Hi Folks,

My family has 52 acres of partial forested land near Waco, TX, and about 5-7 acres need (or should) mowing. Since I'm now responsible for upkeep and possible sale down the road, I've been shopping around for a tractor (my first).

I found a '52 8N in decent shape yesterday. The rear tires need to be replaced (either new or used) and it will some minor adjustments. After inspecting it I made a verbal offer which was accepted. Even if I went with new tires and were to sell it later, I will still be in the black. I'm due to pay for it and pick it up this week.

The guy facilitating the sale is doing so on behalf of a woman going through a divorce so he"s not the true owner. While I think he's an honest individual, given the prevalence of scammers these days, it"s better to be safe than sorry. When I made the offer, it was at the end of a long day so it didn't occur to me at that moment to ask what kind of ownership documentation is the norm for a 57yo tractor.

Can someone enlighten me as to what kind I documents I should get or have to prove ownership? What's the norm?

Thanks.

-Bill
Dallas, TX

Bill of sale........

NOTARIZED bill of sale.

Far as Im aware, and here in Indiana, theres no formal certificates of title or other governmenatal agency registration etc, (such as for automobiles) for personal property such as a farm tractor. BUT IF YOUR STATE HAS SUCH, GO BY IT, NOT WHAT I OR ANY LAY PERSON ON HERE CLAIMS!!!!!!!!!!!!

That being said, I would want AT A MINIMUM a signed and written "Bill of Sale" documenting and memorializing such things as: The date and location of sale,,,Seller and Buyer,,,,Sales Price,,,,Receipt and form of payment,,,,,,good description of the item such as Make, Model, Year (if known), and Serial Number, and other relevant information you have access to etc.

Gotta love the Old Wives Tales "Posession is 9/10 of the Law", while in reality thats often quite true. There are laws to protect to some degree a "Buyer in Good Faith" what you will be if (in good faith and FOR VALUE) you rely on the Seller's representations and purchase the tractor. You then, armed with a good faith Bill of Sale and posession, have a good claim of ownership as a "peaceful posessor", which is superior to all those other then any "true owner" who may jump out of the woodwork claiming superior title and can prove the tractor was lawfully his but was stolen from him. If such were the case, the law would award him posession and your action (as a buyer for value and in good faith) would be against the seller who possilby has a similar action against the person he purchased it from...

Get a Bill of Sale

best wishes

John T Country Lawyer in Indiana

Bill, if a guy on a street corner was facilitating the sale of a big screen tv for walmart would you buy it?

Get with the ACTUAL owner and get her to sign a bill of sale.

"woman going through a divorce" scares me. I would make sure she even has the right to sell it or is she doing so behind her X's back.

A bill of sale where the woman and X BOTH signed off on it would satisfy me.
I do not think Texas has a title on tractors.

There is no titles for farm eqpt. in WV . Check with some one at SMV in your State. Here I would want a Singed Bill-of-sale With owners name, Modle of tractor & Seril # on it . Notarized If possible. I know of some tractors that been Confscated by State Police Because the Owner could not produce a bill of sale. Even though they weren't on a stolen list, They were neaver returned to owner, were sold at public auction.

Now on the tractor you are buying more than
likely there isnt a UBC filing.

A "UBC" Uniform Business Code, filing is a lean
that has been filed by some sort of lender. These
are usually filed by Banks, and USDA farm lenders.
But it could be anyone. Check with your secretary of your state to see with who these are filed. Now on a low value machine such as this there probably isnt one. But buying high value equipment you should do a "UBC" lean search.

Hi Bill, first I have to agree with the others!. Second I'd be looking for something more in the Hundred Series, 600 or 800 It's 10 times the tractor than an 8N....just my two cents...Jim in N M

Bill, Texas as you may know is a "Community Property State". Until the divorce is final, she has as much Right to sell as he has. Now, depending on what has been worked out by the attorneys, and the Judge, this may be an item that must go through the court before being sold. It depends on how big their estate is, and several other items, including if there is one or more businesses. Best thing to do, is to talk to the actual owner of the tractor, in this case at this point it appears to be the wife. If it is not in her possession on the property on which she resides, do not go for it. Also, in addition to getting a Bill of Sale (notarized as suggested), make sure it is the woman who has the assumed Rights to it, and not the "Broker". When the time comes to pay and pick up (don"t pay until you go to get it), make sure you have a Sheriff"s Deputy, Constable, or Deputy Constable present to verify what is taking place, and to ward off any trouble in case the soon to be ex-husband arrives. City Police Officers even inside the City do not usually deal with these situations, as they are considered civil actions, and that is enforced and investigated by the Sheriff, or Constable. I would also ask to see any papers for the divorce which have the tractor listed. The Deputy or Constable can run the numbers to see if the tractor has ever been reported as stolen. If all is on the up and up, the seller(s) should not mind providing the info, and allowing you or Law Enforcement to view the papers. Also, in Texas notoraziton only verifies that the person signing is in fact the person they say they are, and not someone impersonating another. I don't think it is a scam, but there are a few things that could back fire. The information I have provided comes from having been a Texas Peace Officer for over 22 years, and having served at one point with an agency in McLennan County. I'm not considered as "expert" as an attorney, but we have to have a very good knowledge to be in the field. Never even wanted to be an attorney, but have dealt with many...

if there is any possibility that in the future there will be more than 5-7 acres to be mowed, i, for one, would look for a real tractor. not some 50+ year old money pit. maybe look for something made in the 90's. modern enough for easy service and parts availablity. it will cost more, but in the long run it would be way ahead of messing with old junk. any big name like Ford-New Holland, John Deere, Kubota, Case-IH. all are popular. something on the order of 45-50 hp would handle 6-8 ft cutters and make mowing a lot easier.

Ideally, find out who the attorneys for both parties are, and call both to see if she is entitled to sell.

More ideally, keep shopping. Both from the ownership standpoint, and from the merchandise standpoint.

RUN! Shop elsewhere.

AS Thurlow stated: "Bill of Sale". Have the serial number on the bill of sale too. If you want to go a step further, ask the local Sheriff to run a check on the serial number. Do you know where the serial number is on an N?

Get something bigger. The 8N is a toy compared to even today"s compact tractors. I would look at maybe a T1520 (TC30). This is a simple tractor with more horse power and a diesel engine. Plus, most of these will be 4wd. You can also add a loader to this tractor and it would be much more versatile.

I get a bill of sale and take it home. I doubt they will find you even if the X wife was selling the tractor to spite the husband.

In some states you can register anything you own that has a serial # with the Secretary of State or some other Dept.

The serial number would be on the left side of the engine to the rear of the oil filter housing near the top of the block. One concern would be if a reman or just another engine is installed, the serial number would not be correct anymore. Or, if a different engine is installed and the original numbers are ground off to stamp the correct numbers in, it could look bad in the eyes of law enforcement like you're trying to cover something up. I think I would forget this one and look for something else. If you're stuck on Ford, an NAA or hundred series would be more user friendly. If they need rear tires, be sure to price replacements. New rear tires get expensive fast! I spent $450 ea for 16.9-28 Goodyears for a D17 Allis.

I was also going to add, whatever you get if from a private owner, get a bill of sale signed and dated by the seller, buyer, and bring a couple buddies and have them sign as witnesses. You just never know these days.
To make a long story short, I bought a 4 wheeler from a guy who bought, sold and fixed them up as a hobby to re sell. I bought one off him that had been abandoned by the owner because of the amount it was going to cost to fix. It ended up needing a complete engine rebuild which I did. The previous owner recognized it one day and wanted it back now that it was running. Of course I said no and when the cops showed up I showed them that I had a bill of sale, then I produced a pile of receipts from all of the parts I had put in it. The end was the Sheriff told him he'd have to pay me for the repairs I did since I bought it in good faith from the guy he had left it with nearly a year before. I still have the 4 wheeler today.

I wouldn't get a Ford 8N or 9N for mowing that much acreage. They don't have a live PTO to run the mower. I would go with something newer than one of those Fords.

These model Fords were very popular 20 years ago for collecting and using but newer tractors have over ridden them like all other machinery as in performance and power and user friendliness. You can find a newer tractor with more HP for a little bit more money.

But this is just me. I drove a 8N when I was 18 years old and I told my self that I would never own one. The newer tractors have a higher GPM hydraulic pump for use with newer implements.

If you have 5 acres to mow or 50 acres, either way when you get started you will want to finish and with the Ford you'll take a while.

It's your decision but shop around and don't buy the first tractor you come across.

Yeah, find both attorneys, then shoot them.

Gene

Just think when the tractors were new they did the job. Since you have already done the deal I would stick with it. A little bigger tractor would have been better. My tractor I use for discing was made in the 30's. I put a lot of hours on it each season, don't let the age bother you if it is in good shape. Your tractor should pull a 5 ft mower if the grass isn't too thick, if so take a smaller cut. Like others have said it doesn't have it's own clutch, and keeps the tractor moving a little after the clutch is depressed. I used a T0 20 which had thesame problem. It is more noticable in tight corners, just stop a little sooner. Of all the tractors I have purchased in the past I have never obtained any paper work. But it would be good to get a bill of sale. Stan

Bought two horses a few years back.Ladey ? said they belonged to her.I got a bill of sale had my canceled check.6 months later a cop and a 70 year old man pulling a trailer showed up at my house.To make a long storey short the woman had stolen the horse.

Let state law be your guide. Ultimately, you can do a search for leins against the title and a search for stolen property. Here at least you check leins with the secretary of state and the stolen property list with the sheriff. But, if someone else can prove ownership its still your loss. Remember though, posession is 9/10ths of ownership.

Ah, yes, Gene, always the high road, right? I straighten out 2 or 3 real estate deals a year, that the lawyer-haters did on the hood of the pickup (with predictable results). They saved a couple hundred dollars at the time, now costs 5 times that to fix. Brings to mind an old saying from the '70's, when all the cops were "pigs"- "Next time you're being mugged, call a hippie!"

Hi Guys,

I want to thank you all for the valuable feedback. I read each comment and then thought it through.....and bought it anyway!! I picked it up about 3 hours ago, got my bill of sale and hauled it home.

The guy had the Ford Shop manual, the Operators manual, and the Bush Hogger's receipt and brochure all from the owner. Apparently the husband got the house (and may have lost it in the recent forclosures (it was nice, empty, uncared for and forlorn)) and the wife got all the equipment. The divorce had already been consummated and they've moved on.

The rear tires held air on the ground long enough to drive it up on the trailer but did not survive the 40mi ride home. Too much bouncing around so they were DOA and clearly beyond salvage. I will now be on the search for either good used ones or I might just go for new ones to support it's resale down the line if that proves to be necessary.

The twin rotary Bush Hogger is a '97 vintage four wheeled "Air Tunnel & Flat Deck Turf Hog" which is plenty good for what I need it for. It was $1580 new. Total cost for tractor and hogger was $1400 and a half tank of gas!

All in all, I think I lucked out on this one.

-Bill
Dallas, TX

Here she is!

http://s481.photobucket.com/albums/rr178/bldfw/Ford 8N Tractor/?albumview=slideshow