- Thread starter bradk
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Chester5731
Member
I think the 59 was a rusted out rat dolled up. Those thing where built like tanks. I can't believe all of the plastic and thin metal in a 09 would hold up better.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
Did you see those clouds of red dust that rolled out upon impact? Yep, she was nothing more than a dolled up rust bucket.
Cars today are much more crashworthy than they were 50 years ago. General Motors didn't even try to add eyewash. They were the worst when it came to safety. Ford tried to push safety in 1956 and chevrolet bragged about performance. People, for the most part, were not all that interested in safety back then. Ralph Nader changed that and the US government started to mandate safety. That's why that Malibu did so much better in that crash test. Add to that improvements in tire technology, brakes, handling. There's just no comparison. Those old cars were and still are death traps.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
The new cars are much safer. The have crash crumple zones etc-they are designed to fold a certain way in a crash to protect the passengers.
I'm a muscle car nut and on several sites I visit I have sen what restored muscle cars look like when they are crashed. Not high speed crashes but regular run of the mill sane driving crashes. Not pretty.
I'm a muscle car nut and on several sites I visit I have sen what restored muscle cars look like when they are crashed. Not high speed crashes but regular run of the mill sane driving crashes. Not pretty.
Josh in MI
Member
It looks to me like the hit it on the outside of the frame rails. Try a true head-on and I agree that the results would be different. Still seems like a waste of a cool old car, though.
Must be southern guys to think that is rust. Reminds me of reading Hot Rot magazines and those car shows on TV where they talk about "Rust Buckets". Apparently they have never been to Michigan and shopped for a 10 year old truck here! I remember my dad talking about trucks with rust holes thet were 3 yrs old with 30,000 miles.
Must be southern guys to think that is rust. Reminds me of reading Hot Rot magazines and those car shows on TV where they talk about "Rust Buckets". Apparently they have never been to Michigan and shopped for a 10 year old truck here! I remember my dad talking about trucks with rust holes thet were 3 yrs old with 30,000 miles.
waltdavies
Member
My wife almost died in brand new 1955 Chevy in a head on the car was totaled so bad that her husband at the time didn't know it when he drove by. Yea built like a tank.
Walt
Walt
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Yeah those old 50's cars were so great-had rust holes you could put your fist through within 3-4 years, paint you had to wax every month to keep it nice, had to have complete expensive $$$ tune ups every 6 months, tires lasted 15k miles at most-more like 10-12k miles.
Don't get me wrong. I love old cars and am currently restoring one but they don't hold a candle to the new cars in terms of safety, driveability or just about anything else. The only thing the old ones had going for them was looks.
I just traded in a 2004 Oldsmobile 194,000 miles. Other than one battery, brakes and regular oil and air filter changes never had it tuned up. Still had original plug wires etc-even the spark plugs. It ran like a top why mess with it?
Never waxed the car once but washed it regulary-paint shined just about like new due to clear coat.
Now tractors on the other hand-I think the new ones made today will never last like their grandfathers.
Don't get me wrong. I love old cars and am currently restoring one but they don't hold a candle to the new cars in terms of safety, driveability or just about anything else. The only thing the old ones had going for them was looks.
I just traded in a 2004 Oldsmobile 194,000 miles. Other than one battery, brakes and regular oil and air filter changes never had it tuned up. Still had original plug wires etc-even the spark plugs. It ran like a top why mess with it?
Never waxed the car once but washed it regulary-paint shined just about like new due to clear coat.
Now tractors on the other hand-I think the new ones made today will never last like their grandfathers.
John (C-IL)
Well-known Member
In 1971 I rearended a 1969 Olds Cutlass with my 1959 BelAire. I cost about $400 to fix the BelAire and I was driving it a few weeks later. It cost $2500 to fix the Cutlass and he drove away from the wreck. They had to replace the whole rearend of the Cutlass.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Anyone who believes the old cars were safer or more survivable in a hard crash has either been living in a cave, or is just stuck in the 60's so bad they couldn't see the truth if it ran 'em over @ 70MPH. New cars have those crush zones, air bags, soft dashboards, colapsable steering columns, improved seats, seatbelts, and even more shatter resistant glass to account for the difference.
I liked the old cars too. I don't care much for the styling or the cost of newer cars, but they are FAR safer in a hard wreck. In just about all cases, old or new, the car isn't drivable (or even repairable) after that sort of hit, but the driver has a MUCH improved chance of walking away.
NO, you won't find a brand new '59 anything to use in the test, so they had no alternative but to use a 50 year old car. Had they had access to a new '59 Chevy, the results wouldn't have varied much, if at all. Any opinions to the contrary are NOT based on reality, just on nostalgia. And nostalgia doesn't keep you alive in a violent car crash.
I liked the old cars too. I don't care much for the styling or the cost of newer cars, but they are FAR safer in a hard wreck. In just about all cases, old or new, the car isn't drivable (or even repairable) after that sort of hit, but the driver has a MUCH improved chance of walking away.
NO, you won't find a brand new '59 anything to use in the test, so they had no alternative but to use a 50 year old car. Had they had access to a new '59 Chevy, the results wouldn't have varied much, if at all. Any opinions to the contrary are NOT based on reality, just on nostalgia. And nostalgia doesn't keep you alive in a violent car crash.
ScottyHOMeY
Well-known Member
I'm a big believer in the vallue of crush/crumple zones.
I was traveling with my girlfriend of the day in her brand-spankin' new '97 Audi A6. While napping I heard a lot of brakes squealing and other odd noises. A quick look around had people swerving all over the place to get or stay out out of our way. We were headed for the left guardrail. Seemed like a good time to wake up my girlfriend so she could see what was goin' on and maybe use the wheel and pedals to do somethin' about it.
Too late. We were doin' about fifty when she went into the rail at somethin' less than a 45 degree angle, but hit hard enough that we pickpoled off it and tore up the the left rear some, too, before coasting back across to the right side of the road. Never decelerated quickly enough to touch off the air bags, but the front end was hash, right fender line pushed over about a foot, gaping holes at the left front, the full range of assorted automotive juices on the ground. If it had been anything other than brand new, it would have been totaled, but the insurance company laid out $15 grand to fix it.
For all the mess it was, I can say that when the dust settled we got out of the car unscathed. All four doors and the trunk lid opened, closed and latched just like they did in the showroom. I had my doubts about the repairs, but we gave it a try and they were good. I followed behind her any number of times after that. It tracked straight. It never was hard on tires. Motor and tranny were good. She drove it another 250,000 miles over ten years.
I was traveling with my girlfriend of the day in her brand-spankin' new '97 Audi A6. While napping I heard a lot of brakes squealing and other odd noises. A quick look around had people swerving all over the place to get or stay out out of our way. We were headed for the left guardrail. Seemed like a good time to wake up my girlfriend so she could see what was goin' on and maybe use the wheel and pedals to do somethin' about it.
Too late. We were doin' about fifty when she went into the rail at somethin' less than a 45 degree angle, but hit hard enough that we pickpoled off it and tore up the the left rear some, too, before coasting back across to the right side of the road. Never decelerated quickly enough to touch off the air bags, but the front end was hash, right fender line pushed over about a foot, gaping holes at the left front, the full range of assorted automotive juices on the ground. If it had been anything other than brand new, it would have been totaled, but the insurance company laid out $15 grand to fix it.
For all the mess it was, I can say that when the dust settled we got out of the car unscathed. All four doors and the trunk lid opened, closed and latched just like they did in the showroom. I had my doubts about the repairs, but we gave it a try and they were good. I followed behind her any number of times after that. It tracked straight. It never was hard on tires. Motor and tranny were good. She drove it another 250,000 miles over ten years.
K
Kruse
Guest
If modern day Chevy was going to pick on an older car, they really couldn't have picked on a better car than the 58-61(?) Chevy. In '58, Chevy went from a ladder style strong frame to a weak frame that could twist much easier. Even back then, people in-the-know would admit to it that the frame strength went down hill.
I still wouldn't want to be in a wreck with either car, but I'd probably take the newer one, especially when your '58 didn't have seat belts.
I still wouldn't want to be in a wreck with either car, but I'd probably take the newer one, especially when your '58 didn't have seat belts.
James Howell
Well-known Member
Let me tell another tall story about a car "built Chevy tough".
Once had a 70 camaro with 307 4 speed back during the college days.
One night 4 of us decided to head north from Commerce, TX to Hugo, OK to play bingo and drink beer.
As usual I was doing more talking than driving and forgot about an upcoming farm-to-market road T intersection.
This particular T intersection was at the top of a steep 90<sup>o</sup> curve.
The stop sign was at the highest part of the curve.
By the time I realized that it was to late to stop at the stop sign, the Camaro was already airborn like the Robert E. Lee of Dukes of Hazard fame.
Remaining calm and collected during all the screams and cries for "Momma" from the other 3 frat brothers, I downshifted in mid flight to 1st.
After we had cleared the ditch and landed in an open field, punched the gas pedal and spun out of the field back onto the road.
Safely back on the pavement it was so quiet you could've heard a mouse p*ss*n on cotton until the most unearthly smell started to evolve from the back seat.
I immediately stopped the car and 3 of us bailed out leaving only 1 of the brothers behind incapacitated in the back of the Camaro.
Poor fellow had lost controls of his bowels either while inflight or upon landing.
Other than a slightly soiled back seat cover there was no other damage to my "built Chevy tough" Camaro.
Once had a 70 camaro with 307 4 speed back during the college days.
One night 4 of us decided to head north from Commerce, TX to Hugo, OK to play bingo and drink beer.
As usual I was doing more talking than driving and forgot about an upcoming farm-to-market road T intersection.
This particular T intersection was at the top of a steep 90<sup>o</sup> curve.
The stop sign was at the highest part of the curve.
By the time I realized that it was to late to stop at the stop sign, the Camaro was already airborn like the Robert E. Lee of Dukes of Hazard fame.
Remaining calm and collected during all the screams and cries for "Momma" from the other 3 frat brothers, I downshifted in mid flight to 1st.
After we had cleared the ditch and landed in an open field, punched the gas pedal and spun out of the field back onto the road.
Safely back on the pavement it was so quiet you could've heard a mouse p*ss*n on cotton until the most unearthly smell started to evolve from the back seat.
I immediately stopped the car and 3 of us bailed out leaving only 1 of the brothers behind incapacitated in the back of the Camaro.
Poor fellow had lost controls of his bowels either while inflight or upon landing.
Other than a slightly soiled back seat cover there was no other damage to my "built Chevy tough" Camaro.
The 1959 Bel Air was a horrible car to be in a crash with - even by 1959 standards.
The "X" frame that GM used for those years was the result of "designers" (NOT ENGINEERS) that wanted to build the cars lower to the ground. The frame was moved to the "tunnel" in the center of the car and "Xed" out to support the axles. It was a horrible design that made the car extremely flexable both on the road and in crashes.
After 4 years of production GM dropped the X frame in time to start building the Corvair.
Other makers stuck with their perimeter frames that ran around the outside edge of the passenger compartment resulting in a higher sill plate where the floor wrapped around the frame.
While nowhere as safe as a modern car a Ford Ranch Wagon (with its steering column pointd like a spear at the drivers chest) would have ripped the Malibu apart since its body on spring steel ladder frame style was still being used until 2004 on their F150.
The "X" frame that GM used for those years was the result of "designers" (NOT ENGINEERS) that wanted to build the cars lower to the ground. The frame was moved to the "tunnel" in the center of the car and "Xed" out to support the axles. It was a horrible design that made the car extremely flexable both on the road and in crashes.
After 4 years of production GM dropped the X frame in time to start building the Corvair.
Other makers stuck with their perimeter frames that ran around the outside edge of the passenger compartment resulting in a higher sill plate where the floor wrapped around the frame.
While nowhere as safe as a modern car a Ford Ranch Wagon (with its steering column pointd like a spear at the drivers chest) would have ripped the Malibu apart since its body on spring steel ladder frame style was still being used until 2004 on their F150.
rustyfarmall
Well-known Member
I won't argue that the the new cars are safer, because they just simply are, and for what it's worth, I wouldn't have wanted to be driving or riding in either one of those cars, but placing a rusted out hulk of a 50 year old car up against a brand new, right off the assembly line car is just not much of a test. There was quite a lot of money spent to conduct that test, and they proved absolutely nothing that all of us didn't already know. The worst of it is, most likely it was OUR tax dollars that paid for that test.
Dave in GA
Member
That was not a true head-on collision. Had the front center of the Bel Air struck the front center of the Malibu, the Chavy front end and heavy engine would have plowed right through to the Malibu"s cabin.
It"s a shame for that ugly, Asian-looking little car to be named a Malibu. Those of us who lived in the 60s and 70s know how classy the original Malibus were.
Generally, the crash safety improvements are for real. While driving a "69 Wildcat a few years ago, I rear ended a late model Camry at about 10 mph, my first at-fault accident. The Camry escaped with a small dent in the back, and a 2-inch crack in the plastic bumper. My 4000lb Buick got a mangled front bumper and both heavy grill sections were mangled, the hood couldn"t be opened, and the front of the frame was bent upward, blocking the fan so it wouldn"t turn.
It"s a shame for that ugly, Asian-looking little car to be named a Malibu. Those of us who lived in the 60s and 70s know how classy the original Malibus were.
Generally, the crash safety improvements are for real. While driving a "69 Wildcat a few years ago, I rear ended a late model Camry at about 10 mph, my first at-fault accident. The Camry escaped with a small dent in the back, and a 2-inch crack in the plastic bumper. My 4000lb Buick got a mangled front bumper and both heavy grill sections were mangled, the hood couldn"t be opened, and the front of the frame was bent upward, blocking the fan so it wouldn"t turn.
Drum brakes run on a single circuit master cylinder bias belt tires steel dash boards and sold steering columns connected to the frame.Amazing a lot more people did not die in wrecks.
I have enjoyed building and driving everything since the age of 14 in 1976.Bought a 69 GTO with a blown motor at 30K.Put about 40k miles before it was totaled and replaced starters/water pumps/alternators and countless other items.
My 99 superchared Regal has 200K miles runs great and has only required a fuel pump, MAF sensor, tie rod ends inner/outer, struts and brakes.
Love the style of the old iron but enjoy safe dependable new vehicles.
That being said my tractor and backhoe are mid 70s vintage and I am collecting parts to build a 55 F-series pickup powered with a 12v Cummins,4x4.p Dana 60 axles and disk brakes.
I have enjoyed building and driving everything since the age of 14 in 1976.Bought a 69 GTO with a blown motor at 30K.Put about 40k miles before it was totaled and replaced starters/water pumps/alternators and countless other items.
My 99 superchared Regal has 200K miles runs great and has only required a fuel pump, MAF sensor, tie rod ends inner/outer, struts and brakes.
Love the style of the old iron but enjoy safe dependable new vehicles.
That being said my tractor and backhoe are mid 70s vintage and I am collecting parts to build a 55 F-series pickup powered with a 12v Cummins,4x4.p Dana 60 axles and disk brakes.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
Very interesting video. It doesn't matter how heavily built a car is, the crash energy has to be dissipated somewhere.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
don't know what happened to your buick but my sister got rearended in her 2006 camry by an old lady in a late model yukon doing just below 15 mph. bumper destroyed on yukon an grill pushed in a little but sister's camry was then in the shape of //. entire rear and trunk wrecked. should have been totaled but insurance shelled out the money for it to be put in a jig and straightend. (may or may not be a fair comparison)
IndianaRed
Member
I learned this lesson personally when I was 16. Spent the summer out at the farm working, and at the end of the season Grandad bought me a 1971 Chevy 4 door Chevelle. Just painted, nice. Took it home and not 3 months later t-boned a darned Chryler K car right at the front wheels. My Chevelle was totalled, the K car drove away. Felt bad on a number of levels, but mostly that I had ruined the car my Grampa bought for me.
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