O/T Pole barn poles

I have seen advertisements about some type of short post that you put in the ground for pole barns. It is either fiberglass or plastic, and you attach 3 2x6's to it for the poles. The plastic part is in the ground and the wood is all above ground, therefore elimating the pole from rotting off. I can't find it now, when I want some info. Anybody seen these or know who makes them? Can't remember if it was in a farm magazine or newspaper. Thanks.

If you're planning to get a building permit, be sure to ask the building inspector if they accept them- Many building inspectors will reject anything that they are not familiar with.

If you're bootlegging it without a permit, good for you. I'm finding that dealing with the bureaucracy is getting more and more frustrating, to the point that I seldom participate in the "official" process anymore.

I can't imagine why you'd want to unless it's to save money. A properly treated 6" X 6" southern yellow pine pole will last longer then most people live. When you see poles that rotted, it's usually because they were never correct for the job to start with. That's especially true now, since CCA is hard to find, and the more expensive ACQ/copper azole is being used. Many treated 6" X 6" SYP poles are .14 treated or less and for "ground contact" only, not suitable for below ground. I just built a new two story pole barn and special ordered .60 treated poles. I suspect they'll still be there 100 years from now.

In my area, building code requires the poles to be below the frost line, i.e. they have to be down five feet below grade. Also, the original advantage of pole type buildings was the vertical AND horizontal support solid poles give. Being firmly in the ground can negate the need for collar ties to keep rafters from coming down at peak, and pushing the sidewalls out.

I realize now that many just use pole construction because it's fast, use engineered trusses instead of rafters, and dig post holes much bigger than the poles and then fill later (leaving not very tight poles).

I just had Cleary Buildings put up a 42 x 60 barn.
Their posts are three 2 x 6 laminated. Theory being the treatment goes completely through a 2 x 6. Posts are guaranteed against rot off for 50 years.

Jdemaris, I live in western ny.Be truthful now,have you ever seen frost 5 feet down in your area?

Don, what are they getting for a 42x60 nowadays? What did you get for sidewalls and doors? Just wondering, thanks. Cleary is in our area. We'd like to put one up but when we think about what we want to do the size keeps growing.

I agree that laminated posts are probably stronger. But have you looked at a load at lowest or home cheapo? They run the whole stack through the treater and the stuff in the middle doesn't also look so green.

.60 ground burial posts are special order and get kinda expensive.

I'd still like to know what the equivalent of 3 laminated 2x6s would be in steel pipe or H beam standing up.

I've seen it plenty of times under driveways and roads, but not usually in areas that get snow cover. Back around 1979 or 1980, we had a snowless winter and a week of temps around Christmas that went to near 30 below every night. We had water lines freezing and busting all over the place (buried 4 feet deep).
But, to be technical, here in Otsego County, building code only requires 4' burial for poles and water lines (except under roads and drives). At both my other places, Jefferson County, NY and Hamilton County, NY, code requires 5'. Hamilton also requires roofs with 80 lb. snow load capacity.

The first I ever saw on the 3 2X6 lam post was almost 20 years ago had a warehouse built and they used that set up it is not 18 yr old and survied a couple of near tornado type storms,
have had no problem. I was told then that the treatment for the lower portion was better than you could get in a solid post for what ever that
meant. They did a novel deal at the top the truss sits down in between the two outside parts
of the post. Made it look real stout.

Yes I know about the 50 year warranty, but are the post manufacturer and Cleary still going to be in business in 50 years? Don't know. A lot of people bought fence posts with a 50 year warranty and the company is now out of business. And the building will never be the same if the posts did rot off in 30 years and needed replacing. Morton has a color warranty against fading on their steel, but when a friend called them for some fading, they told him that was "normal" fading and would do nothing about it. Warranty's sometime aren't so good. About codes and such, we live so far out in the country an inspector would get lost coming out here. Permits? What's that? I always have a tendency to "overbuild". So yes, I do know a little about construction. Just thought the fiberglass, or plastic post in the ground sounded like a good thing. Just wish I had the info now that we are thinking of building. Helped my stepson and his wife build a house in the winter of '08. The electrical inspector showed up when we started, came and looked over the rough-in pretty close before we started drywalling. When he came to do the final inspection, he pulled off ONE outlet cover, liked what he saw and didn't look at anything else. Guess he figured we wouldn't cut any corners, and we didn't.

Most of my barns have eastern red cedar poles. Some of them have been in the ground since the late 1940s and solid as a rock, except for one thats on an exposed windward side outside wall. It rotted off, I set a piece of telephone pole behind it and bolted it in place. Two barns have formed concrete pillars 24x24 with 24 inches above the frost line and 24 inches below. They used untreated 6x6 red oak posts sitting on tomp

think our code is around 42" deep with 55 pound snow load.Snow makes a big difference on the frost line.had to dig a grave for the neighbors dog one feb. was around 0°,dug down through a foot of snow and the ground wasnt even frozen

FBI use that system of concrete stub posts with the laminated posts bolted to them. I think other builders have the system available too.

My FBI building was built last march using them and the building withstood a few 80 MPH winds when A neighbors new building blew up in the same wind storm. I have never seen that kind of non-tornado destruction.
FBI Buildings

Problem is with most building codes is that the engineers submit thier version to the politicians who have to argue about it for a while before passing the dumbest rules possible for an ignorant commitee to agree on.
Have you been trying to keep up with the electrical code? it changes every 10 minutes.
But Foundations here in dallas are a joke.
Politicians thought it would restrict building if they were to require real foundations.
Thats why the house leveling and foundation repair bussines is a multimillion dollar gig.

This area is covered with 1 to 40 feet of expansive clay which if you get below the water table stays pretty stable. 2 problems. The water table varies from place to place and by the seasons. Mid August here you can dig down 6 feet and it will be bone dry. You can't drive a ground rod deep enough to make an electric fence work.

I read some University of manitoba canada articles about drilling rebar thru your poles before setting them in concrete to keep the ploe from being pulled out by the wind.

Perma-Column is but one company offering pole piers.

Several of the major building manufacturers have gone to similar products.

Perma Column

bc,
I gave just short of $20,000 for my 42x60x12.
It was discounted some for winter build.
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Try this picture thing again.
Untitled URL Link

I also should add. We had some big wind for about 12 hours about 2 weeks after it was completed and no damage whatsoever! I had the roof screwed down instead of nails.