Just got back from vacation. went from southern kansas to Custer Park SD. Saw the Heads at MT Rushmore (everybody should go there really gives the pride factor a good boost). Got back and heard the goofballs talking about the new gas regs for cars. The thing i don't understand is i drove a 1994 honda accord (leather seats, sunroof a/c, room for five) with 290,000 milers on it and averaged just under 34 miles per gallon. I don't understand why the manufacturers don't just putthe cars out like they use to and quit whining!
- Thread starter ddl
- Start date
Richard from SE AZ
Member
It's the goverments own fault that our cars get such poor gas milage. All the emission controls mandated be put on cars has killed gas milage. I live in a place where emission testing is not required. I bought a 1990 4X4 Dodge in Wisconsin new and drove it for 260 thousand miles. When I had it rebuilt(in my nephews shop) I asked him to take off everything that the truck didn't need to run. My Dodge went from 16 mpg to 24 mpg.
I drive a MADE IN AMERICA old 1995 140,000 miles Saturn with a 4 cylinder fuel injected single overhead cam engine, automatic and air that gets like 35 MPG on the highway, why am I supposed to got out n spend over $20K to get a Hybrid that dont get all that much more or even a conventional that gets about the same MPG??? Because the Sierra Club or the environmental extremists or radical left or King O Bama thinks so SORRY I THINK NOTTTTTTTTTT n they can kiss my grits..........
John T
John T
Standard U
Member
I dont understand it either when i bought my 81 dodge ram slant six it had that stupid computer(early emissions high tech junk)on it and so before i registered it i took all the computer, smog cans and air pump emissions off it. It gets about 17-20 mpg now depending on how i drive it.
TripleRange
Member
Sorry buddy, but that '94 Honda would fail today's emissions standards set by the EPA and approved by congress....probably by a lot too. But on the flip side....if they sold more hybrids perhaps the manufacturing cost would go down a little due to higher quantity per tooling. Question is, why are there a lot of tooling differences between the two?
Steve in IN
Member
I found a magazine from 1981, while cleaning out our house to move. (We moved into that house in 1998, go figure.) Anyway, it had an ad for the Pontiac lemans sedan in it. 38 mpg.
And nothing has touched those geo metros sold back in the 90s. Non hybrid cars getting over 50 mpg from the factory.
And nothing has touched those geo metros sold back in the 90s. Non hybrid cars getting over 50 mpg from the factory.
The Gov. has the American auto companies right in their hip pocket. I just wonder how long it will be before the states make the emission standards much tougher on the older vehicles we are still driving around. Forcing us to buy these "green" crap boxes they are pushing us into. And you just know, with the cars getting better mileage, the states are going to start crying about lost revenues from the gas taxes, which WILL be raised to make up for the loss.
This, combined with the soon to be passed "Cap+Trade" legislation, which will about double our electric bills, and make $4.00 gas look like a bargain. We are going to see our whole standard of living go way down. This is'nt about global warming, it's about MORE government control, and more of our money taken away for THEM to pi$$ away as THEY see fit. They got us now, when you see the big corporations lining up with the government, this country as we know it is finished. This does'nt come as a suprise to me. The man said what he wanted to do, and know he's doing it.
Jack
This, combined with the soon to be passed "Cap+Trade" legislation, which will about double our electric bills, and make $4.00 gas look like a bargain. We are going to see our whole standard of living go way down. This is'nt about global warming, it's about MORE government control, and more of our money taken away for THEM to pi$$ away as THEY see fit. They got us now, when you see the big corporations lining up with the government, this country as we know it is finished. This does'nt come as a suprise to me. The man said what he wanted to do, and know he's doing it.
Jack
Stephen in SoKY
Member
I was in Paris about 4 years ago & saw the Smart Car for the very first time. Thought it was very unique & struck up a conversation about with it's driver. After we converted liters to gallons and meters to miles he was getting way over 50 & almost 60 mpg in the city of Paris. Last year they introduce the little fellows here in the U.S. I immediately check into them, you guessed it, something like 30 on the hwy & 28 in town. Seems to me we've got to be more realistic about emissions control. I'm not saying abandon it, just be realistic about it. Never happen with the nnalert though, it's all or nothing.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
In 1974 my Dad loaded 1000 lbs of baling wire in his 71 toyota HiLux and took it from Sidney Neb to Norton Kansas and got 30 and a touch mpg.
He loved that little truck.
He loved that little truck.
ddl....be careful of a knock on your door....your Honda will not meet the emissions standards being promulgated. Soon the green thugs will ask you to turn your Honda in for the Cash for Clunker Program.....if you don't, they will be coming to pry the steering wheel from your cold dead fingers.
just another old geezer
Member
it's a chase your tail sort of thing. while they are cleaning up some emissions, you need more fuel to go the same amount of miles. And that, guess what, puts more polutiants into the air. it you reduce the amount of emissions by half and cut your fuel econnomy by half you have gained nothing.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
I have a neighbor who has two of the smart cars. One is a few years? (2-3)old. It gets better mileage by far than the new one. I think the old one is diesel and the new one is gas (maybe vice-versa) but they would like to sell the new one.
Electric bills? Think of what cap & trade will do to food prices.
Do you have any idea how diesel fuel, transportation costs, fertilizer, and so on costs will be affected by cap & trade?????
Add in the dust controls that EPA will mandate - how that will owrk is beyond me, but it's coming anyhow, govt does not care, they said it will apply to ag too.
There are gonna be food riots, until we can import enough food from Brazil & China....
--->Paul
Do you have any idea how diesel fuel, transportation costs, fertilizer, and so on costs will be affected by cap & trade?????
Add in the dust controls that EPA will mandate - how that will owrk is beyond me, but it's coming anyhow, govt does not care, they said it will apply to ag too.
There are gonna be food riots, until we can import enough food from Brazil & China....
--->Paul
Yes, I fully understand whats going to happen. I just listed a couple of examples. We, the American people are being LIED to. We used to have an honest press that would investigate and report these kinds of things. But no more, the press today is more in the mold of Pravda, The infamous Soviet propaganda news?paper.
Eventually, people are going to wake up, But undoing the damage is not going to be easy once the government gets used to that extra money they are going to bleed out of us.
Jack
Eventually, people are going to wake up, But undoing the damage is not going to be easy once the government gets used to that extra money they are going to bleed out of us.
Jack
TripleRange
Member
Perhaps it's the same with electric cars....burn more fuel trying to create electricity so you can convert it back to kinetic energy. Maybe it's more efficient the way we have it now...burn the fuel straight to creating kinetic energy. Never heard much about that kind of study.
Another Bill
Member
Unfortunately no one in the Gov't cares about how long your old vehicle has lasted, how well it performs, if it was USA made, what kind of mileage it gets compared to a new one, etc etc...
All that is of concern to them is money; money in their own pockets. No concern about *your* money, and how much it will end up costing you for these new changes and the resulting impact they will have.
I'll never believe all these radical changes don't equate to money in Gov't officials' pockets from all kinds of kickbacks and payoffs. These officials will never feel the financial drain these changes will put on everyone else. They will have received such huge payoffs and kickbacks that any resulting transportation costs, food costs, etc will be negligible to them.
I think it's awful what has been going on in our nation these past 6 months or so. I pray there will be favorable changes soon.
All that is of concern to them is money; money in their own pockets. No concern about *your* money, and how much it will end up costing you for these new changes and the resulting impact they will have.
I'll never believe all these radical changes don't equate to money in Gov't officials' pockets from all kinds of kickbacks and payoffs. These officials will never feel the financial drain these changes will put on everyone else. They will have received such huge payoffs and kickbacks that any resulting transportation costs, food costs, etc will be negligible to them.
I think it's awful what has been going on in our nation these past 6 months or so. I pray there will be favorable changes soon.
cornfarmer
Member
and a case of duct tape!!!
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
your old car makes some great milage but cant meet todays or tomorrows emission standards and thats the rub...... make milage but meet ever tighting goverment emission standards.
its a EPA thing.
its a EPA thing.
The important thing is that the public will buy this as an answer to non-existent Global Warming. It"s nothing more than a control and money grab by the best shysters in the business- Good old Chicago nnalert. Of course there are surely some GOP guys taking part in it too since there"s money to be made.
And the sheeple will follow along blindly as long as they have American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, foot ball and NASCAR. Morons!
And the sheeple will follow along blindly as long as they have American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, foot ball and NASCAR. Morons!
I took my drivers license test in a 1962 Chrysler 300 that had a 413 V8 with twin Carter 4 barrels, solid lifters and dual point ignition...all factory equipment. If you kept your foot out of it...that tank would get 17 mpg. If you put your foot in it, it would slam the speedo needle to the right and out of sight......and the gas gauge to the left almost as fast. I don"t know how fast it would go....but it was registered to 120 and it took a good while for the speedo needle to come back into sight after you shut it down...hehe!
Have any of you youngsters ever heard the scream of two four barrel carbs feeding a big block Chrysler engine at full throttle? Damn near magic!
Have any of you youngsters ever heard the scream of two four barrel carbs feeding a big block Chrysler engine at full throttle? Damn near magic!
Too Far Gone
Member
Thats only 10 rolls or so if You've ever lifted a roll of baling wire.They're heavy
Ed in Northern VA
Member
Sure hope your right about global warming. Lot of ice melting in a lot of differnet parts of the world.
Its not a bad idea to conserve resources, plus the less money we send to the Middle East, the better.
Its not a bad idea to conserve resources, plus the less money we send to the Middle East, the better.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
The reason the manufacturer's don't "put out cars like they used to" is that they're putting out BETTER cars than they used to. For the past 40 years I've been listening to guys say "these cars today aren't as good as what they made in the 50s/60s/70s/80s (and now the) 90s." If the manufacturers paid any attention to that nonsense we would all be driving '63 Ford Falcons. (Not that I have anything against '63 Falcons, but that wouldn't be my first choice if I were shopping for a car.)
Let's take your '94 Accord, since that's the example you use. I think it's a credit to Honda engineering and quality control, as well as your own maintenance, that this car is still going strong after 14 years and almost 300,000 miles. But does it really get better gas mileage than a new Accord? It's easy to check it out: Go to the EPA website; they still post the mileage specs for 1994 model year vehicles:
1994 Accord, 2.2L, auto: 20 mpg city/27 mpg highway
2009 Accord, 2.4L, auto: 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway
Yep, the new Accord beats the old one. Now, I don't know anything about Hondas, but I'd be willing to bet that the '09 Accord is both heavier and more powerful than the '94. Which is to say that the new Honda does more with less.
Now you can say you don't trust the EPA figures. Well, a car owner might occasionally fib a little. But the dynamometer tells no lies.
fueleconomy.gov
Let's take your '94 Accord, since that's the example you use. I think it's a credit to Honda engineering and quality control, as well as your own maintenance, that this car is still going strong after 14 years and almost 300,000 miles. But does it really get better gas mileage than a new Accord? It's easy to check it out: Go to the EPA website; they still post the mileage specs for 1994 model year vehicles:
1994 Accord, 2.2L, auto: 20 mpg city/27 mpg highway
2009 Accord, 2.4L, auto: 22 mpg city/30 mpg highway
Yep, the new Accord beats the old one. Now, I don't know anything about Hondas, but I'd be willing to bet that the '09 Accord is both heavier and more powerful than the '94. Which is to say that the new Honda does more with less.
Now you can say you don't trust the EPA figures. Well, a car owner might occasionally fib a little. But the dynamometer tells no lies.
fueleconomy.gov
Well the way they figure fuel economy now is probably different and the actual fuel mileage is probably worse.If you take a 350 Chevy motor,and a 454 Chevy motor,and put as much fuel into and out of the 350 Chevy motor with say a 4 barrel off of a 454 on the 350,ported and polished aftermarket aluminum heads,big tube headers,bored out block and stroked crank,you can get a lot more horsepower out of the 350.However you are going to burn lots more gas too.About the only thing that makes more power and saves fuel is a turbo.There is a limit to what you can do with that,but I dont think anybody is even close to that limit except Volkswagen and some other foreign makes.America is the land of the stupid,where they sell you a piece of plastic for $40,000.00 and even though its better than it was,not near as good as it could be for less money.
Every invention thats been put on a motor except the turbo and the smog stuff was invented before 1949.Fuel injection,supercharger,headers,lightweight casting,porting and polishing,hard metal rings,valves all of that was in the late 40s early 50s.It was 1985 I think before General Motors went to high nickel content blocks.Your"new"technology theory is wrong.Technology exists for big money to make profit off of you,not to help you out most of the time.If technology helps you out,its an accident on the way to making big money profit.I dont know if thats wrong,but its not the rosy picture you seem to think it is.
Every invention thats been put on a motor except the turbo and the smog stuff was invented before 1949.Fuel injection,supercharger,headers,lightweight casting,porting and polishing,hard metal rings,valves all of that was in the late 40s early 50s.It was 1985 I think before General Motors went to high nickel content blocks.Your"new"technology theory is wrong.Technology exists for big money to make profit off of you,not to help you out most of the time.If technology helps you out,its an accident on the way to making big money profit.I dont know if thats wrong,but its not the rosy picture you seem to think it is.
MarkB_MI
Well-known Member
- Location
- Motown USA
T40,
As someone who works in the auto industry, I don't think I'd use the word "rosy". But I'll stick to my position that today's cars are more efficient and generally better in every way than those produced in earlier decades. They're faster, safer, more comfortable and certainly more reliable. Of course they are also more expensive and complex; that's the way things go.
I was a bit surprised that you used the venerable GM small block and big block engines as examples of fuel efficiency. GM replaced these dinosaurs years ago with more modern engines that deliver the power and efficiency demanded by customers and EPA regulations. And although you can argue that the old cast iron engines were better than the plastic and aluminum of today, it's the new engines that carry 100,000 mile powertrain warranties.
Yes it's true that many technologies were first developed years ago, Using fuel injection as an example, it's been around since the thirties. But it took technology and demand to bring it to the mass marketplace. Techology in the form of cheap and powerful microprocessors; demand from both customers and federal efficiency/emissions regulations.
Not that it's really relevant, but it is not true that turbocharging miraculously increases both power and efficiency. If it did, every new car on the road would be turbocharged. Turbocharging increases the effective displacement of an engine by pumping more air through it. But the engine's compression ratio must generally be reduced to allow turbocharging. And compression ratio is the single most important factor for power and efficiency in an internal combustion engine.
As someone who works in the auto industry, I don't think I'd use the word "rosy". But I'll stick to my position that today's cars are more efficient and generally better in every way than those produced in earlier decades. They're faster, safer, more comfortable and certainly more reliable. Of course they are also more expensive and complex; that's the way things go.
I was a bit surprised that you used the venerable GM small block and big block engines as examples of fuel efficiency. GM replaced these dinosaurs years ago with more modern engines that deliver the power and efficiency demanded by customers and EPA regulations. And although you can argue that the old cast iron engines were better than the plastic and aluminum of today, it's the new engines that carry 100,000 mile powertrain warranties.
Yes it's true that many technologies were first developed years ago, Using fuel injection as an example, it's been around since the thirties. But it took technology and demand to bring it to the mass marketplace. Techology in the form of cheap and powerful microprocessors; demand from both customers and federal efficiency/emissions regulations.
Not that it's really relevant, but it is not true that turbocharging miraculously increases both power and efficiency. If it did, every new car on the road would be turbocharged. Turbocharging increases the effective displacement of an engine by pumping more air through it. But the engine's compression ratio must generally be reduced to allow turbocharging. And compression ratio is the single most important factor for power and efficiency in an internal combustion engine.
cannonball
Member
my 1997 park avenue averaged 32 miles per gal for a 2000 mile trip and guess what that is a v6..so honda is really done good huh.......
Ed, you and I don"t live where the ice is supposedly melting, so we can"t say first hand. All I know is I can find sat pics allegedly taken at the same time from the same source and one say the ice is melting, another says the ice is gaining. I know the past 3 or 4 years have been a lot cooler and wetter than the 5-6 years before that. Right now it"s way cooler than normal.
Since one group want"s me and my co-workers here the United States (soon to be) Socialist Workers Paradise to gut whats left of our economy and turn into a 3rd world country and the other doesn"t, I"ll believe the ones that AREN"T trying to take all my money!
Since one group want"s me and my co-workers here the United States (soon to be) Socialist Workers Paradise to gut whats left of our economy and turn into a 3rd world country and the other doesn"t, I"ll believe the ones that AREN"T trying to take all my money!
You seem to be brainwashed more than you actually know what you are talking about.Nobodys wages have gone up to justify the price of the new cars.Since you are in the business,clouds your perspective to where all you are going to do is make us mad rather than give relevant info.The reason for not turbo charging is to save dollars for car companies not build more efficient engines.Period.
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Isn't it the same thing when you borrow from a Bank? Or do you set the conditions.?
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
Funny, that Pravda thing you mentioned.
When Bush was in the WEhite House, you couldn't beli9eve them because they were anti-government. Now you can't believe them because they're government-controlled like Pravda.
It's NOT Big Government that we have to beware of; it's Big MONEY, who buys the government no matter WHICH party is in power. Except for GM and Chrysler, who got the government bailout money?? BIG MONEY...banks, AIG, Wall Street brokerages. Big Money looted your 401(k), then they looted your government treasury...and now they're looting the auto companies, about to sell off the assets that actually produce a product, while sticking government [taxpayers] with the pension obligations and other messes.
And they use the press to get us bickering with one another about which political party did the damages. FOLLOW THE MONEY...it's the banks and investment firsm that are ruining this country.
When Bush was in the WEhite House, you couldn't beli9eve them because they were anti-government. Now you can't believe them because they're government-controlled like Pravda.
It's NOT Big Government that we have to beware of; it's Big MONEY, who buys the government no matter WHICH party is in power. Except for GM and Chrysler, who got the government bailout money?? BIG MONEY...banks, AIG, Wall Street brokerages. Big Money looted your 401(k), then they looted your government treasury...and now they're looting the auto companies, about to sell off the assets that actually produce a product, while sticking government [taxpayers] with the pension obligations and other messes.
And they use the press to get us bickering with one another about which political party did the damages. FOLLOW THE MONEY...it's the banks and investment firsm that are ruining this country.
The reason I don't like what I see in the newapapers is the promotion and FULL support of SOCIALISM. IS'nt it obvious, the agenda being pushed? I'll agree with you on the big money thing. Their tenacles are wrapped up all through government at all levels. Like I said, they got us, it does'nt look good.
Jack
Jack
Anonymous-0
Well-known Member
If the Govt. is lending all these billions they are going to dictate what vehicles to be built in view of global warning commitments and to get away from reliance on foreign oil.The lender sets the conditions hence the car companies in the hip pocket, they nearly own them.
I see what you are saying. But, surely you see what a bad deal this is. Building vehicles in view of the global warming scam. Do you honestly believe that RedChina is going to cut back on their emmisions? How are we getting away from foreign oil dependence? Our government is sure not promoting we tap and use our OWN resorces. I guess you could say we'll cut our "dependance" when gas is so exspensive we can't afford to drive to the corner store.
Jack
Jack
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