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American Flag sooted bytractor exhaust at Indiana State Fair

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Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I just returned from the Indiana State Fair, today was Armed forces day, it was the first time in 4 years that our son attended with us, he is a US Marine sergeant, just off active duty, two purple hearts from combat in Iraq. As we watched the Antique Tractors lined up for the parade, a 1968 JD 4020 with 2 large American flags hung off the frame mounted posts the left flag was being sooted up from the chrome exhaust stack, my wife approached the driver( whom by the way was leading the parade) she explained to him the situation and he blew her off staying that it was just a little soot, his last words to her were "shut up",I then approached him and asked him if that was his tractor, he said yes, I told him that the flag was being desecrated by his exhaust stack rubbing it and sooting up the flag, he shrugged and acted like I was holding up his important mission of leading the parade pulling a manure spreader. I asked taht he remove the port side flag from his tractor, he rudely turned toward his tractor and went about his business, my son, now 23 years old stood beside me listening to every word that was said.I AM OFFENDED!!!!I am hurt and ashamed as well....
 
Unfortunately that’s the way of the country we now live in. When they did away with the Pledge of Allegiance in schools and let people get away with flag burning in the 60’s this is where we were headed. Don’t worry too much about this incident though because it’s only going to get worse. This guy may have been a product of those times and that environment. It is embarrassing (not for you but, you’re embarrassed for him) however when grown people react as this driver did.
Semper Fi
3rd Marine Exp Force 1968-72
 
It was his flag,a personal possession he can do whatever he wants with it.Your the one that overeacted.The flags been through a lot more than a little soot.
 
Alot has changed over the years, were afraid to offend a "non" citizens relegish beliefs as well as other things. Hell we even give them social security.
What's this country coming to ? Look at the fool we put in office.

At the rate this country is craping on our rights that our fore fathers fought for were sinking fast.

I hate to say it this way but the flag no longer has the same meaning as it did at one time. They don't teach those things anymore, what a shame.

We try and do and say the "correct" thing in the proper tone and what does it get us ???

I quit doing that a while back, if people act stupid or do things to offend me i tell them.

Grant you i'm bigger then most so it makes it easy, but this is all people understand anymore.

What ever happened to people being nice to each other or just try doing the right thing.
 
I'm not ex-military, but my son served in Iraq with the Army Reserve. I believe that, like one poster said, our flag certainly HAS been through a lot moor than just some exhaust soot. BUT to NOT attempt to remedy the situation is, to me, an example of a low-class individual.

We don't ask that the flag be respected because of the material it's made from. We ask, as Americans, that the flag be respected not because of what it physically is or isn't; we ask for respect for the flag in honor of those who have served under that flag, who have given arms, legs, various other body parts, and even their very lives for what the flag represents.

While our freedoms have diminshed a great deal over the past few years, we still have more freedoms than most nations on Earth. The men--and women--who have sacrificed for those freedoms are represented by that flag. By disrespecting the flag, we disrespect their sacrifices.

Sure, it may "only" be a piece of cloth, and it may "only" be a little soot, but what is important is what that flag represents...and THAT does not ask for, but it DEMANDS respect...respect that has been earned by the blood of patriots over the course of 233 years and counting.
 
OMG Jeez,no offence,but its just a piece of fabric.
Big deal,nothing the washing machine cant handle
You make it sound like its the end of the world.
 
As a mid 60s Army Green Beret- I thank you for supporting respect for our flag. For the ones here who think it is just a piece of cloth, or that you are over-reacting, etc.- they are all totally wrong. Tell that to six of my friends and fellow troopers who died in Nam, and Cambodia, even though "we weren"t there". This week, I"m going to my youngest daughter"s graduation from Basic Training in SC, then back to my old post in NC, Ft. Bragg, then to DC, and the Wall, to find my buddy, 30 years BNR, (body not recovered), but recovered in "01, and buried in a mass grave in Arlington, with the six others who got blown out of the sky when an RPG hit the dustoff chopper lifting off from "where we weren"t there". Our daughter is a 2006 graduate of Stanford University, CA- and chose to enlist to serve this country, including those who think it is just a piece of cloth. Her aims- Psy Ops, language school, jump school- just like Dad- then OCS. You naysayers are disgusting- and living off of the blood of others with more gonads than you could ever wish for. Semper Fi, and AIRBORNE!
 
No offense? (BTW- spell it correctly) Do you realize how offensive it is to those of us who served and sacrificed, so you could exist? It is not just a piece of fabric- it is the soul of this Country- it"s very existence, the symbol to this world, a symbol of freedom, sacrifice, opportunity for the oppressed. Let me enlighten you, as a Green Beret- the insignia I wore many years ago on that beret said "di opressa libre". That means -liberate from oppression. That was our mission, just like Special Ops in the current military. Unfortunately, by protecting the many- it allows for the lower elements to exist. I"ll bet that many Marine veterans will agree with me- we didn"t do it for them- we did it for family and other good folks. Semper Fi and AIRBORNE!.
 

I'm sure you want to show everyone that you are MR. PATRIOT. You get angry when the flag gets a little soot on it and want to cause a big scene. Stop being childish there are bigger fish to fry than soot on the flag like continous erosion of our freedom by our government leaders, endless spending of our money in illegal wars and government handouts, illegal aliens, the list is long.
 
"Offence" is the British way of spelling "offense". (Webester's New World Dictionary)------------Try not getting your knickers in a wad, old boy.
 
Even as a Canadian, I would be offended if someone desecrated our country's flag in such a way. I don't blame anyone in any country for being offended if their country's flag is also treated in such a way.
 
Quite frankly, I see flags treated much worse every day. But if this truly offends you, a brief letter to the editor of one of your major newspapers should provide enough embarrassment to the fair's directors that they don't allow it to happen next year.
 
I remember a neigboring town was flying our flag at their town park and it was ripped and torn. I called their city hall when it opened and I explained to the young girl that I think it would be a good idea for the town to replace the flag especially when we are at war. The young lady seemed shocked that I called about the torn flag. It just didn't seem to register with her!! Some people have tunnel vision!

I'm with you, that man on the tractor was very selfish. I'm proud of your son!
 
I think he should have taken the flag down but as a 20 year old I find it unbelievable the amount off people my age who have no clue about flag etiquette or have so little respect for it. It got so bad with the campers at 4-H camp a few years ago when I was a counselor we started going over it at our flag raising and lowering ceremonies but I still fear we didnt get through to the kids and i don't know if they still do it. Another thing that got to me at our county fair this week was the amount of people who were still talking or not even paying attention to the flag during the national anthem. Maybe it was the home I was raised in and I think I was raised right but it sickens me to see such a large number of people who don't show repesct for our great country whether it be because they weren't raised to know any better or just choose to be disresprectful I don't know.
 
I think you have it wrong.The important thing is he was displaying the flag and if it gets a little soiled well thats par for the course.Would you have flag flying banned because they get bird poop on them or get faded in the Sun? Fly the flag with pride as it seems the fellow was doing and when it wears out get another one.Also freedom of speech is one of the things the flag stands for and peopl have a right to make a statement with the flag regardless of that message
 
My Rant
Some people should take the time to Google U.S. Flag Code. Gives a lot of information. Even our National government & some state officials seem clueless.
If displayed on a moving vehicle, a single( that means one) flag should be on the RIGHT FRONT corner.
It should NOT be printed on items intended for single use & discarded. Eg: napkins, postage stamps, stickers etc.
If displayed on a speaker's platform, it should be behind & to the speaker's right( viewer's left). Other flags such as state flag should be at speaker's left( viewer's right).
In a parade it should be FRONT AND CENTER, or MARCHING RIGHT(viewer's left).
If displayed in a group of flags, it should be FRONT AND CENTER, or if in a single line, on its own right( viewer's left).
There is a lot more, too much to list here.
Personal opinion- if you refer to the Stars and Stripes as "just a piece of cloth", don't even bother showing fake patriotism.
End of rant.
Willie in Mn
U.S. Air Force, 1961-1965
 
A little soot, a trip through the washing machine. OK, maybe the driver should have started with a clean flag.

I believe that it was stated there were two flags on the tractor. Does that mean the driver is twice as patriotic as the guy with one flag.

Please remember, many of these people are in the parade for the show and the show only. It looks like the flags mean nothing to that driver. It was more "Look at me, I'm leading the parade mommy."

Respect for the flag and what it represents is taught by example. I replace the flag on the neighbors flagpole whenever it needs it. She is 78, retired and it would be inconvenient for her to do it. The pole was put there 15 years ago by her now deceased husband. If I don't like the situation, I try to change the situation peacefully.

We recite the pledge each day with our high school students. Everyone rises but if you are not a citizen or you choose not to, you don't have to recite it. But sooner or later, each student does begin to become part of the bigger group. If I am in the hall when it starts over the PA, I enter the nearest room and recite it with that class.

Example is much stronger than words.
 
The trouble with this country is that there are
TOO MANY SELF RIGHTOUS BUSYBODIES telling other
people what they should do !!!
 
A year ago, James and I were in a Walmart. It was when I had broken my wrist and we were at the pharmacy to get a prescription filled. There was a 6x8 flag on a stick in the trash. I couldn't stand it. I asked the kid behind the counter if I could have it. He seemed shocked that I would even want it. I told him flags do not belong in the trash. He gave me this blank look, like "huh"? That flag is now in the back window of James' truck.
 
A few years ago our Home Depot sold door mats with an eagle and our flag on it. I wrote to the home office here in Atlanta and complained that people will be wiping their muddy and dog sh** covered boots on the mats and I didn't appreciate it. Checked in a week and they were all gone from the store.
 
"From one that wasn't there also." Served as Adviser in 60 long before that mess got started. It hurts to see someone disrespect the flag you fought for and your buddys died for, I don.t like it but you just have to under stand these are the same people that don't get it about Gun control, or the idea that the only thing some people understand is firepower not not laying down our arms. If we lay them down they will take us over.
 
Have wondered what is wrong with this country; glad to get it cleared up. I'm trying to understand..........if ONE is telling another someone that they should not be telling another (3rd) someone not to soil the flag, is the first 'ONE' a SELF RIGHTEOUS BUSYBODY???
 
Gotta add my thoughts here, and to those that think its just cloth, or no ones elses business-
Its the same law that will protect all your rights, and law and RIGHT is the same for each instance, not just YOURS.
Flag etiquitte is high on my list, I try not to rant or get to involved but it does offend me. A friend and I just recently had a "discussion" at the local fair with a booth displaying the flag incorrectly. BTW, it was a local veterans organization. So it can happen even with the best intentions.
I was in, 61 to 81. Air Force, you say no biggy there, Well I was in Laos and Nam, and not REMF.
Been there and earned the right to object to uncaring individuals. I also support your right to your thoughts and right to go live where that thought is appreciated, {not US soil}.
Not sorry about the rant, MN Bob
 
First)Sorry,We aint all a literary genius.

Sec)I do respect what a national flag stands for,but it seems like only the ones that serve(d) in the militairy are going nuts about it.(a little brainwashed maybe?)
A flag IS a piece of fabric no matter how you go about,and is IMO no reason to get all worked up about if it gets a little dirty in the process.
It aint the most important thing in life.

I could say more,but its no use,I've heard enough.
 
There is flag etiquette just like there is church etiquette.
You respect ad flag the same as you don't make change in the offering plate. Or phart out loud during the service.
 
I highly doubt he has a disregard for this country or the flag.He probably just thought you were a pain.Probably a chinese made flag anyhow
 
Thanks to all that support our troops and our flag. Those that understand what this is about are true Americans. You nay sayers, well, you have your own little selfish world that you live in and expect others to put it on the line for you or else you would not be living in the US. A teachable moment was in order but it was going to be ugly and it's better to vent. Do any of you know any Indiana State Fair Tractor guys?
 
when I was in 5th grade I had the honor of raising and lowering the flag in front of our Elementary School we had to salute. unfold and raise correctly in the morning and lower,fold,and store correctly. Never hit the ground and if it started to rain we had to leave our classroom no matter what and get it in before it got wet. I bet not many have had that experience at that young. A friend told me the full size flag in his shop came from a Fl. Wal-Mart where a couple Mexicans were changing it and were about to let it touch the ground he asked them if he could have it while he was holding it up for them to unhook. From what I remember in school you are supposed to burn a flag in a ceremony if it touches the ground.
 
I believe in flag etiquette, however if you push it too far and are worried about a flag getting a little dirty, you have gone too far. Cmon. It's a flag. If everyone worried like you did, flags would NEVER be flown. They'd all be framed behind glass and hanging away in rec rooms.

Like someone else said, what about flags that are flown outside? Birds do their business on them. They get torn by the wind. They get dirty and bleached by the sun. Maybe you should attack those issues before complaining about someone who was just trying to show some patriotism and probably had a lot on his mind besides getting his flag a little dirty.

I suppose in the end it's all a matter of personal opinion. Fly your flags the way you want, but don't approach and then complain about someone who is flying one and getting it a little dirty.

NOW LET'S MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT TRACTORS!
 
I believe in flag etiquette, however if you push it too far and are worried about a flag getting a little dirty, you have gone too far. Cmon. It's a flag. If everyone worried like you did, flags would NEVER be flown. They'd all be framed behind glass and hanging away in rec rooms.

Like someone else said, what about flags that are flown outside? Birds do their business on them. They get torn by the wind. They get dirty and bleached by the sun. Maybe you should attack those issues before complaining about someone who was just trying to show some patriotism and probably had a lot on his mind besides getting his flag a little dirty.

I suppose in the end it's all a matter of personal opinion. Fly your flags the way you want, but don't approach and then complain about someone who is flying one and getting it a little dirty.

NOW LET'S MOVE ON AND TALK ABOUT TRACTORS!
 
On a side note though I do think they guy was a little harsh, he could have been polite and not told anyone to shut up.
 
(quoted from post at 19:08:26 08/16/09) his last words to her were "shut up", my son, now 23 years old stood beside me I AM OFFENDED!!!!I am hurt and ashamed as well....
Click to expand...

Granted,,, The guy needs his a$$ kicked for not correcting the situation when pointed out. Just like an a$$ kicking is in order for all the retards that chimed in here and made comments like "it's just a flag, or it's his flag, etc. But the most disturbing thing to me is a father and an obviously able bodied son would stand by while some idiot disrespected their wife and mother without doing anything other than whimper that they were offended............

Maybe just me, but it seems your priorities could use a little adjustment.

Dave
 
Dave, the whole story rolled out as we walked away.My son and I were the first to notice the flag rubbing the chrome pipe, and as the wind blew the flag waved and smoke was blowing through it like a sick pig squirting through a sreen door.So we walked up to the stopped but idling tractor. My wife approached the driver as he was walking up to his tractor from back in the parade line up and I did hear a conversation that did not result in screaming,as he got closer my son and I were waiting at his tractor step and that's when I talked to him...what was I supposed to do? deck him? remove the flag myself? ( I did think about it)I didn't think it was proper to become violent about it, rather, to politely inform the driver and ask that he remove it from it's position as to not desecrate it any further. If you have ever seen the American flag folded with white gloves and and handed to a U S Marines' mother, at his funeral, then you would understand how I feel and where this is coming from. The flag is not something to be taken lightly, display it properly or keep your heads in the sand ( at the beach)
 
UPDATE: After the photo was checked-The sign on the side of the tractor said : 1968 4020 Stegemoller Farms, Lafayette, Indiana. The driver stated that it was his tractor.It appears that he is a parade marshall. It's a shame that you would think that he would know better being a part of the organizers of the parade. To disrespect the American flag and tell a woman to shut up that politely pointed it out to him. It certainly taints the Indiana State Fair for me, I shall never forget this.
 
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