new holland hydrogen tractor

i got an ad from new holland dealer talking about new holland is doing work on hydrogen powered tractor.
my question where do you get hydrogen? i'm pretty sure fs or co-op don't have it and how will it cost per gallon.

Not only is it hard to find, it's dangerous to handle because it's so flamable.
This all PR for these companies trying to look green.

You probably will have to buy a generator and make your own.

Use a wind powered generator. It will make hydrogen whenever there is a breeze. Hydrogen can be stored until needed.
Now tractors can only run a few hours on a tank, but it will get better.
Hydrogen can also be used to power milking and cooling equiptment, grain dryers etc.

Seantn

Water is 2 parts Hydrogen and 1 part Oxygen

Water is 2/3 Hydrogen

There are some videos' on the web showing a guy who converted a little Ford Ranger to use partial hydrogen. Some type of converter, uses electricty from the alternator to make it's own hydrogen. Puts in water, converts the hydrogen.
It was not running on 100% hydrogen.

The Hindenberg was filled with hydrogen, BBOOOOMMMM!

Taking the family truckster out back to the water hose then heading out would sure be cool.
Hopefully someday

Gene

Please explain how hydrogen can be stored easily.

Is no more dangerous than natural gas, propane, or gasoline.

Depending on the manufacturing process used to make it the energy equivalant bulk cost of commercial grade hydrogen varies from a bit over $5 gallon (H2 reformed from natural gas) to about $13/gallon (H2 electrolysis from water using electricity).

To this add another $1/gal or so for taxes (you think for an instant the govt's not gonna tax hydrogen fuel?!!)

Next consider in the cost of hardware necessary to store a day's worth of hydrogen onboard a tractor (thousands of $$$). Add many more thousands if you want to keep a supply of H2 on hand back at the barn.

Bottom line is the hydrogen tractor is merely a publicity stunt to keep the greenies happy. With current technology the economics of hydrogen simply are NOT there!

> Please explain how hydrogen can be stored easily.

That's the real question. Current technology makes storage pretty inefficient in just about every way. If Fiat is really working on a H2 powered tractor (not just marketing), I would guess they will take the same approach BMW has with their hydrogen 7-series car. It has a super-cooled storage tank that will store either liquid hydrogen or gaseous. It burns the hydrogen in a standard IC engine (not a fuel cell) so the car also has a separate gasoline tank which can be used instead of hydrogen.

If I had to guess at the future though, I would say that future hydrogen tanks will resemble batteries. Someone will eventually discover a solid material that has the right amount and size of pours in it to "dissolve" a high density of hydrogen gas. These bricks will be slow to charge with hydrogen and slow to release hydrogen gas and will probably be removeable for re-fueling. Trying to find this material is where most of the research work is going on right now.

i was wondering about that. another green wienie idea gone beserk.
most likely getting a pile of tax payers money.

Actually the Hindenburg burned rather than exploding so no boom.

Within the last few months I saw a television show that researches incidents and they determined that the skin coating was to blame for the rapidly spreading fire. What sparked ignition is unknown or at least I don't recall that it was given.

Yesterday Burlington Northern Santa Fe railroad unveiled a new locomotive that was built in Topeka, Kansas.

The locomotives is hydrogen powered so fits right in with this topic.

Initial testing will be done in Colorado before it is taken to California for further feasibility study.
BNSF hydrogen powered locomotive unveiled at Topeka, KS

Very simply it cannot! Rather hydrogen is an SOB to both store and to handle.

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To achieve any reasonable storage density the stuff must be pressurized to 3,000 - 5,000 psi or higher. Or it must be compressed then cooled and maintained at insanely low temperatures around -425 degF. (Incidentally both compressing and cooling processes consume a big chunk of energy themselves...)

Hydrogen gas passes through fittings and gaskets that are tight to all other compressed gases. It’ll "soak" through many cast metals. (The tubing and fittings you get at Home Depot or NAPA are no good with hydrogen!)

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I worked with the stuff many years ago at a GM plant (compressed hydrogen was used in a manufacturing process). Fire insurance stipulated compressed H2 bottle storage be on an elevated pad located at least 100’ from the nearest building. Distribution piping had to be run outdoors above the roof – inside piping was limited to vertical drops directly over the process. Multiple automatic safety shutoff and isolation valves were required - we found these items to be a constant source of leaks.

Hydrogen was a maintenance staff and insurance underwriter's nightmare.

(quoted from post at 04:48:01 06/30/09) Is no more dangerous than natural gas, propane, or gasoline.

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That's simply not true. Because of it's low molecular weight, it takes special fittings and materials to try to contain the gaseous hydrogen from leaking through normally gas tight fittings. If it's stored as a liquid, it has to be continuously vented. That means you either have to flare it off or you are one spark from igniting it. Natural gas, propane or gasoline are relatively easy to contain. Hydrogen is several orders of magnitude more difficult to deal with.

In my other life, we made a study of what it would take to supply hydrogen to aircraft for just Los Angeles International Airport. For that airport, using elctrolysis (can't use coal fired produced electricity because that generates too much CO2) it would take sixteen 500 megawatt nuclear generating plants to supply the facility with enough hydrogen to power aircraft using that one facillity at the level of operation it had in the mid-90's. And by the way, water vapor is a green house gas! So what are we saving?

Safety of the distribution system and the aircraft operations has yet to be worked out let alone how to store the fuel on the aircraft. Ever watch a space shuttle launch? And that's done what, maybe 4-6 time a year at the most, not 50 times an hour. Operating the engines was piece of cake. We demostrated that in 1956 on a 707.

When you take a systems approach and look at the whole process and infrastructure, hydrogen as common fuel to repace petroleum is going to take an enormous investment and a lot of develpment time. And I'm not just talking about aircaft. (I just used that as a for instance because I have some familiarity with it.) I really resent all these greenies acting like these technologies are right around the corner and the big, bad oil companies are holding back progress, yadda yadda, yadda. As usuall, those making the most noise, really know the least about the problems associated with these complex issues.

Google hydrogen engine they are already on the market if you can afford one. Big oil and big brother government aren't going to let you anything economical they are too stupid for that and want to keep making the towel heads rich while this country suffers.

looks like alot of folks want someone to think they know what they are talking about.
i work in a hydrogen producing plant, (electrolysis) using power from a COAL fired generator plant.
We compress it with small compressors, cool it, ( not -425, more like in the 40's) and store it easily and safely.
we make tons and tons a day and use it as fast as we can make it and have never had any safety issue with the hydrogen

"looks like alot of folks want someone to think they know what they are talking about."

here!

Come on now.Hydrogen is no harder to handle than LP gas and we have been using that system for years. There is a lot of mis-information on this site. Don't confuse even more people with your old wifes BS. Some of you guys are full of it.