring harness, connected to a $1700 computer, controlling a $900 stepper motor, and all recieving their info from another $400 in sensors.......all just to do what a $50 cable or $20 linkage did just fine for 80 years prior.....
One thing I hear all the time is how alot of this mess is being designed in the interest of fuel, therefore money, savings. Thing is this is a good idea, when it works. Unfortunately the "extra" technology that saves the customer $2000 in fuel over the courser of a year winds up costing him $8000 in parts and labor, and another $10,000 in down time when something goes wrong. Yeah, the 'self diagnostic' features are great in theory but in the end it usually comes down to just changing parts and praying that the new part fixes it...sadly many service books nowdays state that approach to finding the problem because there is no other way because of all of the electronics and computer controls. Not a problem if you happen to have a complete machine full of free new parts readily accessible, BIG, EXPENSIVE, problem if you don't........
Maybe after this rant some would call me 'anti-progress' or 'anti change' but I'm not. What I am is against 'progress' and 'engineering' just for the sake of changing things that 'ain't broke'. The sad thing is I hear customers all the time complain about the problems with their new equipment caused by 'technology'. Have any of you seen the new computer contolled, pass code only accessible, self started equipment yet? It has a keyboard...but no key? I just saw two rental machines today, same brand and model number, just one older than the other, one had a key, one had the code. The guy with the key jumped in and the machine was started and to work in about 10 seconds...the one with the keyboard, the guy jumped in and then has to pull the paper out of his pocket and get the code, then punch it in, and then go to work....and had to do this more than once. Even worse try working on the thing when you need to start and stop it multiple times in a row. The key you reach in and turn it from outside where you need to be, the keypad you get in the machine where you can see it, then get back out, then back in, then back out.......BIG WASTE OF TIME AND MONEY IF YOU ASK ME.....True it's probably done in the interest of being 'anti theft" but they have been doing the same thing on cars for many years and how many of them has it really saved? If a thief wants something bad enough NOTHING is going to stop him from getting it or getting around the thing that stopped him the first time.......A lock only keeps an honest man honest....
OK, I got as bit wordy there but I HATE STUPID ENGINEERING....done just for the sake of doing something different...
Brian Love
Member
NCWayne dont know ya but i like ya thinking good post
Can one build something to sturdy and long lasting? Personally I think not.
However they can and are over engineered with limited lifetime components. Plastic, alum in wear applications, etc. Or just to complex.
With more complexity comes more opportunity for faliure of any component rendering the entire mechinism non functional.
However they can and are over engineered with limited lifetime components. Plastic, alum in wear applications, etc. Or just to complex.
With more complexity comes more opportunity for faliure of any component rendering the entire mechinism non functional.
NC,
I am with you on everything you said ! today's equipment is way to reliant on electronics, today's equipment can function with a push of a button like a video game, or a computer program to keep you on the rows, but when you have a problem with it it is hard to fix. some of these electric controlled trans are incredible what they program in there. they will go into "limp home mode" with 15 different parameters, crazy stuff to fix!. I think if someone made some simple cheap equipment they would sell. A caseIH salesman just told me the price of magnums is going $5,000 because every tractor will have the GPS wire harness instead of being an option. At $100,000 what is another 5,000.
I am with you on everything you said ! today's equipment is way to reliant on electronics, today's equipment can function with a push of a button like a video game, or a computer program to keep you on the rows, but when you have a problem with it it is hard to fix. some of these electric controlled trans are incredible what they program in there. they will go into "limp home mode" with 15 different parameters, crazy stuff to fix!. I think if someone made some simple cheap equipment they would sell. A caseIH salesman just told me the price of magnums is going $5,000 because every tractor will have the GPS wire harness instead of being an option. At $100,000 what is another 5,000.
I saw a 1466 turn 165 hp and never start to load up, the only reason i say 165hp is because that was as high as the dyno would go. the man who owned it worked it every year for years with no trans trouble. I have to disclose that the man's son owns a engine rebuilding company. and he did a good job on that 1466
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
At GOOFY times like this ,with all the EXPENSIVE modern bull /s=== ,.AND GMs 30 year old crappy attitude of Planned Obsolence..(they run themselves in the ground ). Which mirrors END of Life counseling hogwash instead of medical care overhaul that Washington DC is trying to ---k-up...Tried and true ,Year after Year . It is hard to beat a DC CASE , DEPENDABLE , simple , POWERFUL and yet can be tuned to be frugal with fuel for raking in 4th , rugged , tuff , versatile ,reasonably safe and comfortable ,and easiest steering of any tractor in its time ,...why Make it Complicated ???, Years ago , as a 12 year old kid , I learned how to blow out plugged fuel lines , adjust the power jet , file the points to get the Ol ' Dc to run in fine form ,And I felt like a Young man that was ready to accept the future on my terms confidently , Today if I owned one of these new fangled modern B/Stractors ,the 1st time it gave up the ghost , I would be in shear PANIC ,. Because I invested so much in this thing that totally Confuses Me , that I do not understand how to repair ,,. And honestly ,I am not saving that much fuel either ...
buickanddeere
Well-known Member
If it wasn't for the Tier i,II,III & IV emissions regulations. Diesels would not have the computers & electronics.
Once computer control became a necessity.It's a simple matter to add all the "bells & whistles" with a little software programming.Blame the marketing and bean counter departments of companies, not the engineers.
Problem is most of the highschool dropout jackleg mechanics consider electricity a mystical black art. As they have no idea how any of it works. Beyond blindly replacing by rote. Light bulbs, bolting on starters/alternators and cleaning battery cable connections. They are lost & terrified.
Once computer control became a necessity.It's a simple matter to add all the "bells & whistles" with a little software programming.Blame the marketing and bean counter departments of companies, not the engineers.
Problem is most of the highschool dropout jackleg mechanics consider electricity a mystical black art. As they have no idea how any of it works. Beyond blindly replacing by rote. Light bulbs, bolting on starters/alternators and cleaning battery cable connections. They are lost & terrified.
Bud in FLA
Member
I posted this a few years ago - interesting reading on PRACTICAL engineering solutions -
http://www.powermag.com/marmaduke/
Once in a while you can find a story on line. The hard back book is almost $1k IF you can find one.
http://www.powermag.com/marmaduke/
Once in a while you can find a story on line. The hard back book is almost $1k IF you can find one.
To me electricity isn"t a black art, and I have no problem with it when it"s use is beneficial and used with some amount of thought put into it. In fact I just modified two tree shakers from PTO drive to hydraulic drive and used 12V actuated solenoid valves to be able to operate the various shaker functions off of a skid steers aux hydraulics.
Your right though the EPA has been behind alot of the electronic controls on the diesels but to what end? Case in point a customer with a Linkbelt crane with a computer controled engine in it. When the engine had problems nobody had the diagnostic tools to troubleshoot it. Based on what I was told by the OEM engine distrubitor even the mfg didn"t have a diagnostic computer because the engine was on a 24V system, and to even think that Linkbelt or their distrubitor would have one was a ridiculous thought. In the end the customer waited along time before getting the machine back intoi production and to my knowledge it was accomplished by just replacing parts til the problem went away because there was no way to really find the problem. Heck I"m in a similar situation jow with a 320BL CAT excavator. I chased codes and ran the diagnostic charts for all of them and it told me to replace the computer which I did. Now it"s flashing different codes, that when chased out, tell me the new comuter is the problem. The last machine I had do this I had to replace the computer, wiring harness, and the stepper motor all to solve a problem that I don"t have a clue what actually was. Why you ask, because the manual gives repair instructions of "run the chart and replace the part" as a standard practice. Ever spend days and days cutting open a harness trying to find those 5 or so wire in a loomed bundle to trace them out. Ever find the intermittent problem is caused by one of the thousand or so connections on a machine having a terminal in it that has lost it"s spring and only mates with the other half intermittently??? And just when you think you"ve seen and done it all you see something new. Saw a skidsteer the other day (one I mentioned) cutting off because moisture had made it"s way into a relay and would on occasion get between the contacts and make the curcuit just enough for the computer to sense and shut the machine down. The customer lost a day and a half of work over a $3 relay. The first half day waiting on the mechanic to show up from the rental company at which point the machine ran fine, and the second day waiting on the mechanic again when it wouldn"t start and stay running in the morning and then he had to trouble shoot and find a problem that came and went at will.
As far as the EPA and their fuel saving antics and the resulting complexity of diesels I"ll go back to the cranes I mentioned before. The machine the Linkbelt replaced was a Northwest 9570 with a 6 cyl Murphy diesel in it. The Murphy is a big, slow turning engine with not alot of HP (maybe 175 for the one in the crane)but massive amounts of torque. It was designed in the 30"s and except for the in jectors being updated from the ME to the MP series was running on the 30"s technology up into the 80"s when the EPA pretty much put them out of business. The Northwest was a 3 yard dragline while the Linkbelt was a 4 yard machine. At the end of the day the NW moved nearly twice the material the Linkbelt did and on a typical day used 30 to 40 gallons of fuel vs the 130 to 140 gallons of fuel useNow taken in that respect that"s 260 to 280 galloons of fuel needed to be used by the Linkbelt to produce the same amount of material as the NW did with 30-40 gallons. Now you tell me where is the fuel savings and subsequent "environmental savings" are in that situation???
Like I said I"m not annti progress, anti electronics, or anything like that, I just hate to see technology used where it has no business being used....
Your right though the EPA has been behind alot of the electronic controls on the diesels but to what end? Case in point a customer with a Linkbelt crane with a computer controled engine in it. When the engine had problems nobody had the diagnostic tools to troubleshoot it. Based on what I was told by the OEM engine distrubitor even the mfg didn"t have a diagnostic computer because the engine was on a 24V system, and to even think that Linkbelt or their distrubitor would have one was a ridiculous thought. In the end the customer waited along time before getting the machine back intoi production and to my knowledge it was accomplished by just replacing parts til the problem went away because there was no way to really find the problem. Heck I"m in a similar situation jow with a 320BL CAT excavator. I chased codes and ran the diagnostic charts for all of them and it told me to replace the computer which I did. Now it"s flashing different codes, that when chased out, tell me the new comuter is the problem. The last machine I had do this I had to replace the computer, wiring harness, and the stepper motor all to solve a problem that I don"t have a clue what actually was. Why you ask, because the manual gives repair instructions of "run the chart and replace the part" as a standard practice. Ever spend days and days cutting open a harness trying to find those 5 or so wire in a loomed bundle to trace them out. Ever find the intermittent problem is caused by one of the thousand or so connections on a machine having a terminal in it that has lost it"s spring and only mates with the other half intermittently??? And just when you think you"ve seen and done it all you see something new. Saw a skidsteer the other day (one I mentioned) cutting off because moisture had made it"s way into a relay and would on occasion get between the contacts and make the curcuit just enough for the computer to sense and shut the machine down. The customer lost a day and a half of work over a $3 relay. The first half day waiting on the mechanic to show up from the rental company at which point the machine ran fine, and the second day waiting on the mechanic again when it wouldn"t start and stay running in the morning and then he had to trouble shoot and find a problem that came and went at will.
As far as the EPA and their fuel saving antics and the resulting complexity of diesels I"ll go back to the cranes I mentioned before. The machine the Linkbelt replaced was a Northwest 9570 with a 6 cyl Murphy diesel in it. The Murphy is a big, slow turning engine with not alot of HP (maybe 175 for the one in the crane)but massive amounts of torque. It was designed in the 30"s and except for the in jectors being updated from the ME to the MP series was running on the 30"s technology up into the 80"s when the EPA pretty much put them out of business. The Northwest was a 3 yard dragline while the Linkbelt was a 4 yard machine. At the end of the day the NW moved nearly twice the material the Linkbelt did and on a typical day used 30 to 40 gallons of fuel vs the 130 to 140 gallons of fuel useNow taken in that respect that"s 260 to 280 galloons of fuel needed to be used by the Linkbelt to produce the same amount of material as the NW did with 30-40 gallons. Now you tell me where is the fuel savings and subsequent "environmental savings" are in that situation???
Like I said I"m not annti progress, anti electronics, or anything like that, I just hate to see technology used where it has no business being used....
Know what you are saying. One example last year was sent to a job to run a brand new cat 420 backhoe. First day went okay, second day machine wouldn't go when shifted to forward lots of times. Next day it got so it didn't want to engage when shifted to forward or reverse.
Since it was under warranty a cat mechanic came out. Since the forward reverse lever has no mechanical linkage he run the codes and changed a part but said he couldn't be sure that was the problem. 2 hours later it quit agian, waited until middle of the next day for another mechanic to come. After looking at it and several phone calls to others about the problem he said they would have to take it away to try and figure it out. By the time another was brough in at least 2 days time was lost.
Also used a 330 excavator with warranty run out that the swing brake would come on for no reason. Money was spent for several sevice calls over a 4 to 6 month period before they sent the right person or he got lucky to fix it.
Since it was under warranty a cat mechanic came out. Since the forward reverse lever has no mechanical linkage he run the codes and changed a part but said he couldn't be sure that was the problem. 2 hours later it quit agian, waited until middle of the next day for another mechanic to come. After looking at it and several phone calls to others about the problem he said they would have to take it away to try and figure it out. By the time another was brough in at least 2 days time was lost.
Also used a 330 excavator with warranty run out that the swing brake would come on for no reason. Money was spent for several sevice calls over a 4 to 6 month period before they sent the right person or he got lucky to fix it.
I do fully one hundred and fifty procent agree with you.
IMO,most of that new technologie is designed to create economie that did'nt exist before to put people to work that did'nt exist before either(population growth). And not to make it easyer for people to operate,or for mechanics to fix it,cuz it aint.
Nowadays one needs a host of electronic testing equipment and yard thick manuals to figure out what little $400 (OOPS,special order,a week lead time to get) hickemicky gave up the ghost.
Where as before a piece of hay wire to reconnect lets say a balljoint could get a guy back to work in 5 min without having to make a call and/or loose time and money waiting for the doctor to show up.
IMO,most of that new technologie is designed to create economie that did'nt exist before to put people to work that did'nt exist before either(population growth). And not to make it easyer for people to operate,or for mechanics to fix it,cuz it aint.
Nowadays one needs a host of electronic testing equipment and yard thick manuals to figure out what little $400 (OOPS,special order,a week lead time to get) hickemicky gave up the ghost.
Where as before a piece of hay wire to reconnect lets say a balljoint could get a guy back to work in 5 min without having to make a call and/or loose time and money waiting for the doctor to show up.
Some people buy Russian and Polish tractors just because they are servicable. They"re also cheaper new purchase. Problem now is they have to have the emmission equipment like EPA demands and get a little messy- but sometimes (often) the dealer will have the old wiring diagrams for previous model with same engine available for farmer to legally change back to simple working parts even if engine runs a bit dirty at cold idle. Mahindra has similar situation with their IHC licensed built copies- the small parts usually interchange with the older British IHC parts. Some military equipment is designed to be field servicable, some is designed to be expendable. Some of the Russian equipment engineers got their training with military equipment and design a simple,long life, servicable, heavy tractor- others design the lightest, cheapest version of equipment figuring combat hour life expectancy is only 250 hours so a 300 hour before replace with rebuilt jet engine is good (MiG 21). AK47s compared to M16 is the classic comparison- old heavy just good enough ballisticly .30 but extremely reliable with minimum maintenace compared to light , high tech manufacture, advanced ballistic thought .22 that just needs a (little?) more cleaning for much better accuracy. Last weeks paper had a gripe from servicemen about newest M4 after long fire fight- the *&^%$#@! stopped working! Just like M16 in VietNam. Wonder if that is why Isreali IDF Galil is based on AK47?. Mahindra model based on mid 1950s IHC British M/400 with upgarded hydraulics and 3pt hitch is known reliable, servicable and popular seller for years- but doesn"t meet latest EPA requirments. RN
General Westmorland got complaints about M16s from most every unit except one company, did a surprise inspection just before they were going out, brought a couple reporters with him to show that M16s were working for people who followed instructions as this company must have done after their initial complaints. Company inspection revealed all M16s in barracks cleaned and ready for dress inspection- the guns going to field were a few M14s supposed to have been turned in to depot, about 1/2 the troops had AK47s, the rest had some RPDs and SKS45s. Company commander was a Gaurd/reservist who had told colonel what he was going to do to keep his troops alive and didn"t care about career threats. General was ------ about equipment but couldn"t threaten commander in front of reporters after told by commander that company would use what worked regardless of generals orders to contrary-court martial would have really been embarrassing. Chrome lining came next month. Younger brother was with 7th calvary, 1st airmobile and mostly used M60. RN
Similar threads
We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.
Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.
All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.
Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy