EMT Pulse

Pretty off the wall question here.

If we were to experience an Electromagnetic Pulse, which as I understand it will fry most all electrical components, would that also mean batteries? And if so, how about the magneto and generator on our old tractors?

Just wondering if worse comes to worse if I can count on my H for some kind of basic transportation if all others fail.

I think it applies to transistors, semi-conductors,printed circuits and such.Can an EM pulse be generated without a nuclear explosion?

No, your old tractors are okay, as are tube type radios. It is only a concern on solid state devices. If you have an older car or truck with a points ignition, it should operate also.

I have heard that there are devices that create an EMP only, without nuclear detonation. And they used one in "Oceans 12" in Las Vegas.

Just noticed I began this post with EMT instead of EMP.

i believe the magneto is almost all mechanical.... so it should be fine.

But i could be wrong. idk....

Yes, EMP can be generated w/o a nuke but there are limits. Mostly the dispersal of the pulse. Nuke weapon has the dispersal energy to send the pulse greater distances whereas conventional/chemical weapons do not. Apparently EMP can also be generated via land and ship based generators.

What about batteries?

Funny thing is the EPA pushes all of this electronic crap on us civilians so 99.9% of the population would be out of comission (possibly with no deaths)should a terriorist ever decide to utilize an EMP pulse against us. Hopefully with this threat in mind the military is smart enough to harden ALL of their electronics. I know several years back they had a number or pieces of older (pre-electronic) heavy equipment factory refurbished simply because they didn't have all the electronics prevailant in the newer stuff. The newest vehicle I've got is an '88 Camaro so a pulse would kill it but my old J10 Jeep will take me anywhere I need to go.

No problem with batteries.

A lightning strike produces a far more powerful EMP at any specific site than any atmospheric atom bomb detonation can. Except perhaps for Dr Strangloves Doomsday Machine. It is common for lightning to hit a car (or airplane for that matter)and neither the radios, engine electronics or cell phones get damaged. To protect vulnerable equipment they build metal boxes around them, they are called Faraday cages. Vehical bodies make excellent Faraday cages. Ever notice when you go into some metal buildings the cell phone won't work, that is because it can't recieve the radio signal, also known as a EMP. Electronic communications as we know it may be over but the car should start. Don't know about plastic body cars like Vetts.

I don"t think that I will be worrying about my old tractors running if there is a nuclear explosion close enough to cause an EMP. Put your head between your legs and kiss your **s goodbye cause it"s all over anyway..

Depends how you build the warhead.The type and amount of yield can be tuned.
A high altitude nuclear blast can leave civilians out in the open relatively unscathed. A couple days worth of sun tan and "welding flash" to the eyes.
It would be the 1st strike to soften a target area for a conventional attack. Or threats of economic blackmail.
As previously stated unshielded solid state circuits will short/burn through the insulation due to the high voltage spike.

A lot of smarter and more educated people than me disagree with your assesment of the potential danger from an EMP attack. Additionally, our government is spending large sums of $ and brainpower to assess the threat and how to protect us from it.

This link will take you to a page with numerous quotes from varying sources, from scientists at prestigeous intitutes to government comissions formed to study such threats.

I'm not freaking out over it, just wondering about what I/we might be able to do if such a thing were to occur. But it would seem that a weapon designed to use EMP is quite a bit more powerful than any random lightning bolt.

Another http://sonic.net/~doretk/Issues/00-03-SPR/theblack.html
EMP

Not true. EMP travels much further than blast and immediate radioactivity.

Nothing electrical/electronic could withstand a strong enough pulse, even a battery.
However by the time the warhead was close enough to pulse damage a battery. The battery case would be melting. So yes you are correct. Don't worry about batteries.

I got my information from the guy across the street. He is a retired PhD Physicists that spent 33 years desigining weapons at Lawerence Livermore and Los Almos National Labs. We have talked aboout this several times. He always plames EMT when he can't get is 1956 Harley to run. He says the EMP threat is to satelites. He indicated that weapon would have to be detonated out of the earths atmosphere to be effective against satelights. Most of the radio waves, or EMP would not make it through the atmosphere with much energy at all. Of course a weapon designed for EMP is more powerful than a lightning strice. But the energy produced from such a weapon, both mechanical and electric, dissapates rabidly, Except for the electrical impulse in outer space. So yes, a lightning strike on a car on the earth will recieve a much larger EMP hit than some physics package bang miles up on the other side of the atmosphere.

Pretty sure it just fries computerized stuff. Our old gasser Oliver 1600 and MF 165 would run fine, as well as our Deisel Oliver 1855 and MF 285.

I'd be fine. My car would be screwed, but atleast I could farm.

Donovan from Wisconsin

Before the atmospheric test ban treaty was adopted, the US detonated 2 or 3 warheads in space to test the effects of EMP. The missiles were launched from the test range at Eniteowok, or Kwalinjin (spelling may not be correct)and detonated above the atmosphere, one detonation caused power disruptions lasting several hours in Honolulu, and the other Hawaiian Islands, as well as pulsing light effects similar to the "Northern Lights".
I suspect that the devices used were in the low to mid kiloton range.
These shots were recorded and are now declassified, and available on DVD. The impressive one is of a 5 MEGATON underground test in the Alutian (sp?) Island chain of Alaska.

Fiber optic cables basicly immune from EMP, initial developement was for/from research in "hardening" defense installations from EMP that would disrupt copper wire communications. Unshielded solid state electronics at risk, old points and condensor ignitions minimal risk or easy replacement of condensor. Older diesels minimal risk, newer electronic timed injector rigs at higher risk- it is the small computer controls that are weak point. Old IHC 560 diesel tractor minimal at risk. RN

the cables may be immune but the "nodes" (multiplexers) that digitaze signal and transmit it are dead as dead can be, so fiber optics are useless. It has been estimated that if an EMP were detonated above our continent, within 30 days, 90 percent of the population will perish. Now let me ask all you good liberals buying into bho's rubbish...is it a good idea to allow rouge regimes like iran posess nukes????

WRONG. nothing magnetic would operate. The entire magnetic field would be disrupted. The thing might run till battery dies, then with no generator, no alternator, no commercial power to run a battery charger, nothing will run. 90 percent of the populace DIE WITHIN 30 DAYS...

no wat to keep food cool, no way to communicate, no way to get info, no way to travel, no way to keep warm/cool,

THIS IS SERIOUS and I understand that iran could have as many as 4 retired USSR subs that are off our coast now. I am telling you bho is making us weak and we are a (toothless) paper tiger.

"WRONG. nothing magnetic would operate. The entire magnetic field would be disrupted. The thing might run till battery dies, then with no generator, no alternator, no commercial power to run a battery charger, nothing will run."

I have mags that I could bolt on my old Farmalls and they all have cranks so starting wouldn't be a problem. They would run until the fuel barrel runs dry. I have several old wood stoves so keeping warm is not a problem. I can grow or kill my own food. I have plenty of ammunition to shoot the city people trying to steal from me. Heck how did humans survive for thousands if not millions of years without electronics. Electronics have only been around less than a hundred years.

I understood that the copper windings in a starter would fry too. So I vote for an old diesel--if you can find a way to crank it. Park it on a steep hill and slip the cluth in road gear?

how does a MAGNETO work...IT WOULD NOT.

You sound self sufficient but 90 percent of the population is not. Thus the estimates I have heard.

It will make the zombies get agitated and they will eat you and the tractor.Sure some think they may have enough ammo for a short while but there will be too many coming out of the inner cities and you have to blow the head right off or they can still get you.Best bet is to hide in a shopping mall with a gun store or ride around on a Harley with a sidecar.

thinking more, nothing would run except a 100% mechanical diesel. no solenoids, no coils etc. start it how??? I would be IN THE SAME BOAT AS YOU, trying to protect my family and myself. It would be BAD, i don't want it. Read more on it from experts, don't listen to me.

So, you are saying, that in the last 120 or so days,since this guy becam pres, the Iranians obtained 4 old Russian subs, the rockets and warehads, trained crews, sailed them to our coasts and the US Navy can't find them ? The last commander in chief was not asleep at the wheel and it is the current ones fault ?

(quoted from post at 21:40:40 06/15/09) WRONG. nothing magnetic would operate. The entire magnetic field would be disrupted. The thing might run till battery dies, then with no generator, no alternator, no commercial power to run a battery charger, nothing will run. 90 percent of the populace DIE WITHIN 30 DAYS...

no wat to keep food cool, no way to communicate, no way to get info, no way to travel, no way to keep warm/cool,

THIS IS SERIOUS and I understand that iran could have as many as 4 retired USSR subs that are off our coast now. I am telling you bho is making us weak and we are a (toothless) paper tiger.

Click to expand...

OMG! The SKY is FALLING! Only 5 months in office and the entire US MILITARY IS TOOTHLESS! AAAAAaaaaaa........

Even worse, given a complete magnetic failure, the north and south poles will not work any more. If so, I predict dire consequences.

Watched a documentary a few months back that said the poles have reversed themselves thousands of times over Earth's lifetime. Apparently the feild gets weaker and weaker, then the reversal and the field is back to full stregnth. Thought that was very interesting.

Not to worry. 98% of the population can't do more than find due magnetic north with a compass.
They can't even read road maps, they need a gps mommy to tell them were to turn.

You might want to think about this however-Plateaus are caused by ice fields floating on top of water grinding the top of mountains off.Now from Texas to Wyoming and farther are plenty of them.That means that those areas were under ice not all that long ago.You see when the magnetic poles switch sometimes the Earth rolls a quarter turn as well.This causes 300 mph winds that blew everything that men had built off of the surface of the Earth in the area of the winds and they went completely around the Earth according to the American Indians story.The Mammoths frozen with green leaves in their mouths and stomachs.Think about it.Also Alaska was a swamp,there is lush vegetation under the permafrost,frozen green,lush,swamp vegetation.

Way before you worry about Iran you need to think about this-what has the power to turn the Earth,or to pull the magnetic center from the planet Mars,or to knock a chunk off of the Earth big enough to make the moon,or is the moon a planet captured by Earths gravity?Well since the 1800s people that translate writing dug up all over the world have interpreted what the Sumerians wrote.Seems a little strange that after the Sumerians were here that we were able to write,make iron,lots of things.Sumerians knew about the planets of the solar system,had descriptions of planets we did not even know about until the 1970s and 1980s.Sumerians probably came here from another planet,the one that passes Earth close enough to knock a chunk out Billions of years ago to form the moon,the one that comes by every 6 or 7 thousand years and at least rolls the Earth some causing civilizations to disappear and Mammouths to die with green leaves still in their mouths in the Artic where they were in a tropical area minutes before.Also worldwide flooding occurred at least once.

Yeah we need a strong military.Yeah its not good for Iran or North Korea or some others to have nuclear weapons.You should know our military is way better and stronger than theirs,but we shouldnt ignore them if they are acting crazy and have nuclear weapons.If they did a EMT pulse attack on us we have nuclear subs some where that will be able to annihilate them.Only an idiot would do that to us then get turned into a ball of fire by us,so if they killed 90% of us 100% of them would be dead.Not all that smart.

The thing to worry about if you need to worry is this-a planet comes in our orbit and drags big pieces of debris into our area.A big chunk gets pulled in by our gravity and hits the earth.This could set the atmosphere on fire and burn up all the oxygen,it could knock the Earth out of its orbit,it could destroy all life as we know it on Earth now.Hmmm,scary but sounds kinda like some stuff in the book of Revelations doesnt it?

That should be EMP attack.

As far as that goes,old Cummins diesel engines had a manual setting on the fuel solenoid.If you screw the manual on and push or pull the truck it will fire up and run with no electricity at all.Other diesels could too,and fuel could be pumped out of storage tanks with a hand pump and then you could have transportation.Lots of people,troops,guns,other stuff would fit on a 53 foot reefer trailer.After the EMP is over why not get a bunch of diesel locomotives fired up and hook them up to the electric grid,or ships on the coast to have electricity.I find it hard to believe that after the EMP that nothing electric will ever work again.I think thats kind of stupid,the EMP is so we cant launch our missiles while they attack us with theirs.After the pulse is over I think electric devises will work.Lots of food is stored in man made caves.Also these have huge diesel generators attached to them in case of power failure.Would a generator work if it wasnt running when the EMP pulse went off?Anyway all that food is going to last a while,plus there will be guns and deer,elk,cattle,hogs,about everything you can think of to eat,so I dont see why 90% of us would be dead in 30 days.Might be true but I doubt it.In 30 days a lot more Americans will be alive than Iranians I think.Maybe we would lose 40% of the people in 30 days.I doubt that it would even be that many over a EMP attack if thats all they were able to do.The rest of us would be mad and the 40% wouldnt be missed as far as attacking another country is concerned.The other country needs to worry about that 3% in the military that are mad and guns still work.There are such things as solid rockets that could carry war heads and if dynamite can light it,it might not be safe for them even if nothing works electrically.If they only have 4 missiles,and EMP attack us,in a matter of hours nuclear subs and ships there werent affected and planes from other parts of the world will be blowing them off of the face of the Earth and they wont even be able to fight back very much.I think conventional warfare wont even be an option if they did attack us like that.It will be the end for them.

I think the government should get the DNA from some of those frozen Mammoths and clone them. The embryo could be planted in an elephant. Everything would work out great.

EMP--not unlike lightning travels along and on the surface of conductors it strikes..for example when lightning hits an aircraft it hits and travels along the outer aircraft skin until it travels the length of the aircraft and continues back into the atmosphere. When was the last time you heard of anyone inside an aircraft stuck by lighting being injured? That being said, if your battery, tractor, etc had an outer conducting skin with no penitrations for the EMP to enter, the "stuff inside" would be protected from EMP damage...so if you want to protect your stuff, one way would be to totaly enclose it in sheet metal, or a cheaper method would be to wrap it with reynolds wrap (tin foil)..and while your at it, just to be safe, line your hard hat, gonads and anything else that is of value that you may wish to protect from EMP and lighting strikes! don"t think EMP will damage anything in long neck bottles, so ur brewski"s should be safe! don"t know if it will set off your hunten bullets, so better wrap them in foil!

Hey Don,

I was asking an innocent question that I'd been pondering for some time, not that I expect it to happen, but more curious than anything.

Your response would seem to be quite cynical, as is often typical of you on the Left coast who think you are so much more enlightened than the rest of us. We don't appreciate your denigating attitude or snobbish remarks concerning our way of life here in the heartland.

Your reference to "long neck bottles", "brewskis", (which didn't require an apostrophe), and "hunten bullets" was crass and disrespectful. Is that how you demonstrate your higher state of enlightenment? Does it make you feel superior in some way to make light of others in such a derogatory way?

Why do visit this site if you hold those who work so hard to provide this country, and much of the world, with the foodstuffs that sustain us all? Yes, some of the responses to this post were a bit off the wall, but that doesn't excuse your disrespectful rant and hurtful words.

I don't know what parents teach their children out there, (or sadly, maybe I do), but mine taught me that the definition of a gentleperson is one that makes others feel comfortable at all times, regardless of their status in life, education, or any other measure.

Perhaps in the future you might be more considerate of others, but I feel you probably won't. You don't seem to care how what you say affects others.

But DON'T let the invading biker hoard see you shooting at them, or da**it flyboy, now we got ourselves a war................

Most of the atmospheric test happened before the 1962 Test Ban were at the ATS near Los Vegas. The power never went out, the cars didn't fail. Nor did the tests effect Honolulu by shutting off the lights or making the cars quit. There is simply nothing to the idea that EMP from an atmospheric explosion will fry things on the earth.

Plenty of damage can be done without a nuke involved.
EPFCG

I just have to do it...
EMT pulse: Emergency Medical Technician Pulse...
yes, most if not all are trained to correctly take a pulse...
and if they don't have one themselves, they can do no one else any good...
Okay, I hope I'm not banned now...but...

The EMP thing I've been wondering about, and thinkin' about older pre-computer diesel vs. older points gas-burner--but, to push start either one, I believe the diesel would go, whereas the coil in a conventional points system may fail, if the EMP weapon hit hard enough...but as was said, if that was the case, you probably wouldn't be tryin' to start any vehicle, you'd be to busy kissin' your b*** goodbye...

I'll quit now, don't know an honest answer to it...beyond my area of expertise :lol:

If you look down a few posts, you'll see that I caught that right away.