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O/T Cash for clunkers

They are crushed for scrap. The dealers are not allowed to take anything off of them.(New tires, batteries, etc) The engine is drained of oil and filled with a solution that permanently destroys their use. Sme with trans.
 
They are supposed to fill the engines with silicate and run them until they set up, then the vehicle is to be crushed. In other words not salvaging of parts.
Paul
 


They are required to be destroyed. Good use of my tax money.
Good thing I keep my shoulder to the wheel so I can pay for everybodys mortgage, car, health care, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :evil:
 
They ruin the motor,then a salvage yard takes the starters,alternators,radiators,and anything else they can,then they get mashed and go to the shredder.The drive train parts cant be resold.Sort of like a gimmick to claim they are doing something then what they do is wrong.
 
There is something inherently wrong about destroying a perfectly good piece of equipment



Yep!! Especially one th@ runs well & could be used 4 somebody who would apprecit8 it. Most of the "clunkers" I have seen on the "news" are better than the Chevvy I drive daily! (1986). & It is doubly BAD 2 not let them take parts from these vehicles 2 fix up other ones! But, these abundant DEMOQUACKS don't consider th@! **&^%Country Wreckers!! CC
 
Talked to a junkyard buddy of mine this morning. He has been stripping them down to reclaim recyclable parts, tires, batteries and such, draining and recycling left over fluids, gutting the interiors, pulling certain parts that are still good, and crushing the rest. HE did say however, that most of the cars hes getting are junk anyways. His brother who owns another junkyard somewhere, in another state, told him hes not getting many "good" cars, but has had a few 05s and 06s come through.
 
What a great idea, give people 4500 bucks to go buy jap cars, I bet honda and toyota are loving this, 6 out of 10 cars bougth wiht this pale are jap.Why dont we just cut the crap and send tokeyo a blank check.
 
Got a dealer down here that is getting out of the program. Over a hundred sales and no check yet from Uncle Sam.Plus he has five that were denied after he was told they had been approved.
 
I was at a local car auction today.They have around 75 to 100 cars per week they sell,mostly bank reposessions.A large chevy dealer was buying a lot of the older rough cars they would laugh at you if you tried to trade them in last year.These were old rusty cars some with bad engines.A bodyshop owner i was talking to said the chevy dealer was somehow turning them in for cash for clunkers.
 
Now I get the nnalert being wrong on this.I agree.But the country wreckers were in power from 1994 until January.
 
How many idiots turned in perfectly good cars that were serviceable and paid for just because they heard "free money"....then the notes on new cars will come and they will get behind and lose them to the repo man? What will they do with the "WELL USED" repo cars? Where did these billions come from? fresh off the printing press or did we borrow more for future generations to pay back? Another well thought out welfare program by the mob in charge of pushing us off the cliff.
 
Well... Accually.... the camery is more american then the average GM vehicle. 47% of the new cars purchased under the program are domestic (big three). The most popular sedan is the ford Fusion.

And what about all the "Foreign cars" made here in the US??

The honda accord is made in Marysville, OH, accually they make 1800 of them a day there...

Subaru builds the legacy and outback in Indiana.
The Civic, CRV, and Element are also made here.
And If you want a Kia, those are made in Georgia in a 2,200 acre plant.

Japanese car makers made more then 3.7 Million vehicles in the USA last year.

The total domestic parts content of toyotas, including vehicles made in Japan, is 48%. Hondas is 59%, and Nissan is 45%. GM has an average domestic parts content of 73%

The Camery has an 80% domestic parts content, same as a ford 500.

While the big three are cutting jobs left and right, Honda is building a plant with 1,500 jobs in the Midwest.

The bulk of Toyotas profit stays in the US to invest in new plants and equiptment.


http://inventorspot.com/articles/made_usa_honda_accord_celebrates_7912

http://www.dispatch.com/live/cont...ories/2008/10/13/honda_civic.html

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080702145602AALp3Tf

http://eng.kia.sk/news/index.php?news&data_id=133

http://www.boston.com/cars/news/a.../24/made_in_america_hard_to_tell/
 
The Auto Recyclers Assn site (a-r-a.org) has a Q&A section; bottom of pg 5 has:
"...NHTSA requires...crush or shred...including the engine block and the drive train (unless, with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft and rear end are sold separately)..."
(Obviously written by someone who forgot front wheel drive or didn"t know anything about it).
Presumably that"d be the present requirement, but the site may not be up to date. My understanding is that alternators, etc, can be and are being stripped before crushing.
 
Trucker40 can rant and rave about the Bush years all he wants, but the gang in power now is more brazen with throwing OUR money out the window in the name of "we know what's best for you" than anyone ever has been. First they said a billion dollars ought to be right for the Cash for Clunkers. It was supposed to jump start the auto business by selling about 200,000 cars. Then, when the govt subsidy of a car purchase runs out, they TRIPLE the handout by adding 2 billion more $$$. What will they do when THAT runs out and car sales drop back to market based levels?

And the environmental aspect of it is a real scam. There will be NO appreciable drop in gas usage due to this program. Same with pollution. The air will be no cleaner than it was before. I dare someone to ask external_link in 2 years to release EPA data showing the benefit of spending $3 billion to remove some perfectly good running cars off the road. A lot of people were just fine using those cars to get back and forth to work. Just another "feel good" Democratic program being shoved down our throats.

And now they're going to ram this god-awful health care bill down our throats. This, after passing cap-and-trade which will only benefit the likes of Goldman Sachs and Al Gore's Carbon Credit Trading Company.

Cash for Clunkers, Cap-and-Trade, Health Care Reform. Geez, Bush is looking like a genius compared to what these guys are doing.

And don't dare show up at a town hall meeting and voice your opinion. You will be labeled as part of a "nnalert organized mob". I guess it's ok for the nnalert to organize protesters for civil rights marches, get out the vote and pro-abortion rallies, but if ordinary citizens do it who do not toe the abundant Democratic line, it's not ok.
 
cap and tax......... those who will benefit most from it, goldman sachs and al gore are on the path to make bernard madoff look like a common shoplifter. perhaps the biggest scam/con/theft in the history of the world. In 100 years if cap and tax works exactly as planned it will decrease the temp on the planet 1/10..... or .1 of one degree...talk about effecient use of money.
 
Now I get the nnalert being wrong on this.I agree.But the country wreckers were in power from 1994 until January.



Well, I didn't vote 4 Shrub! (But I am glad he got in instead of the Demoquacks th@ ran against him!) I usually vote LIBERTARIAN, which is IMHO the ONLY way 2 go! However, in '08, I sucked it in & voted 4 the Lesser of 2 Evils! (McCain!!) Why? Because I foresaw wh@ these Tax&Spenders would do 2 MY COUNTRY! I thought! However, I was wrong..the REALITY WAS WORSE!! CC
 
Well Lanse if a young guy like you thinks that it is a good thing to have the foreign companies own plants over here I can see that we are doomed. Our people gave them all kinds of land, tax breaks and other goodies to start their factories over here. Do you really think that they want to to be located over here to help us out? They are over here for our MONEY. Did you ever hear of the balance of payments? Who is going control us in the end? It might be the ones with the most money. Like I said before in a post that got spoofed. To me it looks like a big monopoly game and the Japanese are installing the red hotels and we are removing our little green houses and then we will mortgage our property.
 
On your first point, a lot of people are working because of cash for clunkers (CFC). What do you want everybody to do, just roll up the sidewalk and go home? I think they need another statistic for the CFC's program, how many Repugs used it.
Second, drop in gas usage and air pollution, you say how bad and it's not working but you want future print outs to prove your point. You don't know, but it looks like if you take a bad running, worn out car off the road and put a clean new one on, it would be less pollution and while the CFC target mileage was 22mpg the news just said the average buyer is buying a vehicle that is getting 60% better mileage than what they turned in.
They say the health care is going to be broke in the coming years and even with your present plan you will have higher premiums and deductibles.
You're being lead around by the insurance companies.
If your congressperson could actually hear the supposed problems with the new health care and everybody was calm and on a united front, that would scare them more and send a stronger message then listening to a bunch of plants shouting over them.
The tactics used appear be like this....

We will undermine the morale of the people of America. . .. Once there is confusion and after we have succeeded in undermining the faith of the American people in their own government, a new group will take over; this will be the German-American group, and we will help them to assume power.
-- Adolf Hitler, 1933
 
I dont like this either.Cap and trade did not pass the Senate yet.I dont like this cap and tax and it shows that the nnalert biggest flaw is trying to tax us to death.I think the thing to do is tell the nnalert they wont pass this and if they try to sneak something in through the EPA they will loose the next election.EPA is not elected and needs to be torn down if they are going to abuse it.These sure look like a bunch of snakes,but it was George Bushes idea to give the bankers 700 billion and run the deficit to 12 trillion and we got nothing for it except higher fuel prices,less jobs and lower wages with rising costs.I am sure not very happy with this bunch,I think they are as bad as the nnalert.They have to be watched like a hawk.If they dont straighten up they will loose power and very well deserve to.A lot of payoff money had to be distributed to get all those members of the House to vote for this,and thats as nnalert as it gets.Now the other side seems to be crazy.Its like they are telling any lie they can to keep things like they are,which is getting worse every day.I dont see the good side here.Both sides are bought out.If the nnalert dont want to be further marginalized they have to get control of the issue and tell the truth.If they had a plan for health care that sounded better than the nnalert they could stop seeming like they were insane.All this hollering and crying at town hall meetings is going to turn people trying to get something done against them and could start a fight.Already has in a place or 2.Now thats real smart huh?Stir the people up with a lunatic like Rush Limbaugh and wonder why people think you are crazy?Dont offer an alternative is all you have to do to loose.If you loose now its all your fault.I actually would like to see the nnalert win on the cap and tax,beat them up over the clunker show,and come up with real reform on health care and force them to fix it right.Wont happen because there are too many crooks running things on the nnalert side and are too cozy with the insurance companys.The insurance companys,hidden tax,EPA sneak attack,and other scummy things need to be addressed,by the nnalert and they need to win the argument and not look like a bunch of sissys sticking their head in the sand because the big shots running the nnalert are still behind the scenes screwing things up.nnalert too.Disgusting.
 
Lanse would be right, we have to have jobs. Until you figure out how to force Congress into some protectionism, balance of trade, and all players are on an equal playing field (no pollutants, equal wages for all players, not government funded, etc..) then we have to go with what we have.
 
Ask one of the employees that work there, if they would rather work for a foreign company or not at all! I persoanlly would rather work than to have things handed to me by the sweat of the working man!
 
I have voted for Libertarians and Ross Perot in the past,but I finally accepted the fact that all that will win is a nnalert or a nnalert.If things were right in the world all of these people,or at least most of them,on both sides,would be in prison.The nnalert have actually ruined the country.The reason they did was because the nnalert were too stupid and weak to stop them.Now that they are back in,they deserve to be beat up on every issue they try and advance thats not in the best interest of the people.I dont know any other way to put it.You could not get the nnalert to do anything right because they wont listen to the people and are bought off.Now all the nnalert are trying to do is wrong and bought off.Since the nnalert are trying to do something,make them do it right is all I can come up with.Or next election,we all pick a third party,and vote only for the 3rd party.George Wallace came real close one time to winning,but he probably caused us to get Nixon for President.Im not sure that was a good thing.It did marginalize the nnalert for decades.
It seems like these nnalert now are going to jam as much through as they can,and dont even know if its right or wrong.Its like its all been stuck in a log jam since the 1970s and they are going forward whether it will work or not.I guess they are doing something,even if its wrong.
 
Hey Crem, who gave them land? They bought the land from some good american land owner (probably some rich farmer)
 
Some of those Honda's and Toyota's are more American than the "American" cars and trucks. My Dodge 2500 was assembled in Mexico. My Civic was made less than 30 miles from my house. And a lot of people around here are living very well on Honda wages and are much less worried about layoffs than the average UAW worker.
 
This program has not put ANYONE back to work, at least not yet.
And as for the environment, This is actually worse for the environment because of all the pollution generated by destroying these cars and eventually the pollution generated by building a lot of new ones. Have you seen the youtube videos of them running engines until they blow!?
 
"ANYONE back to work"
Depends on how you look at it, they got to go back to work the next day instead of staying home.
A little 15 min run to destroy the engine probably doesn't have much to do with anything.
"eventually the pollution generated by building a lot of new ones"
Really a mote point, do you want them to quit building cars?
 
Heyseed, here is a link to some of the subsidies given to the foreign countries.
I grew up in the era when the Japanese were taking over the electronics industries by selling under cost until we couldn't compete. Then they started to import small pickups that were called cars until the had the tail gate added and then they were a truck again. This was done to circumvent some of our rules. There were a lot of pay offs and some our own people sold us out. Then they started selling vehicles below cost and our companies started getting parts made in foreign companies so that they could compete. So here we are and I don't like it but you may. So far we are still able to have these discussions and not get locked up. :eek:)
foreign car subsidies
 
A lot of vehicles that might have been donated to charity were sent to the crusher. Charities and the people they help are losing out big time.
 
I don't get into politics that much but I think next election a farmer should run for president at least he knows how the world turns
 
You're probably right, I imagine most donated vehicles are on their last leg. I don't agree with destroying the eng/trans, these would just to replace worst eng/trans.
 
Sorry guys - but bad info.

Salvage is permissible except for engine and some drivetrain parts. Yard must crush/shred after 180 days. Here"s the pertinent part of the law:

§ 599.401 Requirements and limitations for disposal facilities that receive trade-in
vehicles under the CARS program.
(a) The disposal facility must:
(1) Not more than 7 days after receiving the vehicle, report the vehicle to
NMVTIS as a scrap vehicle.
(2) Remove and dispose of all refrigerants, antifreeze, lead products, mercury
switches, and such other toxic or hazardous vehicle components prior to crushing or
shredding in accordance with applicable Federal and State requirements;
(3) Crush or shred the trade-in vehicle onsite, including the engine block and the
drive train (unless with respect to the drive train, the transmission, drive shaft, and rear
end are sold separately), using its own machinery or a mobile crusher, within 180 days
after receipt of the vehicle from the dealer or salvage auction;
(4) Not more than 7 days after the vehicle is crushed or shredded, report the
vehicle to NMVTIS as crushed or shredded.
(b) The disposal facility may not sell or transfer the engine block of the vehicle or,
except as allowed under paragraph (c)(2) of this section, the drive train before they are
crushed or shredded or otherwise allow the vehicle to leave the disposal facility before it
is crushed or shredded.
(c) The disposal facility may:
(1) Sell any part of the vehicle other than the engine block or drive train;
(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (c)(1) of this section, sell the drive train provided
the transmission, drive shaft, and rear end are sold as separate parts;
(3) Retain the proceeds from parts sold under this paragraph.
 
i have watched a few of those and it literally makes me want to puke. I have spent most of my life just barely getting by, most of my cars and trucks were junk, i have every way imaginable kept them going with band aids and bubble gum so I could get to work the next day and still eat and pay my bills, and these clowns are trashing good cars and laughing about it. IT MAKES ME SICK. That is my money they are wasting....MONEY I HAVE EARNED...not just some handout joke. This is not some sick joke, it is the Countries future......which is getting bleaker by the second.
 
Not back to work as in they haven't opened up any new factories to build more new cars. This will at very best increase existing production for a short time, while increasing the deficit.
If they sold the good used cars and salvaged useable parts off the old ones it would not result in the pollution of completely destroying the cars.
 
Lance you missed one. Mercedes-Benz builds most of their vehicles in Alabama. I've seen the plant driving by heading to Connecticut.. They event have a a crash test coarse.
 
You sure did!!! lol.... We're loosing all these old wagons and full sized sedans with huge backseats in em.... And all thats left are these little priuses!! lol :)
 
The cure all for free speech: flag@whitehouse. gov

The commissars ARE alive and listening!

The kneegrow wants YOU!
 
(quoted from post at 09:38:08 08/08/09) What a great idea, give people 4500 bucks to go buy jap cars, I bet honda and toyota are loving this, 6 out of 10 cars bougth wiht this pale are jap.Why dont we just cut the crap and send tokeyo a blank check.
Click to expand...

Most of the cars being bought are foreign-badged because the morons at the Big 3 are not smart enough to build cars that qualify or that people relly want. That's why the government had to bail 2 of them out.
 
tlak,
OK,
The target was to sell about 225,000 cars under CFC. Assume that both the clunker and new car were driven about 20,000 miles/year. Assume that the average clunker was getting 17 mpg and that the avg replacement will get 25 mpg. Both sets of cars would be driven about 4.5 billion miles per year. At 17 mpg, the clunkers would use about 265,000,000 gallons or 6,300,000 BARRELS of oil in a Year (42 gals/barrel). The new cars would use 180,000,000 gallons or 4,285,000 BARRELS in a Year. The savings would be 85,000,000 gallons or 2,025,000 BARRELS in a YEAR. The latest posted data shows DAILY motor vehicle usage of oil at almost 9,000,000 BARRELS a DAY for 2008.

So the projected savings in a YEAR is less than a quarter of our DAILY usage??? Somebody please check my math. Am I wrong?

If I'm not, then we we could have bought 14,000,000 barrels of oil (at $70/barrel) with our billion dollars which would be enough to fuel those clunkers for 2 years.

Now, assuming that Joe Blow has a nice new car, there is a good chance he'll drive it MORE than the clunker, which means there is a good chance overall oil consumption will go UP.

Again, can't prove anything, but I can guarantee that the spin doctors in DC will never allow any statistical analysis or studies done that would show anything but the program was a success.
 
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