(800) 853-2651
SHOP NOW

O/T stupid engineering

N

Nancy Howell

Well-known Member
I have 96 chevy 2500 with a burned out headlight. Stopped at an auto parts to get a new one. Older gent (actually knowledgeable) looked it up on the computer, but didn"t like what he saw and wanted to see the truck.

After looking at the truck, came back in and the computer said a sealed beam, but the truck has halogen lights. I got the owner"s manual and the pictures in the owner"s manual show a sealed beam and the part number listed in the owner"s manual shows a sealed beam.

Stuuuuuppppiddd! Hey, it gets worse.

He came back out and looked at the truck again. He said "I was going to change it for you, but it looks like you have to pull the grill to get to the lights.

Called my mechanic today and guess what, he"s right. You have to pull the grill off the truck to get to the headlights to change the bulb.

STUPID! At least he warned me not to touch the new halogen light with my bare hands because the oil from your skin would make it blow in a few hours. You can bet I"ll replace every bulb once I get the grill off.
 
My sympathies. Headlite changing on these modern rigs can be a huge pain in the rear. Much worse than you might think.
 
Yup, my cousin paid a Chevy garage About $250 to replace a headlight in a Blazer or Trail Blazer last month. They had to pull the grill, took an afternoon.

I had to replace a front park/turn assembly in my '98 F-150. Took me less than ten minutes from start to finish.

Gerald J.
 
Several years ago my nephew had bought a Chevy truck about the same age as yours. He bought some oil and an oil filter from NAPA and came out to have it changed. He dropped the oil and then looked at the filter and the one they had given him was different than what was on the truck. Turns out the parts men were right, but it was either a very early build or a very late build of a model year and he had a "leftover" or a "premature" engine in his truck. No big deal, I guess, but he had to make another trip into town to get the right oil filter.
I guess the parts book was right, but the truck was wrong.
 
And a lot of the late model GM trucks have at least one of the driving lights that are not working.
 
And it wasn't just GM. Had a 97 Toyota Tacoma and had to pull the grill on it also to change the light. Just another way to try and prevent you from working on it so you will keep going back to the dealer. Nothing money won't take care of.
 
Last fall, I had a similar problem with a '98 Sebring, I don't get that, you need enough room to twist and pull it out, not sure, was for an inlaw, said take er to the shop, not an easy one, someone overlooked or just said the heck with it when this one was designed. Taking a grill off to get to a headlight.....
 
The good news is that GM did change that design. It takes about 10 minutes or less to change the bulbs on my 2001.
 
just like our old 96 grand am. had to take the motor mount off and put a cherry picker on to change the serpentine belt. WTF?
 
But according to that arogant pr!ck on the Chevy truck ads,they're better because they don't have a "man step" or a heated steering wheel and they get two more miles per gallon. I wouldn't buy a new Chevy JUST BECAUSE of that guy.
 
Darling you are always welcome to use my truck if you need to.

<a href="http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/jameslloydhowell/John%20Deere%20Equipment/Flat%20Spokes/?action=view¤t=IMG_1566.jpg" target="_blank">
IMG_1566.jpg" width="520" height="420" border="0" alt="Photobucket
</a>

At least if it is not raining...
 
Takes about a minute on my 2003. Pull a couple of pins and the entire assembly lifts out.
Odds are the corporate "bean counters" decided it was 2 cents per vehicle cheaper to make the lights inaccessible.
 
I forgot to add - my truck has an aftermarket grill guard. How much do you want to bet we can"t get the grill off without taking the grill guard off, too.

I will spend at least half a day doing what should take 10 minutes instead of doing something productive at the farm.

I can"t even get the new bulbs because until I get the old ones out, I don"t know which one to get!!!!
 
Halogen lamps can be sealed beam. They aren't exclusive of one another.

Removing the grill, or a portion of the grill, is common for headlight replacement. It's not particularly difficult.

With all sealed beam lamps, halogen or incadescent, you've also got to remove the retaining ring that holds the lamp in the socket.
 
I think all engineer's be required to work on a combine in the field! Sorry Nancy not a truck but this just came to mind!
have a great day
Ron
 
You have after market lights When you change them to the sealed beam you will loose a lot of light out front. So decide which you like before changing. Very good light or easy to install.
Walt
 
Had a Lesabre in the shop here and they used different style rotors according to wheel size.
Well guess what. This one had one of each size on it !
 
You might try Jiffy Lube. Around here, they change $19.95 to change headlights including teh bulb.
 
My favorite wife, Nancy, is the darling I'm referring to.

I would say that I have a favorite wife and a former wife, but the last time I mentioned my former wife...

Everyone might want to step back away a few steps from me...

The the good book was thrown at me!
 







Don't be silly,Nancy! I've replaced a ton of these.Takes all but 2 minutes!Leave the grille in.The only thing that might be in the way is your AFTERMARKET grille guard(not GM's fault).

Here's the procedure(although lengthy):

COMPOSITE HEADLAMP BULB REPLACEMENT

REMOVE OR DISCONNECT



Two long screws from the top of the radiator support (Figure 4).
Pull the headlamp assembly forward.
Electrical connector from the burned out bulb assembly.

REVERSE PROCEDURE

Final step,find a different mechanic!
 
Nancy, I'd run it by your friendly body shop guy and get a second opinion. At least you know you are talking to someone who has removed and reinstalled dozens.

Gordo
 
Had a 94 for 13 years, no problem, have a 99 GMC, no problem. I really think you need another mechanic. It isn't that hard. And halogen sealed beams are common.
 
I didn"t think it was that hard on my 1998 1500. Took maybe 20 minutes. 2 screws for the side marker lights to get the screws behind them, then about 8 screws across the front. I"m going from memory here, so don"t quote me!
 
Jeeze, and to think I blew a gasket back the first time I went to change an old rectangular sealed beam on Mom's Olds Delta 88 and found out that I had to go buy a Torx screwdriver (who knew such a thing even existed?) to remove the chromed ring around it. $3 screwdriver to change a $4.50 bulb. (This was a while ago.) I called GM customer service that day and let them know what I thought of that piece of engineering.
 
My mechanic has a 96 chevy truck like mine, so I"m pretty sure he knows.

I"m hoping I can get the grill off without having to remove the aftermarket grill guard.
 
If that's a website with instructions, please re-post. I'll be glad to take a look.

The headlights pictured and procedure shown in my owner's manual where completely different from what is on the truck. The owner's manual showed two sealed beams about 5 x 7 (guessing). The headlights on my truck are one unit, long and narrow - 4 x 10, again, I'm guessing.
 
Try replacing the battery in a Dodge Stratus - you'll wonder WTH they were smoking when they dreamed up that procedure. It involves removing a front tire and the inner fender well - imagine how that's going to work in ten years - if the car lasts that long.
 
Funny you should mention . . . I happen to have one of those, an '04, that I'm lookin' at out the back window just this minute. I have scouted (in a cursory way, no real effort) a coupla times looking for the panel in the wheel well that will give me access to it like the picture in the owner's manual shows. I still look every now and then hoping it will one day reveal itself to me.

The only time I've ever actually laid eyes on the battery in it was after removing all the screws and body pins to change the left headlight. With the headlight housing out, one can see it clearly . . . WAY down in there!
 
God created engineers to help Satan. He didn't figure one Prince of Darkness could bring enough evil and heartache into the world so, He gave us engineers. JMHO
 
well nanner, there were 2 headlamp types available on the 96, sealed beam and composite. you gots the composite. to get the headlamps out, you do need to r+i the grille to get the capsules out. book time is .4 hr to r+i grille. if i remember you need either a t-15 or t-20 torx bit to get the grille out. (no phillips screws) you should be able to get the grille forward enough with the grille guard on it. use a clean paper towel (rhymes with howell) when handling the bulb. be careful the headlamps are 131.32 if you break one.
or better yet, stop over and i will change em for ya...free of charge!!!!!! (we do accept home made apple pie or peach cobbler as a tip!!)
poke here
 
Its "bean-counter engineering", Nancy.

If they make it easy, many will do it themselves- so they get to do a $25 job about 20% of the time.

But make it difficult, you not only get more $$ per job, but many more jobs, because the DIYers throw up their hands and take it in. Now, they get to do a $100 job 75% of the time.

Stupid like a fox.
 
Thanks for the informaion.

I hope you are joking about the $131.32 price.

Only one kind of pie for barter?

There are only two kinds of pie that I like - cold pie and hot pie.
 
james, the headlamp is 131.32 new from gm. pecan pie is good too, home made cookies, we had one customer make us chicken and sausage jambalaya!!!! woo hoo that was gooooood!!!!!
even punkin pie is good too, but we'd need turkey,mashed taters, cranberrys, stuffing, sweet taters too!!!! dang when do we eat!!!!!
 
nope born here in illinois. i hear texas is dang near big as illinois, bout closest i got to texas was down in arkansas, i clumb up a tree whilst down there, looked west and squinted real good, i think i might a seen texas, aint sure tho.
 
Forgot to ask in the previous post.

What is a t-15 and/or t-20 wrench?

Guessing that r+i means "remove and install" grill.
 
Cadillac made a model in the 60's that in order to replace the tail lights you had to remove the bumper -in some Corvette models you had to drill a hole in the fender well to repalace the rear spark plug...so I guess anythings possible..Charles
 
Well, if it weren't so far, I'd take you up on that, but no pie. I've never baked a pie from scratch, but I do fix a pretty dadgum good pot roast, with taters, gravy and green beans. One of James' favorites. We generally wash it down with home brewed tea sweetened with honey and follow it with any flavor of Blue Bell ice cream. I gotta quit, I'm making myself hungry.

Thanks for the info.
 
Yes, you can change them without taking out the grille! I have a 96 heavy 1/2 ton, and I have done both sides. You have to do as bradk said. It is hard to explain, but not that difficult once you understand how it works. Greg
 
After reading all these posts i think i know why there are a lot of late model GMC/CHEV pickups running around with 1 light not working. Far more than others.Must be hard to change-expensive/or status identy.
 
After reading all these posts i think i know why there are a lot of late model GMC/CHEV pickups running around with 1 light not working. Far more than others.Must be hard to change-expensive/or status identy.
 
(quoted from post at 14:55:43 04/07/09) After reading all these posts i think i know why there are a lot of late model GMC/CHEV pickups running around with 1 light not working. Far more than others.Must be hard to change-expensive/or status identy.
Click to expand...

That is the daytime running lights on the 99-02ish trucks.

I was told it was because they run the high beam bulb at a lower voltage, but I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that.
 
Must not have much that's more than 20-25 years old then-

A T-15 is a size of Torx wrench. They vary in size, but it's handy to have a full set. Atleast one that goes from T10 to T25. Use them all the time at work.

They also come in different configurations. They can come like a screwdriver, or an allen wrench for starters. I prefer the screwdriver handle.

Donovan from Wisconsin
 
Today as I was standing in line at Subway here at the college, three students were talking about cyberbullying.

During my lunch hour is one time I take the opportunity to visit the YT forum and catch up on what is going on.

Since the term cyberbullying is new terminology to me, I decided to do a little research and see what it means.

[b:654c4848f0]"Cyberbullying involves the use of information and communication technologies to support deliberate, repeated, and hostile behaviour by an individual or group, that is intended to harm others."[/b:654c4848f0]

I remember one of the students mentioning that this type of person usually relies on remaining incognito.

Now I have another unfamiliar word to look up.

[b:654c4848f0]"Incognito means having one's identity concealed, as under an assumed name, especially to avoid notice or formal attentions."[/b:654c4848f0]

Another student made the remark that sometimes a person like this will use two or even three assumed names to disguise their appearance to create the impression of being somebody or something else.

Now this is where I really started seriously paying attention to their public conversation.

One of the student's said that one of the best ways to determine if someone is using several assumed names is to research the ISP address they are using.

This young man must know his stuff; he said no matter what assumed name one uses, there ISP address does not change.

This reminded me of something that I heard many years ago about the devil masquerading himself and that his servants also masquerade themselves. In the end they will all get what they deserve.

The owners of this web site have posted some guidelines for guests on their website.

[b:654c4848f0]"<big>No</big> politics, religious discussions or topics that contain bigotry of any kind."[/b:654c4848f0]

Yet another word to look up to make sure I know the web masters intent.

[b:654c4848f0]"A bigot is a person who is intolerant of or takes offence to the opinions, lifestyles or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding attitude or mindset.[/b:654c4848f0]

As their guest here on their YT website, I agree with them that these usually result in unkind words and take away from the friendly, helpful nature of this antique tractor community.

It is time for me to continue to be friendly and helpful within this antique tractor community and turn the other cheek.

I will do good to those who hate me, bless those who curse me, pray for those who mistreat me, and forgive them.
 
I have said it in the past and will say it agin. The people/person who designs a machine should say after 2 years be made to repair the same machine. If it was done that way the way things are designed would change to be more user friendly
Hobby farm
 
That's why I buy Toyotas. The light bulbs don't burn out. I have three Toyota Trucks ranging in age from 2 to 16 years, one with 350+thousand miles. None of them has ever burned out a light bulb. Lots of night driving, too. A friend of mine who owns a Corolla said: "How do they do it? The light bulbs don't even burn out". I read all these posts about "Buy American" and laugh all the way to the bank. Then I go home and laugh some more because their truck was made in Canada or Mexico or God knows where and mine were made right here in the good old USA.
 
If you wuz up in a tree in OurKansas.....er ah I mean Arkansas and looked west, you didn't see Texas but you did see Oklahoma. BTW, I reckon you do know why Texas doesn't fall off into the Gulf Of Mexico don't 'ya? Cuz Oklahoma sucks and keeps us in place!
BTW, I think Texas may have a couple of extra square miles on Illinois. I'm down here on the south end and the Howell's are up near the north end (about 100 miles south of that sucky state) and it's a 500 mile drive to their place.
I remember my first drive from Southern California to the Dallas area back in the 70's. We planned a 3 day trip and we got to Texas mid day on day 2, I couldn't believe half the trip was just in one state. And now I'm another days drive from there and still in Texas.
 
(quoted from post at 11:49:49 04/07/09) Darling you are always welcome to use my truck if you need to.

&lt;a href="http://s200.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/jameslloydhowell/John%20Deere%20Equipment/Flat%20Spokes/?action=view¤t=IMG_1566.jpg" target="_blank"&gt;&lt;img src="http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa5/jameslloydhowell/John%20Deere%20Equipment/Flat%20Spokes/IMG_1566.jpg" width="520" height="420" border="0" alt="Photobucket"&gt;&lt;/a&gt;

At least if it is not raining...
Click to expand...
hat brings back some memories, but mine was a long bed.
 
Got a 1994 Chev 1/2 2 wheel drive. Just turned over 90,000 and I have never changed a bulb of any kind. And it is driven on all kinds of roads. So I think GM did something right and I don't have to feed it rice either.
 
So how many of them have rusted in half or don't you drive them in the winter. Toyota was involved in so MANY law suits about that they changed there frame design.
 
Two Tacomas, virtually no rust and a Tundra. Samo, Samo. Interstate Highway travel between Maine and Wisconsin. 60,000 miles per year. Have you ever been in Maine or Wisconsin in the winter? I like the new Tundra. New, HA, Ha it just rolled over 200k. Just a twist of the key, it does the rest itself. Spark plugs? Replace every 120,000 miles. Mobil I 5w30 oil every 5,000. Not a whimper or a whine and best of all.....it's quiet, I mean quiet. I can't stand a noisy truck and DODGE? They insisted on making as much NOISE as they legally could with that Cummins. It makes more noise than a Peterbuilt with a Cat under the hood. They knew that "Their Buyer" would like it that way. Well, I'm not one of "Their Buyers". Evidently a lot of people aren't either because they're about to go out of business. You're living the "Good life of 20 years ago" aren't you? Oh, by the way, I like the idea of getting 20-21 mpg on regular. Heh, Heh. Once again, "I'm laughing all the way to the bank, but you're welcome to those "Domestic Trucks".
 
I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Auto design is driven by what sells, period. When new car buyers start selecting cars based on how easy they are to maintain, then the automakers will move ease of maintenance further up their list of priorities. Until then, ease of maintenance is low on the list of priorities.

The engineers have nothing to do with it. All designs, whether its a car, a toaster, an aircraft, or a spacecraft (which is what I do for a living) must stay within a set of design constraints. When things like styling, cost, fuel economy, etc., take precedence over ease of maintenance, of course design decisions will be made where maintenance will take a back seat.

Think about it. What percentage of new car buyers worry about how hard a car is to fix when making a purchasing decision. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that the majority of new car buyers could care less about repair costs, particularly with the popularity of extended warranties. I think most people who buy a new car never keep it long enough to really worry about fixing anything.

I've seen my share of overly hard things to fix, particularly since I do almost all of my own repairs, even major stuff (except for what's covered by the warranty). If you really want to point fingers, point them at the buying public who don't care how hard something is to fix. The automakers are simply responding to what the public wants.

No, I don't have anything to do with any of the auto companies. I just get tired of people constantly wanting to "blame the engineers" or "blame the auto companies" when its the buying public and the government regulators who actually drive the design decisions.

The idea that automakers deliberately make repairs difficult in order to make money for their dealers is patent nonsense. The whole idea is to arrive at the optimum point between production cost and product longevity. It wouldn't be hard to make a car that would last a million miles (over the road trucks do it all the time), but nobody would be willing to pay for it.

Time to get off my soapbox.

Keith
 
Mathew 19,9

9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Notice the word "except"
 
It appears she was at a parts store. The person who helped her is not a mechanic, just a sales person. While newer names in the auto parts store business are offering free installation of certain items, those individuals really are not qualified/equiped to do so. Some of the traditional parts places still do not install parts (many reasons). The salesperson doing so could get his butt in trouble. Usually a quick pop out and pop in under 1 minute job is overlooked, but all it takes is to scratch the wrong customer's car or a shop account owner to catch you installing and the consequences rain down for the whole location...

The guy may have even knew what he was doing but being punched in on his work grounds he was not allowed to do it.



karl f

"ASE Certified" parts specialist
 
(quoted from post at 17:02:22 04/07/09) That's why I buy Toyotas. The light bulbs don't burn out. I have three Toyota Trucks ranging in age from 2 to 16 years, one with 350+thousand miles. None of them has ever burned out a light bulb. Lots of night driving, too. A friend of mine who owns a Corolla said: "How do they do it? The light bulbs don't even burn out". I read all these posts about "Buy American" and laugh all the way to the bank. Then I go home and laugh some more because their truck was made in Canada or Mexico or God knows where and mine were made right here in the good old USA.
Click to expand...

You must not have the new TRD edition Tundra that requires the removal of two skidplates just to get at the oil filter, that is just shear brilliance. The glued together tailgate was a nice touch too, who needs welds?

Toyota did have a recall on their frames. They were buying back Tacoma's over it, it was a very real problem.

My Ford F-150 was built in Missouri and has cost me $0.30 in light bulbs in 4 years of ownership, the two for the license plate @ $0.15 each. Big deal, I can dig that kind of money up just about anywhere. I think I have put two bulbs on my '85 Ranger (built in Kentucky) after 9 years, a brake light and a license plate light, again it was chump change and stupid easy to do. Laugh all you want, the F-150 has been taking home the trophy for the highest domestic content for a couple years now.

Every time I see a new Tundra I get a chuckle that after the third try they finally got something that resembles a half ton... just in time to be too late for the party.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

3
Flat tire on my Dodge 3500
Replies
12
Views
1K
MARK ROBKE
M
F
67 Ford major 4000. 3cyc diesel part number/ power stee
Replies
9
Views
516
Destroked 450
Destroked 450
D
Continental f227 engine problems
Replies
7
Views
742
David Wight
D
Geo-TH,In
I heard a loud explosion yesterday
Replies
11
Views
868
Fixingfarmer
Fixingfarmer
Al L. in Wisc.
Allis Chalmers B 1 ?'s
Replies
3
Views
372
Al L. in Wisc.
Al L. in Wisc.
Tractor Parts Tractor Manuals

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Copyright © 1997-2024 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters
Website Accessibility Policy

Back
Top