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health insurance and health care costs??? No politics please

A

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
Just heard something on the radio and started googling. I can't believe what I saw for prices in just random procedure costs. No wonder health insurance is so expensive for you folks... Coupla things I had over the last few years and the cost.

Bust appendix and about kicked off, 2 weeks in the hospital. Total bill was 3500 bucks.

Hemoroid Surgery from going to the doc w/ a sore a$$ to referrals and finally the rotorooter and follow up. 1100 bucks

Dental checkup/cleaning 50 bucks

"" 2 fillings and a root canal 220 bucks



I pay 150 bucks a month for insurance w/ 400 buck deductable (my portion of American Insurance). Can get German insurance for about 300 bucks a month with no deductable, but it's more trouble than it's worth.

Differences are unbelievable.

Dave
 
My apendix blew out back in 97. Spent 8 days in the horsepistol. 3 in I.C.U. Cost the insurance company over $13,000. Black Osama's picking up 65% of the premium on this "keep your insurance from your former employer" COBRA deal,so we still have the Blue Cross with dental that the wife had when she was working for just under $500 a month. Suppose if she ain't working by the time that runs out,we'll have to go with Blue Cross through Farm Bureau. Haven't even priced that. Don't think I want to know.
 
Yes its cheaper in America too if you get it done by a Rotorooter guy.With mirrors and Dremel tool you can do your own cavities.
 
You don't really believe anyone can answer this without "politics", do you?

For my part, I see a couple things at play here. First is that the cost of litigation is probably higher in the US, so malpractice insurance rates are higher. Malpractice premiums are passed on to the consumer like any other cost of business. Second, there may be more government-mandated paperwork in the US (notice I said "may". I really don't know) which would require more healthcare administrative staff, again, the cost of employing those people get passed on. Third, Medicare payments to hospitals and doctors are capped by the Federal government, and those payments may not cover the cost of providing the care. If so, the deficit needs to be made up by the rest of the population in the form of higher costs.
 
Only $3500 for a ruptured appendix?

My gallbladder removal surgery was $8500 and that was 12 years ago. The procedure took 2-3 hours and 1 night in the hospital. (what a racket that is) But....If I didnt have the surgery I would have died, so the price comes secondary doesnt it.
 
My and the wifes MediCare Supplement thru Blue Cross Blue Shield/Michigan Farm Bureau runs $642.54 per 3 Months FYI
 
Keepin' the politics out of it, I'll accede to your observation on the disparity in costs.

We had a busted appendix episode just about this time last year. There was a complication from Crohn's that necessitated going in a second time. 12-day stay, two surgeries instead of one.

$84 grand, please. This for a child graduating from college whose coverage under her mother's plan dropped about five days aftr the first surgery, and who didn't want to pay for COBRA. ("I never get sick in the summer!" she said. I can still hear those words clearly.) Well, mister, you can bet I got her paperwork filled out so that she, in her drug-induced haze could sign them and a check, and got her COBRA coverage started up.

Later complications and two follow-up surgeries(DVT, adhesions that twisted the bowel, and reconnecting the bowel to get rid of the ostomy put in in the second surgery, in that order), she ran up a grand total of about $200k. And she grumbles that her part of that is $7500. But she didn't grumble about paying the COBRA after I explained that the $2500 over several months paid for the other $192,500. A bright kid, but sometimes it takes ball bat to open her eyes.

I couldn't imagine how I'd have started out in life with a bill like $200k hanging over my head.
 
my medicare supplement plus prescription coverage.blue cross blue shield new mexico costs 37.50 a month
 
Went to take my wife to the Doc appointment for a check up, some kind of yearly thing they say they have to do to fill perscriptions.
I went along to observe.

the Doc listened to her heart, asked her how she's doing on her meds, talked about the weather, and home life, the Doc did some clicking on his computer, the show took about 35 - 40 minutes, the bill was a little over two hundred bucks, from that we pay $20.00 for co-pay.
 
something needs to be done the government is the only one with the power to tell the giant insurance companies making millions that the preexisting conditions have to go .
 
My grandaughter induced some of her own body waste products when she was delivered in a small hospital. All was ok till the nurse said she had to be taken to another larger hospital a hr after delivery.

Four days in the hospital, mom stayed there 24/ 7. The had 80-20 insurance--out of the pocket cost to the kids was $32,000.00

The grandaughter had no surgery, mom nursed her etc. The little one is 2 1/2 and always was perfectly normal.

And no, the hospital is not real nice about payments.
 
If everybody had health insurance, common sense would tell that there might be some lines. Common thing you heard about Canada's insurnce.
News reported that some insurance CEO pulled 20%? of every medical dollar, that's a lot of money, you wonder why there's such a push to keep things status quo.
 
I wonder what the tort laws are like in Germany? I know many doctors here in the U.S. complain loudly about unreal malpractice insurance costs, and they must pass them along.
 
20% of every dollar spent on medicine goes to CEO's, and you believe it. That's about par for you. t-laking in brain cells.
 
Just talked to my bil - he is paying $1200 per month for himself, his wife & a 6 year old son. But it has a 5K deductible.
 
(quoted from post at 16:28:10 07/21/09) I hope you are using the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion for your US tax filing.
Click to expand...

Only contractors and some others can do that. I am a US Government employee so I get the benefit of paying all taxes .

Dave
 
First my compliments to every one for keeping this clean with no politics.
Seems strange that Medicare costs me, I think its 96 dollars a month and pays 80 percent. My supplement insurance that pays the other 20 percent, cost 240 dollars a month. I can't understand that one.
BTW: 3 years ago my ICD listed Medicare at $168,000.00 plus hospital costs. Worth every penny of it.
 
medicare is insolvent. It is paid for by the taxpayer. I mean that in a totally non political way.
 
Son"s wife messed up her leg and had to have an MRI. They have insurance with a high deductable and it keeps the premiums down. The son asked how much they would bill insurance, which he in turn would have to pay. They said $1100. He asked, how much if I pay you cash. They said $500. Guess what he did.

Medical care is not the problem. We have very good medical care. The problem is insurance.

Bob
 
I'm sure the government could really streamline those figures. They are a model of efficiency.
 
I spent New Year's eve in the ER. ER doc was sure my appendix had burst and he was all for prepping for surgery. After a CAT scan, it turned out that I had a nice sized kidney stone. Total for my New Years "celebration" was just over $9000. I got to pay for around $7000 of the that even though we have decent insurance. $3000/ $6000 deductable that hadn't been touched until that night. I wish I could have held out for 1 more day. I figure I paid for my time in the ER and probably a few others.
 
I have a 30 year career in "government insurance"

Use to be called Federal Crop Insurance, now Multi Peril Crop Insurance (MPCI)

It was originally legislated in 1935 because of the thinking that catastrophic crop losses were, you guessed it, "too big" for private industry to tackle.

It kinda drifted along with 5 or 6% participation until the Crop Insurance act of 1980.

Guess what, they "reformed" it. But it really started out pretty straight forward and simple.
One of the key aspects was that it was supposed to be actuarially sound, ie. the premium paid by the farmer, plus the government subsidy was supposed to pay for the losses. I understood every part of it, could recite the policy word for word, etc.

So over the years it has been "reformed" about a dozen times, actuarial soundness went out the window in about 1995 or so, then came in all sorts of crop policies with bells and whistles, new coverages, prevented planting, replant, etc.

But then some folks were dishonest, other folks got jealous that someone might legitimately collect from two failed crops in the same crop year.

Enter Fraud, Waste and Abuse rules and millions upon millions in computers, programs and people to catch a few scumbags. But wait, some crop agents might have written a policy on their second cousin, enter Conflict of Interest rules
And on and on and on.

It is now the most complicated, technical, convoluted program. I don't think there are 25 people in the entire US that honestly understand every aspect of the program. And like the Energizer bunny it just keeps going.


Crop insurance just affects a small percentage of the US population. You dont want to see how bad they mess up something as big as health care!

Oh, and everyone keeps badmouthing ins. companies because of pre-existing conditions. Like them or not, they are a business and need to make money. Profit is not a bad word.
And I feel terrible for folks that have those problems, but try buying insurance on your barn once it is already on fire.

We need to have this debate.

Gene
 
I"m a retired Gov. Employee. Over 39 years. Decent retirement. Every one knows, Gov retirees have great insurance, right. How would you like to cough up $535 a month for United Health Care. Sure does take a bite out of the check.
 
I tried three times and cannot keep it nonpolitical. I work inside the health care system if you only knew the problems from the political aspect.
 
Was the 3500 your part or the total bill?

My dental isnt too bad. It was 85.00 for a cleaning and check up.

Surgical, OMG. My mom just had brain surgery, twice in three days, a week in ICU, a week in the regular hospital, and a month in a rehab hospital. 470,000 and change, and the bills still coming in.

Knee operation on me for MCL, PCL, meniscus repair and some screws in the bone ran me 55,000.
 
Forgot to add one thing, probably most important. Tort reform. Take the lawyers out of the equation and things would get back to normal. Personal Injury attorneys, with all their adds on TV are going to bring down what system we do have.

I would also like to see "looser pays" laws. Fine, you want to take the chance on suing someone, fine, if you loose you pay the other persons defence costs.

Gene
 
Holy smokes on the dental costs. I am on Medicare so I do not have any dental insurance. I had a problem on my upper two back teeth and they crowned the first one for $1135. On the back tooth I had a choice of pulling it for a few hundred or having a root canal and a crown. I decided to save it as the tooth below it was good and I didn't want to cause problems with that one. So the cost was going to be $1200 for the root canal another $1135 for the crown. I went next door to my wife's dentist and priced it. He said $840 for the root canal and $875 for the crown. I gave those prices to my dentist and he matched it. I may change dentists after this but I do like the gal that cleans my teeth and the record keeping that she does on the condition of my gums etc. To top off the crown story, they were having a problem with the company that makes the crowns and I had over a two month wait with the temporary crowns before they could install the permanent ones. I complained and they sent me a $10 gift card. :eek:)
 

Total bill......... Including the emergency room visit...... Dental amounts to 2 cleaning/checkups a year and a couple of fillings over the last 10 and the root canal. Wife is German and has her own insurance w/ her employer.

Dave
 
Found out what my COBRA cost was after job ended over a year ago. $585/month. Decided I could not afford it. Went to VA, I am a vet, Found out my income was low enough so now my health care is all funded by all of you, along with the rest of the US. Once I get a job and start making money, then I have to pay the VA or get out of the program.
 
Unless everyone is required to have health insurance, pre-existing conditions will not be covered. Think of it this way. You can't buy fire insurance while your house is on fire. You can't buy hurricane insurance after a hurricane is predicted. It's called moral hazard.

The way health insurance works is every month a lot of healthy people pay in and a few unhealthy people collect. If people are allowed to wait until they have health problems before they buy insurance, then only fools would buy insurance while healthy. And without all the healthy people paying in, the unhealthy people would have to pay all the costs, which would be about the same as no insurance except with all the paperwork.
 
Politics aside.

I can think of a wide variety of things that drive up health costs. When I was a kid growing up, my parents used to pay cash, and it was hard to do with five kids, especially dental checkup day for the family, or going back to school physicals, shots, and so on. But times have changed.

I'm not saying that our U.S. health system is perfect, and far from it. I wonder though what malpractice insurance costs and what that does to raise the costs of medical. I wonder what having routine stuff now covered by health care by law costs.

If it were up to me for me, I'd be happy to pay for my tune up stuff, and have paid cash to have myself stitched up so many times that I can't count them. I wouldn't mind paying for catastrophic healthcare anymore than I have to pay for automobile insurance, but my automobile insurance doesn't cover tune ups, oil changes and stuff like that, and when it starts ahving to, especially if it ever becomes mandated by law, well, that too will go through the roof because someone will have to pay for it, and the guy using it the most will benefit the most, while the guy using it the least will be paying his premiums to offset the other guy.

Perhaps what we oughta do is breakdown the contributing factors that drive healthcare costs up in the first place, whatever they are, and all of them.

I remember years ago, decades ago when I lived in Chicago. Out of nowhere, a pack of cigarettes went from like $1.50 to something like over $2.50 or up to $3.00 per pack over night. That angered a lot of smokers and they took it out on the poor folks behind the cash register. Seeing a problem, one store owner that I remember put out a sign at the register that broke down the cost of a pack to make, what he paid for it, what his profit was, and not only how much taxes were involved, but who the taxes went to federal, state, county, and city, all broken down. About 1/3rd of the total cost went to the manufacturer and the store owner, and the other 2/3rds went in taxes. A city of Chicago inspector came in and made him take that sign down within days of putting it up. My point? Let's breakdown the costs of healthcare, or what has driven them up and why, and let the chips fall where they may, and then go from there.

Fair enough?

Mark
 
You have it wrong. US insurance companies deny coverage by renewing policies monthly. When you need care they claim it's pre existing to the renewal. They search for pre existing only after a claim. That way you'll pay premiums for twenty years without having any real insurance and taking any money you could use for healthcare.
 
Gene, with all of the talk and demigoging going on and pointing fingers at these guys and those guys...none of the finger pointers are pointing the fingers at themselves, or their personal injury lawyer friends. No, instead they are taking us like a bunch of cats tied together at the tails and tossing us over a tree limb while they stand back at a safe distance and tell us how bad we have it and that they are the solution. That part of the conversation missing from the conversation and debate is deafening to me.

Not supposed to make it political, and I won't. But I can say with all honesty, my blood is boiling, and its not at the ones I'm supposed to get all primed up for and goaded into to boiling over. I'll leave it at that.

Good night Gene, good luck, keep a low profile, and operate and work them tractors and implements safely. Grin.

Mark
 
A very good friend has a daughter who is a ear / nose/throat Dr.

Starting wage for her at the hospital was $300,000.00 plus benifits. She is indeed very smart, and always plesant, and all around a very nice gal.

She had alot invested in her education, and only a very small portion had anything to do with being a doctor--but our schools of higher education need jobs so it gets added to the pile.
 
They said one person got this money DA. I must of heard it on your daddy' show, Glen Beck.
Your daddy had a doctor on saying some of the same stupid rhetoric somebody posted here,"Every body has insurance, just go to the ER"
GB was trying to make a point of how bad England's public insurance is. His example was they denied some with cirrosis of the liver because he hadn't quit drinking for the required time. Strange that's the same as here, they're not going to give you a heart, liver lungs, etc., if you're too old, too far gone, drinking, smoking, etc.
You try to pick at me, you just don't add anything on your own.
 
""Oh, and everyone keeps badmouthing ins. companies because of pre-existing conditions. Like them or not, they are a business and need to make money. Profit is not a bad word.""

Aren't all insurance companies just a middleman, leech on the system. They pull billions off the health industry every year, where does all that money come from? Like my car insurance, the prices vary greatly for something I'm forced to buy. In our little one horse town the insurance agent makes $100K a year. Shouldn't they make $30K and everybody get cheaper premiums? There should be a minimum fed required insurance at a fixed cost and the insurance company can only offer extras to that, hey maybe like the proposed health insurance.
 
After free health care becomes a right I hope the next right we get is free auto repair. Lets face it we spent more time and money (most of us) on our cars than our doctors. After I get the right to auto repair I want the government to give me the right to a free lawyer, then a right to free housing, and a right to free vacations and big screen TV's.
 
Insurance companys dont want to insure anybody that might get sick,is over 50,is already sick.These people still go to the hospital,still get surgury,still live,but insurance companys dont pay on them.It doesnt help that insurance companys are owned by banks and probably foriegners at that who dont care about people at all only money.It all should have always been ran different,but they gave the insurance companys what they wanted,because of lobbyists,and that was wrong.Now to get paid hospitals charge the insurance companys 2 or 3 or more times what anything is worth because of their inflated malpractice and health insurance costs.It was always an insurance problem mostly,but even now nobody is saying that.Just like the banks they are going to give the insurance companys more money and that wont fix the problem.I could be wrong too.
 
Gene has a great idea , if you sue a Doctor for $500,000 and lose you should have to pay half to the Doctor [ $250,000 ] , that would cut down on the BS law suits . The Docs need to stop workin the Ins. companys to . Go in with a bad back and Ins. you ll be run trough the big money test . Same back and no Ins. and you ll be sent home with a bottle of pills and some exercises and heal up just like the guy with Ins.
 
Gee, capitalism is so unfair. Let's just have the government decide what everybody should make. How about, we just become a bigger version of CUBA. Then we'll ALL be EQUALLY POOR. How's that sound TLAK?
Jack
 
Huh? My insurance renews yearly and as long as all payments are made, it's an automatic renewal, usually with a price increase. The only time pre-existing comes into play is if I switch companies.
 
Maybe they could just send all the repugs there.
If I have TO buy it why should I be paying their agents exorbitant wages.
 
You must be an insurance person.
How bout if there already was social health care there wouldn't be anything as a pre-existing condition..Who coined the term moral hazard but an insurance company and if they weren't sucking all the money off they wouldn't have went broke when a major hurricane hit, which the tax payers paid for anyway?
The insurance company kicks the pre-existing conditions off, not for the benefit of all but for their Bottom Line.
 
Nobody is saying you have to buy it, Yet. Wait until your boys get done. Then you can complain about "Having to buy it". Send repugs to Cuba, No how about sending all the liberals, THEY are the ones always singing about how great Cuba is. Make sure you get on the first plane.
Jack
 
Is that the total bill or does Germany have a public system in which you have a deductable to pay? In effect you're just paying what would be a modest deductable in the US?

I'm jus wondering because I thought Germany was a public system... and that is an idea that's been kicked around over here at times to keep the runny noses and bruises out of the ER. The idea being that you would only go if you absolutely had to go...

Rod
 
When the gubment gets a hold of it, the only part that will be free will be proctology, they will fix your a$$.
 
"Nobody is saying you have to buy it"

The common pat, nonsense answer, you don't have to buy it.
I have to go to the doctor, grocery store, visit children, etc.. The cheapest route is to use my own car. I could probably not buy insurance since I've only been stopped once in thirty years (A-hole in Ohio, asked if they needed more of a donation since they must be hard up, but they did ask about insurance). And I have to have insurance to run up and down the road so how do you propose I not buy it?
You're probably the one with the other pat answer of "you don't have to buy gas"
 
I agree, but she was smart enough to get all the free funds, and they hand them out pretty good to the real smart kids.

She never knew her dad, mom was 14 when she gave birth. So I have no problems of her getting those dollars.

Her dad (step dad) has to laugh because she married a doctor who makes $300,000.00 also. Their home is nice but not over the top as many do. They have a old can opener that the gears are stripped, but they will not buy a new one. Her dad makes about $10,000.00 a year, so he just shakes his head. Guess what she got for x-mas?
 
Apples and oranges. You have to have auto insurance, because you may cause injury/death to another individual and or property. But, it is not manditory for you to have health insurance. It's the smart thing to do, but it is not manditory. Now, with that said, I sure as he!! don't want the government telling me what I MUST DO when it comes to my personal health. Open your eyes, do you honestly want the government calling the shots on something as important, as your healthcare? Like I said before, They are opening travel to Cuba, the socialist's paradise, Head on down, they like the way people like you think. Maybe you can be a "Czar" or something.
Jack
 
You will go to the doctor when you get sick one of these days and your insurance,if you have any,wont pay.Thats what they do all the time now,after you have paid premiums for 20 years.When that happens,and they sue you and take your house because you cant pay,will you be so pleased with the way things are now I wonder?I bet you will be fighting for a seat on the boat to Cuba before long.The mess your buddies made of our country will take 40 years to come back from.Cuba will look like a free country compared to this one by then.
 
In case you havent noticed,gubament hss already "fixed"it like it is now.Next they are really gonna fix it by doing more of the same.Watch the movie Sicko,it tells whats wrong and how much they got paid to"fix"it before.When they quit being gubament officials they gets em a job over at the health care lobbyest office for 2 million a year.Thats how they "fixes"it.
 
Actually, we are loosing our illegals. The economey is so bad that Mexico and El Salvador look like oppertunity. We have a new state budget. We just cancelled health insurance for 1.5 million children. About 100,000 prisioners are getting out of prision early, and we laid off twice that many teachers. Services eliminated, no tax increases, and we are having to learn how to step over dying people on the sidewalks. Except for the Highway Patrol trying to ballance the 26 Billion $ deficiet by writting traffic tickets there is not a government person to be seen. This place is going to be a Libertarian Paradise in a year or two.
 
Dave, your portion of your health insurance may be $150, but your employer is kicking in way more than that as part of your compensation package. I am not sure what the point of your post is. As a disabled police officer and a current fire fighter I have two health care for life promises. I know that the taxpayers are helping me big time, like they are you. No one in the US, espically if they have pre existing conditions, is buying insurance for $150 a month.
 
Some years ago, about 10 if my memory serves me correct, "loser pays all costs" came up as a possibility in an effort to slow down or end frivolous lawsuits and ambulance chasing. It was about the time that "TORT reform" started to catch on. I recall hearing back then as an example that they do that in England, so if for instance I decide to go out on a limb and sue someone, I'd better have my ducks in a row, because if I sue and lose...I'm paying the costs of everything all the way around. Makes good sense to me, but it got shot down and blown out of the water.

The reason that it got shot down and blown out of the water was that lawyers, personal injury and other argued and lobbied like mad that a poor person that had been wronged could find themselves going up against high powered big $$$ lawyers and companies with unlimited financing and lose their shirts even more so, and in that many in our nation's rotunda are themselves lawyers, personal injury and otherwise...well, you know the outcome of that one...TORT reform, particularly that part became Dead On Arrival. OK, I'm game and can see that part of their argument, but I have to wonder what the percentages are, and since the other way clearly isn't working, it can't hurt to try what Gene suggested, and you seconded. I third it.

Much good luck and success to you and yours. Work and operate that stuff safely, and don't use road gear in the fields. Grin.

Mark
 
(quoted from post at 20:07:41 07/22/09) Dave, your portion of your health insurance may be $150, but your employer is kicking in way more than that as part of your compensation package. I am not sure what the point of your post is. As a disabled police officer and a current fire fighter I have two health care for life promises. I know that the taxpayers are helping me big time, like they are you. No one in the US, espically if they have pre existing conditions, is buying insurance for $150 a month.
Click to expand...

Only thing the tax payer does for me is pay my wages. Of course the employer pays half or a percentage of coverage. If you want to find a point which I wasn't trying to make, I guess it would be the big difference in coverage cost between here and the States and the difference in wages for doctors (you don't find an ear, nose, throat specialist making 300k unless they are hooking and dealing drugs on the side). Maybe the key to lower prices is more people with insurance?? But I don't know what the answer would be to getting care prices down.
Germans are all covered, those with jobs pay a percentage of their income and a fee (10 bucks or so) for each visit and a percentage of dental work. Those without work pay nothing for 100% coverage.

The prices I quoted were total prices because I pay 100% up front cash then get reimbursed minus deductable from my insurance.

Just a question.... How can someone that is too broke to eat donuts be sound enough to fight fires???

Take Care, Dave
 
Hey, I've aready had my time in the hospital, due to a bad motorcycle wreck. My insurance through my employer paid most of the costs with the 6 surgeries I went through. What I owed, I paid for over 10 yrs. I was NEVER THREATENED, to have my house taken. They did'nt even mandate a payment amount. I paid what I could, some months, I did'nt pay anything. I reapeat, I was NEVER THREATENED. So unlike YOU, I know what I'm taking about. You talk about the mess my buddies made. Give me a break, Look at this DISASTER in the making with this clown in charge. Have a nice day.
Jack
 
No wonder you're so off the wall. You actually believe the anti-American cr*p that bloated POS puts out. Makes sense now.
Jack
 
I see your point. About the $300,000 ENT, perhaps that much is needed to pay her school loans. I would like to think it is a supply and demand thing but we all know it is not. Perhaps it would be cheaper if everyone is covered, interesting times. One thing for sure is that the current system is unsustainable. No employers want to be in the health care business. About the donuts, You ask a really good question, one I have wondered about for years. It is a question of standards. The Sheriffs Dept said I was done after my second back operation no matter how strong I was and the Fire Dept only cared about situps, pushups, running 2 miles and dragging a 180 pound dummy up the stairs and out of the house. Strange, the same County Occupational Health Doc that declaired me disabled from police work OKd me for the Fire Dept. I didn't ask about the irony.
By the way, my own doctor is from Germany. We have lots of European and Canadian doctors working in our hospitals. I have never heard of a US trained Dr. going to work in a universal health care country.
 
Maby they did it for the money, and maby they did it because thae have more avaliable resources and control over the treatment there patients get. No one is complaining about the quality of health care in the US, the issue is access and cost. By the time I need a hip replacement or heart operation I fear best health care, not the most expensive. will mean I am put out to pasture. Frankley I prefer the profit motive.
 
You arent over 50 probably or werent when you had the medical problem.YES YOUR BUDDIES THAT RAN THE GOVERNMENT CAUSED THE PROBLEMS WE HAVE NOW.Alright the clown doesnt look like he is going to fix things,but he is not the crook the last bunch was.He may even be worse,I dont know.However the last bunch made things worse,and it was already bad.If these ones improve it any it will help.Also if you had insurance that was good,you wouldnt pay for 10 years probably.So you were getting ripped off a little.Wait until you cant buy any insurance and see if they threaten you.
 
What kind of anti-American crap does he put out?I dont agree with everything he says but some of it there is no denying.Its lobbyists and it has our great country at 36 in the world and its not because of the medical care,its the rip off way its paid for.Try and figure out whats wrong before you jump to a conclusion about what you are being told so that you know.People are paid lots of money to keep it this way and so it gets worse.Been going on since the 1970s,and he has proof.Go rent the movie before you jump on me.Like they say dont kill the messenger.That anti-American statement is just plain wrong.He might be a lot of other things but he is not anti-American,and if you watched the show you would know.
 
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